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  #106   ^
Old Fri, Mar-21-03, 12:03
MomSharon's Avatar
MomSharon MomSharon is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 108
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 185.5/185.5/160 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Kansas
Thumbs up Exactly!

From Kingwood:
"If I do nothing, I can't be judged, right?.....I can't deny the psychological fact that people who live with perfectionism/procrastination as adults felt judged as children. As if love was measured depending on performance."

You hit the nail on the head for me! Excellent wording.

Sharon
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  #107   ^
Old Fri, Mar-21-03, 15:09
zandria72's Avatar
zandria72 zandria72 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,061
 
Plan: moderate - BFing
Stats: 247.5/195/150 Female 66 inches
BF:preg/curr/goal
Progress: 54%
Location: Muncie, IN
Default

Summeryet: Nowhere did I say that there was no such thing as self-sabotage. Never did I say that anyone's feelings were not valid. When I came into the thread, my impression was that "sabotage" was used simply to mean doing something that went against the weight loss effort. Anyone who starts eating in a way that causes them to gain weight after they have successfully lost some weight is in effect sabotaging themselves. My point was that it doesn't have to be a deep psychological issue. It can be physical or biochemical. When I was severely depressed, I had a major binging issue. Some antidepressants were (albeit temporarily) capable of halting the urge to binge. Clearly there was something biochemical going on. I also mentioned the effects that exercise had on me, both in terms of my appetite and my metabolism. When I couldn't exercise, those effects were lost, and I started gaining weight again. I also mentioned something that people don't seem to like to think about: that we have to deprive ourselves of things we'd like to eat in order to follow this diet--or any other. People should not feel guilty or bad because they fall off their diet and eat something they're not "supposed" to eat! People are programmed to want sweet things--this is a hard diet to attempt!

In summary, I don't doubt that people have issues holding them back from losing weight...but I also think that people regain weight for other reasons. And that was all I said.
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  #108   ^
Old Sun, Mar-23-03, 08:31
SummerYet's Avatar
SummerYet SummerYet is offline
Reinventing Myself
Posts: 11,768
 
Plan: Doctor's Plan
Stats: */*/* Female 5 ft 3 in
BF:
Progress: 77%
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
Default

Well I am glad that all of us have a place to express their opinion. That is what all "this" is about right? Thank you for clarifying...

~Michelle
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  #109   ^
Old Sun, Mar-23-03, 10:44
Kingwood Kingwood is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 150
 
Plan: Atkins/testing CAD
Stats: 198/184/145
BF:
Progress: 26%
Location: Kingwood
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A person's perspective is just that, that person's perspective. Here is mine...

We humans crave what we need for our survival, its the way nature created us. Therefore we don't crave sugar, we aren't programmed to want it for the simple reason we don't need it for our survival. I've certainly noticed that when I remove sugar from my diet I naturally begin to crave more natural foods. Is that because when I've overloaded my body with sugar that I can't hear the more subtle voices of my own body speaking to me? And when I remove sugar it silences that voice and allows the healthier voice, meant to help me survive be heard?

Deprivation is a word that is totally open to interpretation. What feels like deprivation to me won't necessarily mean the same thing to another person. One of the things that I have to look at in my journey to a better me is to redefine what deprivation is. To remove sugar from my diet for example, is that deprivation? Or is eating sugar actually depriving me? I'm beginning to think eating it is the real deprivation not the other way around. All I need to do is look at how I feel on Atkins versus not being and the answer to that is quite simple. Eating sugar deprives me in mind, body and spirit without a doubt.

Why then would I eat it or even think I want it? Because I've programmed myself to believe it serves me like any other addict believes their drug of choice serves them. When does an addict of alchohol or drugs succeed in staying clean and sober? When they finally get their heads and hearts around the fact that those things are poison for them, it hurts rather than serves them in the end. If they are only willing to give them up when they stop making them feel good, or tasting good they'd never get clean or sober. And the same is true for me.

