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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Mar-03-10, 16:40
aj_cohn's Avatar
aj_cohn aj_cohn is offline
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Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 213/167/165 Male 65 in.
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Location: United States
Default Whole Foods’ new nutritional ratings system ignores meat eaters

Rather than print the blog entry and and the rabid responses from vegetarians, I'll just link to the post and let members decide if they want to enter the fray. I'm just going to point to Dr. Eades' post on evolutionary biology and be done with it.

http://www.livnaked.com/wheres-the-beef/
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Mar-03-10, 17:27
jschwab jschwab is offline
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Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/220/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches
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Well done. I looked at the brochures on healthy eating that WF publishes and they were not as bad as I thought.
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Mar-03-10, 17:38
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
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Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
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I happily boycott WF. How incredibly offensive to turn grocery shopping into a consumer destination experience in the first place.

I consider everyone who buys there, a bad guy in the battle between the haves and the have-nots.
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Mar-03-10, 17:53
jschwab jschwab is offline
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Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/220/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches
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That's a little harsh but true to a large extent. All the poor people just shop at natural food coops around here. I went to WF recently not because I wanted any food, mind you, just wanted their solid perfume. WF is obscene. A friend used to work there. He got fired for union organizing (lots of other supermarket chains are unionized and have better work conditions) and his friend got fired for putting out a bruised apple because the produce must be blemish-free. can you imagine the waste?
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Mar-03-10, 18:00
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Water Lily Water Lily is offline
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Posts: 742
 
Plan: Paleo
Stats: 198/186/140 Female 5'5"
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Progress: 21%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seejay
I happily boycott WF. How incredibly offensive to turn grocery shopping into a consumer destination experience in the first place.

I consider everyone who buys there, a bad guy in the battle between the haves and the have-nots.



Do you seriously think WalMart, Aldi, Costco, or Kroger are any better? Look at the junk they sell and push as healthy. They have an agenda, too: Keep those subsidized grains moving out of the store. Since their prices are lower than WF, they can market more "healthy" junk to poor people and struggling working-class families. WF can market their pricey food/agenda to others. It's all the same game. Retail is about marketing for profit, whether it's shoes or grapes, no retail business is immune, or they cease to exist.

Our own US government and 99% of the medical industry has a huge agenda and is pushing a near vegetarian/lowfat diet on us.

Short of growing my own veggies and raising livestock, I don't have very many choices if I want to stay healthy. I shop mostly at Farmer's Markets. But I also have to shop at WF, because my WF has grass fed meat and wild fish, unlike most supermarkets around here. We've made many many sacrifices in order to be able to buy healthy food. WF isn't perfect by a long shot. But they aren't any worse than all the others. It's all a racket.
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Mar-03-10, 18:06
Water Lily's Avatar
Water Lily Water Lily is offline
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Posts: 742
 
Plan: Paleo
Stats: 198/186/140 Female 5'5"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jschwab
That's a little harsh but true to a large extent. All the poor people just shop at natural food coops around here. I went to WF recently not because I wanted any food, mind you, just wanted their solid perfume. WF is obscene. A friend used to work there. He got fired for union organizing (lots of other supermarket chains are unionized and have better work conditions) and his friend got fired for putting out a bruised apple because the produce must be blemish-free. can you imagine the waste?


See, I don't see that at all at my WF or my natural food coop.

There are plenty of bruised apples at my WF and the produce is mostly local and far from perfect. They carry local grass fed meat and the man who owns the Ranch is in there several times a week to talk to the customers. The people who work at my WF enjoy working there. I've known most of them for 10 years. I talk to them all the time.

The poor people around here don't go to the Natural Food Coop as it is more expensive than the WF! They go to Aldi and Kroger and most of the food there is junk.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Mar-03-10, 18:34
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Seejay Seejay is offline
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Plan: Optimal Diet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Water Lily
Do you seriously think WalMart, Aldi, Costco, or Kroger are any better?
Not really, and I don't shop there either. But Costco is an interesting case because they DON"T have outrageous personal profits - the CEO limits his pay and pays employees better than average.
Quote:
Look at the junk they sell and push as healthy. They have an agenda, too: Keep those subsidized grains moving out of the store. Since their prices are lower than WF, they can market more "healthy" junk to poor people and struggling working-class families. WF can market their pricey food/agenda to others. It's all the same game. Retail is about marketing for profit, whether it's shoes or grapes, no retail business is immune, or they cease to exist.
Well that is one point of view. There do exist other retailers, who as well as making a living in profit, include other human values such as how they treat people. But these other kind of retailers never get hugely big - because the only way you can get hugely big is by being ruthless, taking more than your share. (my opinion)

Quote:
Our own US government and 99% of the medical industry has a huge agenda and is pushing a near vegetarian/lowfat diet on us.
It do seem that way.
Quote:
Short of growing my own veggies
Really easy in LC amounts - porch grow box, anyone?

