How long did you try to post there before you gave up and came here?

Can I point out, though, that Keckwick never intended anyone to live on his diet or that level of calories forever?
Some low carbers may count calories to lose weight for a season, but I'd be willing to bet that not very many low carbers count them in maintenance let alone obsessively so to the point that they need to plan out their every bite on fitday or some similar program.



Then perhaps it's time you started your own?

I have nothing against Whoa182 personally, since I don't know him. I wouldn't want to live as he does, so I don't.

I think he's an example of what they call 'orthorexia', a staunch belief in one correct way of eating. He has found the truth, and believes it to be the one true way, and all else are mistaken. I sometimes wonder if he's proselytizing here partially to convince himself. Who knows?

Odd that someone in his 20's is so obsessed with living until 100. But if it makes him happy to think he won't age, and will live for a century, so what?

I would guess that most of us 'of a certain age' look back on what we KNEW to be TRUE in our 20's and cringe a bit. Many of those things we were SO FERVENT ABOUT in our 20's -- those TRUTHS -- turned out to be so much hooey. I'm embarrassed to remember what I KNEW when I was 20. But then again, no one could tell me anything then, either. I knew everything. So I give Whoa a pass for that.

Of course, Whoa won't know for sure if he's right for another 80 years or so. Maybe he'll be sitting around with other 90-year-old bony CRONies and laugh at us for not seeing the light. Or maybe not. Maybe this whole CR thing will go down in history as an embarrassment, sort of like Ponce de Leon's Fountain of Youth. The CRONies will have eaten like that for decades, professing to like it, for nothing. Or maybe not.

Personally, I don't care a whole lot one way or the other. Let him be.

I did not say to do it forever, and don't advocate it, I only do it a couple days of the week, and it is good for stalls as well, atkins said so himself.

My attitude would be the same, were it not for the damage he's done on the board. There were several posts in this thread that made reference to what he's done that were deleted for some reason, but he was responsible (in my eyes and the eyes of many others) for having a very, very valuable member of the community suspended and banned. Further, he does not provide any support in the real way that people on here need it, with advice about how to lose weight through carbohydrate restriction and support for the emotional and psychological issues related thereto. It is for those reasons that I find his posting to be destructive. Were the previous posts allowed to stand, the case would have been more strongly made, but they were not and I can't reiterate them for fear that this post would be deleted as well.

I'll just say that I was not the only one who made reference to the fact that losing that person was a major, major blow to the board, as she was one of the people whose posts had the most influence in helping me get myself to where I am (however far I may be from where I want to be). If he were contributing in a positive way in some other way besides CR advocacy, I'd be fine with it. But he's hasn't, and likely won't. He's had multiple flame wars that have had a negative effect on the board, has posted lots of data from scientific studies whose methodologies or results many find flawed, seems to have little or no understanding of low carb and offers no support to the people on here who really need help. Imo, that is a caustic brew.

I am all for being accepting of people with differing methodologies. I'm not a member of the low-carb-or-nothing club. I think that people can approach weightloss (which is what this board is all about) from a million different angles and have success. This is just what works for me. But I don't go to low-fat boards and post about low carb. My contributions would not be helpful. Can you do low fat and low carb? Sure. Is that what those people do? For the grand majority of people, no. When your contributions are off-point and often lead to interrelational strife among members of the board, you are harming, rather than helping, the community. He doesn't even say anything about using calorie counting as a way to break a stall. "Stalls" have nothing to do with his agenda. Weightloss, really, has nothing to do with his agenda. His agenda is increased longevity through calorie restriction (which, again, is not the same as carbohydrate restriction). As I said before, this doesn't mean that they're mutually exclusive. I could be a weightlifter that played baseball, but that doesn't mean that weightlifting=baseball. Just because two things are not incongrous does not mean that they're the same thing.

Note that I've never told anyone NOT to do CR. I've never even really said anything BAD about CR, other than to say that I don't buy in to it, or the studies they point to. I could well be wrong. My point is this: it doesn't matter whether or not it works, or whether it makes you live 200 years. My point is that Whoa's posts have been innapropriate, and the source of a harm for the board as a whole.

-j.

He kind of weirded me out, I put him on ignore.

I agree.

I mostly ignore him also, but have felt compelled on several occasions to correct some of the inaccuracies he's posted.

And that would be the main difference between calorie counting as it relates to people here and CR (which is for life).

I went to their website and instantly got a virus transmitted. Maybe it's coincidence or maybe the same malcontents from this site are plaguing that site. Someone secure in himself doesn't need to denigrate anyone else. I enjoy Whoa's posts. I wish I'd had his energy when I was that age. Insults only harm the one doing them.

I don't want to change the topic of this thread, so if anyone thinks we have a virus on our site, please report it in the comments box with all the details, or send me a PM. Everytime I investigate such reports, it turns out someome mis-configured their firewall settings, or had spyware/adware installed on their PC.

Wa'il

I know what you are saying, but I like to read the studies he posts. If it is seriously bothering so many folk, I would suggest using the ignore button.

Flame wars are a two man tango, it doesn't work if you don't respond.

From some of the studies he posts, it is obvious that he doesn't read them. Or at the very least, doesn't understand them; his latest post about low cholesterol on another thread is case in point. Not that he would deign to discuss them... He continues to bring up some mysterious data from the Framingham study to support low cholesterol that no one else can seem to find... Is this honest debate?



He is being called to back up his assertions and he fails miserably. This board is not a lectern for him to make his pronouncements unchallenged. What I believe is that Whoa is here to preach the CRONbie religion and has no interest in discussion/disagreement but rather blind acceptance, the mark of the True Believer (tm). That and he is evidently unprepared and unable to mount a credible defense of his opinions. Not that ANY of this has to do with LOW CARB DIET SUPPORT.



So quit arguing with me!

Kind regards

Actually, there is at least one yahoo group that is focused on CR. Whoa could post there if he is so inclined.

I enjoy the back-and-forthing that goes on in these threads, although I tend to side with mutant and those who argue against CRON.

I thought the analogy of a Christian going to a Muslim forum was a good one. Whoa thinks it's "silly" that the CR forum has rules and regs and restrictions to be followed, so he won't participate there. So he comes to a forum where the party being thrown is completely different and disrespects the members by saying he doesn't "need" to read a low-carb book. Yeah, I'd say that's arrogant.