And just like with other addictions, not using the drug of choice is only the start. Then the real work begins of coming to terms with why we did this to ourselves to begin with. Its time to connect the dots. To say, its not my fault I was depressed, or upset, or but I like it, or I have a chemical imbalance, or I have an injury so can't exercise are nothing more than excuses we've all used. None of those things in themselves has the power to actually put food in my mouth. Only I have that power, so its up to me.

And again as with other addictions, the sad fact remains that few will be willing to go to this length to get well to stay well. The majority will come up with excuses to at some point sabatoge their success. Some for just a day, once in a while, and others will do it so often they never reach their goal. Which one do I want to be? I won't do this program perfectly, but I do want to be honest with myself. As with any other addict I must look at what set me up to slip when I slipped. Undoubtedly it is for me something emotional, then wanting a release from that I think of things to comfort me, hopefully in time my thoughts will not go to food but that will be up to me. It will require reprogramming myself.
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  #110   ^
Old Sun, Mar-23-03, 16:42
zandria72's Avatar
zandria72 zandria72 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,061
 
Plan: moderate - BFing
Stats: 247.5/195/150 Female 66 inches
BF:preg/curr/goal
Progress: 54%
Location: Muncie, IN
Default

"We humans crave what we need for our survival, its the way nature created us. Therefore we don't crave sugar, we aren't programmed to want it for the simple reason we don't need it for our survival."

Not sugar exactly, no. But I thought it was common knowledge that humans craved sweet things. It once implied ripe, safe, calorie-dense food.

"Deprivation is a word that is totally open to interpretation. What feels like deprivation to me won't necessarily mean the same thing to another person. One of the things that I have to look at in my journey to a better me is to redefine what deprivation is. To remove sugar from my diet for example, is that deprivation?"

deprivation: the state of being deprived
deprive: to take something away from, to withhold something from

Everyone has to deprive his/herself of something to do this diet. For some, that's sugar. For others, it's bread or milk or french fries or whatever. If you didn't have to deprive yourself of something, it wouldn't be a change in diet for you! We wouldn't be here discussing this. We wouldn't need a support forum. You can attempt to reprogram your thinking, which seems to be what you're doing. You might be able to convince yourself that you aren't deprived. But I think it is about deprivation in the beginning, and that feeling may occasionally rear it's head for a lot of people.

OTOH, there are some people who just aren't into "sweets" and who can give up their remaining carbs (often bread or potatoes) without any problem. So maybe they don't see it as deprivation. Maybe they saw low-fat dieting more as deprivation.

"Why then would I eat it or even think I want it?"

Because you have always liked the way it tasted. You can make a psychological issue out of it, and that may very well serve you in your quest to be rid of it--more power to you! But you wouldn't eat it if you didn't like it.
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  #111   ^
Old Mon, Mar-24-03, 06:16
SummerYet's Avatar
SummerYet SummerYet is offline
Reinventing Myself
Posts: 11,768
 
Plan: Doctor's Plan
Stats: */*/* Female 5 ft 3 in
BF:
Progress: 77%
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
Default

Hi All-

Had a bad day yesterday. Have to think about whether is was "self sabatage" or not. It was my last day of induction. Weigh in was supposed to be today.

There was a reason behind it, I experienced a once in a lifetime thing yesterday, and the "feast" was part of the experience. I could have said no to the cheesecake or the apple pie, but I made a choice not to. For the most part I am OK with it. I refuse to beat myself up. Today is a new day, and I am back to "normal".

Self sabotage? Maybe...
Need to do some reflection? Yes...
Hating myself b/c of it? NO!....

~Michelle
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  #112   ^
Old Mon, Mar-24-03, 07:57
Kingwood Kingwood is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 150
 
Plan: Atkins/testing CAD
Stats: 198/184/145
BF:
Progress: 26%
Location: Kingwood
Default

I agree completely Michelle, there is no reason to beat yourself up. Its your body and you made a choice for yourself. You've also made the choice to get right back on track today too. That sounds like progress to me. As they say, seek progress not perfection.