Quote:
and raising livestock, I don't have very many choices if I want to stay healthy. I shop mostly at Farmer's Markets. But I also have to shop at WF, because my WF has grass fed meat and wild fish, unlike most supermarkets around here. We've made many many sacrifices in order to be able to buy healthy food.
There's US Wellness meats, mail-order. But I hear you - investing in healthy food is no where near convenient or cheap.

Quote:
WF isn't perfect by a long shot. But they aren't any worse than all the others. It's all a racket.
Oh, as this is hot air anyway, and since this is strictly opinion, I think I'll stick to, they ARE worse. Because they pretend to be concerned about anything other than profit, when they aren't. At least the Walmarts are frank about it - you want to shop for price and don't care about sources, they will give you price from any sources. A clean deal. They don't hire interior designers and have expensive lighting and events and promotions of Fuhrman and then pass all that on to customers.

It's fine to dismiss me as a crackpot on this one, I am okay with that.

I also disrespect Apple similarly is the leader of the robber-baron-haves against the have-nots, sucking up more and more of people's income who think they are joining the cool kids and doing more through technology but who really are devoting more of their life to screen time. The illusion of different apps but only one big app: suck resources to Apple.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Mar-03-10, 18:38
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jschwab
That's a little harsh but true to a large extent. All the poor people just shop at natural food coops around here. I went to WF recently not because I wanted any food, mind you, just wanted their solid perfume. WF is obscene. A friend used to work there. He got fired for union organizing (lots of other supermarket chains are unionized and have better work conditions) and his friend got fired for putting out a bruised apple because the produce must be blemish-free. can you imagine the waste?
Listening to the others, maybe yours and my Whole Food stores are exceptionally bad. I do get an obscene vibe from my local one.

Here in Oregon, in early June we have wonderful strawberries that are so tender they can't ship and people go nuts getting them fresh for about 3 weeks. Of the 7 grocery stores in my biking radius, WF was the only one who didn't carry local berries. Never did figure that one out. Even Trader Joe's managed to find some space near the beef from New Zealand...
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Mar-03-10, 18:53
jschwab jschwab is offline
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Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/220/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches
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Progress: 76%
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I think it does really come down to where you live. Around here the natural food coops are cheaper, cater to poor folks (Everybody seem to be using food stamps at mine although WIC is tougher - WIC food traditionally has not been high-quality enough to really justify having it at a natural food coop). They buy local, esp. investing in urban gardens greening the city and providing low income folks fresh produce. One coop nearby even has its own urban farm. We get our produce from a mile away from our house from a raised bed farmlet in one of the most violent sections of the city. It's true also we also live right next to Lancaster County, PA with fantastic local sustainable family farming that is just alot cheaper than in a lot of the country. If you are in Nebraska, you're up a creek and WF is it. Also, be sure your WF is part of the chain - there are Whole Foods markets that are not in the chain.
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Mar-03-10, 20:02
Water Lily's Avatar
Water Lily Water Lily is offline
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Plan: Paleo
Stats: 198/186/140 Female 5'5"
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My WF used to be a Farmer's Market until it was bought out by WF. Maybe that is why it's different.

I buy whatever I can from local farmers, but there aren't that many in my immediate area, and it would cost too much for me to drive 4-5 hours each way.

I guess I just seem to have a good WF, and when I read all the horrible comments about it, I just don't get it.

