Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low Carb Health & Technical Forums > Cholesterol, Heart Disease
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Thu, Jul-25-13, 21:51
zmktwzrd zmktwzrd is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 42
 
Plan: Ketogenic
Stats: 290/192/175 Male 5'11
BF:
Progress: 85%
Location: Central PA
Default How Long Till My Cardiovascular Risk Factors Show Improvement?

My wife and I are in a bitter fight about LCHF diets. She goes through the roof seeing me consume so much fat and especially when I encourage it for our kids.

The only way to "win" this important battle (for our kids sake) is for me to, in her words, "Go to the Doctor and get your blood tested and PROVE that your health markers are moving in the right direction"

In other words

1. Triglycerides decreasing
2. HDL Rising
3. LDL Declining (or particle size increasing, can they test this?)
3. Improving ratios (Triglycerides/HDL) or (LDL/HDL)

My blood pressure has always been good so I can's use that, and she concedes that the diet will reduce my glucose so that would prove nothing (to her).

I am ready to storm to the doctor tomorrow morning to do this! BUT, I don't want to jump the gun and do this too soon and "ruin it" with her saying "SEE I TOLD YOU SO!" So how long should I wait!?

I had my blood tested about 4 months ago & have been pretty strict low-carb and high fat since then and have lost about 15 pounds too.

My question is this, should the above tests show improvement at this point? Do these levels takes months or years to improve or do the improve quickly (days or weeks?).

Also, what are the specific readings on those tests that one can point to as scientific "proof" or "data" that indeed, the LCHF diet is REDUCING and not INCREASING my cardio risk?

How about inflammation markers? C-Reactive Protein etc.

Any advice here is very appreciated, for my kids sake I really want and need to provide good personally documented evidence that what I am saying is real and working (with tests that the the medical community would generally agree with)

Thank you!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Fri, Jul-26-13, 08:51
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,025
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
Default

For you I would give it another 3 months. The first 6 months while your body is adapting, fat in the bloodstream can go up and freak out people who think those numbers mean anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zmktwzrd
(with tests that the the medical community would generally agree with)
This is awkward when the medical community itself is arguing about the value of these numbers. Some say they should be treating "bad cholesterol" like a Lipitor commercial, some say that the markers have no good relation to disease and it's a bad thing to treat to those numbers. If your wife is sticking to what she hears in the mass media conventional wisdom, that reflects the current wisdom, and she will not hear the evidence on why it's wrong.

She may hit the roof but she's defending ignorant docs, like in the era when they didn't wash their hands between women in childbirth. How do you fight the "will not to believe" that doctors can be so wrong. .

I have family members like that too. It is more important to them to not be "different" from the popular culture.

You can eat well for yourself, but you both care about the kids. Maybe you can just embark on a long, long education campaign for the family.

For a fun article, google "mark sisson The look on the doctor's face was priceless" for a testimonial on eating more fat and less healthywholegrains.
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Fri, Jul-26-13, 09:55
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,842
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Not every low carber sees their total cholesterol drop. There are a few issues with that and some of them have to do with the test used. It is designed for people eating carbs and having rather high triglycerides. When triglycerides fall, which is a good thing, the LDL looks like it goes high, but it doesn't really.

Lots of articles and such in the thread linked in my signature.

Jimmy Moore has a new book out on Cholesterol. I haven't read it, but it might be a good place to start. Gary Taubes, William Davis (cardiologist), have written books that are good places to start educating yourself, and your wife, on why fat is not the culprit for heart disease, carbs are.

I think of them all, I'd recommend "Wheat Belly" the most.
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Fri, Jul-26-13, 09:58
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Read the stickies and some recent posts in the cholesterol forum.
http://forum.lowcarber.org/forumdisplay.php?f=48
I recently posted a CBN story...Forget Cholesterol, it's all about Iinflammation or read the Dr. Sinatra and Bowden new book, The Great Cholesterol Myth.
Usually the Trigs drop very quickly, and the HDL starts to rise very slowly. It is the LDL that can go in either direction, especially around the 3-6 moths mark on LC as Seejay explained. And as Nancy explained, the calculated number is then thrown off too.

I am suspicious of the value of CRP..it shows inflammation anywhere in the body and for us older folk, a little bursitis in a joint can mess up its ability show meaningful info about cardiac inflammation. You could have a coranary heart scan..but expensive.
This will sound somewhat sneaky but if you are in a state where you can order a basic cardiac blood draw yourself through the on-line lab services like Direct Labs, you will get the results in a few days. Nobody else will see them unless they turn out to be ones you want to share with your family or doctor.

Last edited by JEY100 : Fri, Jul-26-13 at 10:05.
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Sat, Jul-27-13, 13:37
zmktwzrd zmktwzrd is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 42
 
Plan: Ketogenic
Stats: 290/192/175 Male 5'11
BF:
Progress: 85%
Location: Central PA
Default

Thank you Janet.........Excellent advice and I loved the forum and video links!

In this case I feel the “means justifies the end” so I am indeed going to do the anonymous testing first. I am convinced I am right and I don’t want to lose this battle with bad timing or poor aim. If after a year I am still not seeing results I will have to reevaluate things. (Although the pounds are certainly flying off right now, hard to argue THAT one!).

As a side note, I do think there is one semi-valid argument from “the other side”. Specifically, that losing weight will improve your cardio risk factors NO MATTER HOW you do it. Basically they are trying to say that “what you are doing is long term unhealthy, but since one of the side effects from it is weight loss that yes, by default your short term cardio risk measurements will improve.” This could have been said about Fen-Phen too, we know long term it could kill you, but the short term weight loss seemingly improved risk factors (IE excess weight)....

I guess the point is that if we are really honest, there is not a lot of highly controlled long term studies. We know the diet (low carb) has been around for a long time, but are there actual studies that have tracked people on the diet for a long time?

I realize that someone has to go first, and this reminds me of the quote that “ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE THAT'S PROVEN TO WORK is called MEDICINE!”
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Sat, Jul-27-13, 18:51
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,025
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
Default

Don't forget there are also no controlled studies of the conventional higher carb diet either. Somehow because it's entrenched, people say the low carb has to have the studies, but higher carb doesn't?

Also risk factors are not the same as changing your real health. That would take measuring your actual arteries.
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Sun, Jul-28-13, 04:50
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Long term in diet studies is about a year. In the A to Z study, Believe Atkins had the most favorable changes in HDL and Trigs. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/581488_4. You can find many other articles about this study and an excellent video with Dr. Gardner going over the results.

Personal story only.....but two and half years on LC, my HDL is 102 and my Trigs 30. Last checked by Direct Labs in January, LabCorp put a note under the Trigs....ReTested to confirm that count was really that LOW

The basic Cardio test is about $29, but Direct Labs also offers the NMR LipoScience profile for $79, both cheaper than if I have the test run at doctors even factoring in insurance. This is not the time in your weight loss journey to have NMR done (Dr Westman recommends about 6 months after being weight stable for accurate results) but I have the basic test about every six months for other check-ups...Thinking of going on August 6th myself ...three years to the day I started Atkins. See if I can freak out the Lab Tech again or at least their computer that tries to catch way out of norm values.

Last edited by JEY100 : Sun, Jul-28-13 at 05:38.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:36.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.