I'm curious to know if you figured out what emotional need you were trying to meet by eating that food. It wasn't hunger for just food since you could have eaten other things to fill you up, so what was it that you were trying to fill since it wasn't your stomach?

And my other question is; did it work? Did that need get filled by eating those foods?
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  #113   ^
Old Mon, Mar-24-03, 15:00
Kingwood Kingwood is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 150
 
Plan: Atkins/testing CAD
Stats: 198/184/145
BF:
Progress: 26%
Location: Kingwood
Default

Just a quick note so you won't think I fell off the face of the earth. After posting this morning I got a call telling me my mom and stepdad were in a serious accident and it doesn't look good for either of them. Having lost 2 sisters this past year suddenly too my emotions have been through hell. I felt I was just beginning to get my wind back. Now this! I don't know how long I'll be gone but didn't want you to think I've given up. While I'm waiting for my husband to arrive so we can leave for my flight I thought I'd let you know where I'll be. It gives me something to do with my hands too, rather than eat.

Take good care of yourselves while I'm gone. The only thing I know this moment is that no food will help me deal with this. I can't think of anything that I could swallow that will silence these feelings.
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  #114   ^
Old Mon, Mar-24-03, 15:03
Pat S.'s Avatar
Pat S. Pat S. is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 362
 
Plan: shangri-la/lowcarb
Stats: 185/173/145 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 30%
Location: Oregon
Default

I thought I would jump in here I used food for Comfort I spent so much time in my life with problems that seemed to be out of my control. I am now learning to transfer my feelings from food to correcting my thinking about how much control I have over my life. I use to almost blank out when I had lost weight it was as if I didn't even think just start eating. I am hoping this will not come back and am working to make that not happen. Pat S
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  #115   ^
Old Mon, Mar-24-03, 15:06
MomSharon's Avatar
MomSharon MomSharon is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 108
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 185.5/185.5/160 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Kansas
Exclamation Kingwood

OMG. Our thoughts and prayers are with you.

Take care of yourself so you can make it through this. You will need all your strength and energy now.

Sharon
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  #116   ^
Old Mon, Mar-24-03, 17:56
LOL Mom LOL Mom is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 81
 
Plan: Zone/Atkins
Stats: 138/130/125
BF:?/20%/?
Progress: 62%
Location: Northern Wisconsin
Default Karen!

Are you, by any chance, a student of The Course In Miracles?
Your outlook certainly sounds like you are! Thanks for your wonderful insight!

Debbie
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  #117   ^
Old Tue, Mar-25-03, 18:05
SummerYet's Avatar
SummerYet SummerYet is offline
Reinventing Myself
Posts: 11,768
 
Plan: Doctor's Plan
Stats: */*/* Female 5 ft 3 in
BF:
Progress: 77%
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
Default

Hi All-

I don't know about this sabotage thing. I am so POed at my body, and for no good reason. I am using my "anger" to get my butt in gear (literally). I went grocery shopping today...no more excuses!! I havent even been on the scale yet...argh. I am starting to feel guilty b/c I am so used to induction I feel like everything else is "cheating" even if it is legal...does that make sense? Oh boy lol

~Michelle
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  #118   ^
Old Fri, Mar-28-03, 16:24
Suni Suni is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 118
 
Plan: Schwarzbein
Stats: 169/154/150
BF:
Progress: 79%
Location: Vancouver
Default Thank goodness I found you guys!