Let's face it, Big Agri has taken over our food supply, and we all have to do the best we can to find nourishing food. Every time we walk into a supermarket, whether it be a WF or another chain, we have to compromise our convictions a little. I guess the older I get, the more I am concerned about trying to stay healthy. If my WF were like some of the others mentioned, and didn't have local foods, I'd find somewhere else to shop. But what's my alternative? A supermarket with CAFO meat? One or two bunches of overpriced organic produce? Blech...
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, Mar-03-10, 22:24
jschwab jschwab is offline
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Posts: 6,378
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/220/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches
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Progress: 76%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Water Lily
My WF used to be a Farmer's Market until it was bought out by WF. Maybe that is why it's different.

I buy whatever I can from local farmers, but there aren't that many in my immediate area, and it would cost too much for me to drive 4-5 hours each way.

I guess I just seem to have a good WF, and when I read all the horrible comments about it, I just don't get it.

Let's face it, Big Agri has taken over our food supply, and we all have to do the best we can to find nourishing food. Every time we walk into a supermarket, whether it be a WF or another chain, we have to compromise our convictions a little. I guess the older I get, the more I am concerned about trying to stay healthy. If my WF were like some of the others mentioned, and didn't have local foods, I'd find somewhere else to shop. But what's my alternative? A supermarket with CAFO meat? One or two bunches of overpriced organic produce? Blech...


It depends on what is in your area, too. Things are changing in the other big chains, too, but there is just not the variety. Like, at an Acme maybe you can get local strawberries or organic spinach, but it's harder to get other things like all natural nontoxic shaving cream or really good meat or chocolate. We are just so lucky here that very thoughtful people created a real local economy for decent sustainable food that is affordable. It's miraculous, really.
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Mar-11-10, 08:53
angorabbit angorabbit is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 250/237.4/120 Female 65 inches
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Location: PA
Default

Quote:
Short of growing my own veggie and raising livestock, I don't have very many choices if I want to stay healthy. I shop mostly at Farmer's Markets. But I also have to shop at WF, because my WF has grass fed meat and wild fish, unlike most supermarkets around here.


Have you ever thought about finding a local farm in your area?

This is where the veg-heads get it wrong when they whine about antibiotics and hormones in beef (thus becoming veg-heads in the first place or being "forced" to shop at WF). Yes, FF is bad and they pump the cows full of stuff to get them up to weight quicker so they can meet demand but "organic" farming isn't that much better. The USDA standards for organic farming are inconsistent and in the crapper. Shopping at WF for "grass fed beef" doesn't mean anything. According to the USDA grass fed beef can be fed from stockpiled resources that can and may contain a significant amount of grain. Which means your happy grass fed cow could very well have seen the sun as often as a FF cow. The same goes for "free range" chicken. All free range means is that their feet touch the dirt.

If you really want to make a difference in your diet or make a statement about the state of corp farming then buy your meat local. If you're already shopping at farmer's markets ask if they grow livestock, you may be able to buy half a cow. (FH and I went in with my parents and his mother and we buy a half to split amongst ourselves)
Find a local butcher even, to purchase meat from. There are alternatives to supermarkets. I think that supermarkets are evil...lol they have replaced small, local markets to the point that people don't even think of using them anymore.
It becomes "oh no! WF doesn't have my uber-organic grass fed buffa-yak, I must find another WF!" Maybe the local butcher has your buffa-yak, sir...

Or you could do what i did: plant a garden and buy some chickens (you may be zoned for them). I buy my beef from the farm across the street and raw milk from the dairy farm down the road. My fruit comes from local orchards and berry farms. In the summer we buy cheese and pork from the Farmer's Market. It's a great set-up and you'll never run out of eggs again.

Call me again when you want to hear about the massive worm burden organic meat carries! Yum-- Taenia saginata!
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Mar-11-10, 12:04
RobLL RobLL is offline
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Shopping: one definition is taking advantage of what the various venders offer and at what price. Walmart grocery section has half a dozen things no one else carries. (their meat and veggies are higher in price, so not on my list). If we had a WF I probably would go their every week or two for certain things.
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  #14   ^
Old Fri, Mar-19-10, 09:34
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Merpig Merpig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seejay
I consider everyone who buys there, a bad guy in the battle between the haves and the have-nots.
Damn, I buy there - not all the time, but they offer some things I love that I can't find anywhere else.
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  #15   ^
Old Fri, Mar-19-10, 11:37
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Seejay Seejay is offline
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Oh I am sorry I said that, oh well. There are many shades of gray in between. Musta been a mood. I don't think you are a bad guy and I take it back.
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