You know for the longest time I thought I was the only person, in the whole wide world, that self-sabotaged themselves. I hated and loathed myself for being "weak" and unable to attain my goal weight - which, wasn't all that much. But as soon as I'd get close, it was like another peson who lived inside me took over, and they sabotaged me. Two months ago I was 1.5 lbs. from my goal weight - the I began bingeing on chocolate. I ate two HUGE chocolate bars in two weeks - plus some other sweets. When my pants became tighter I got on the scale and sure enough I had put on 5+ pounds. But the really crazy thing, which I couldn't understand was, when I saw I was only 1.5 lbs. from my goal weight I was so estatic and happy - and if I felt this way, why did I do this to myself?
I began noticing I was self-sabotaging myself in other areas of my life, including work so I decided to get some counceling. I knew that my sabotaging had to do with self-esteem issues and now I am working on them. I read on another post (?) somebody recommend the book "The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem" and others say it has helped them too, so I've just loaned it from the library.
I discovered, through counceling, that I am a care taker - I take care of everybody - my family, my mother, my hubby, the people at work, and I do such a good job of it, that I don't have any care taking left over for me and I feel drained, then resentful that nobody does anything to take care of me - but would I let them? Probably not - being taken care of, to me, feels uncomfortable. Like Karen, I had to learn to "trust" (a big step for me) and relinquish some control and learn that the world will not fall apart if I'm not "taking care of" 24-7.
It is so comforting to know that there are "others" out there with the same problem. I was always so ashamed of myself and felt so alone and lonely.
I also think I am a bit afraid of "change" and the unknown - what will "happen/change" if I reach my goal?, or change my glasses, stop dying my hair - all things I want to do but somehow unable to push myself to do. Hopefully counceling will help me find the answer to my self-sabotage and my self-esteem will increase.
PS: I have begun taking care of me - I joined a yoga class and I exercise 3 times a week at noon at a gym near work - I love having time all to myself taking care of myself - because in the long run - I am the only one who is responsible for taking care of me.
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  #119   ^
Old Fri, Mar-28-03, 17:00
TeriDoodle TeriDoodle is offline
Starting Over!
Posts: 3,435
 
Plan: Protein Power LifePlan
Stats: 182/178/150 Female 67 inches
BF:Jiggley mess
Progress: 13%
Location: Texas!!
Default

Well, I'd say this article is appropriate for today!! From the www.skinnydaily.com website (and posted with permission from the author):

Quote:
Are You Worthy?

When people sign up to receive The Skinny Daily Post by mail, they have the option of answering some questions that help me understand more about who's reading this and what they might be looking for.

I ask about topics/themes, and one of the possible topics is "self-loathing." I had someone ask about that the other day, because they thought it was an odd, or possibly out-of-place topic in that list. Now the person who asked is someone who struggles with 10-20 lbs. of extra weight. I can see why it confused him. The people who understand that choice - and it's one of the most frequently selected topics - tend to weigh more (among 300 blessed souls and counting!).

Obese and morbidly obese people are old acquaintances to self-loathing. Despite a stellar personality, a keen intellect, passionate interests, selfless service to family, community, or profession, despite wealth, power, or the possession of a really cool car, if you have a lot of extra weight, you are likely to host a self-hating demon in your head. One that's hard to silence.

When I coach people personally, and when I was morbidly obese myself and facing ANOTHER diet, it's the little self-hating demon who's hardest to fight, whose voice takes over every time.

I had coffee just recently with a friend who's bright, intelligent, witty, wise. She's fluctuated in weight all her life, and in the process of losing weight several times has become intimately familiar with every diet plan devised. She knows how to lose weight, how her body will respond, how much exercise she needs to fit into her busy schedule to make the weight come off. She knows everything she needs to know. She's well equipped for dieting.

But she just can't seem to get started.

Oh. Man. What's more frustrating than that?

I asked, innocently, almost absentmindedly, "Is it because you think you're not worthy?"

I wish I hadn't. The flood of tears that followed surprised both of us, screwed up her makeup AND mine, and made her feel embarrassed in her favorite coffee shop. (Of course that's what coffee shops are FOR.) She might forgive me some day.

People feel and are asked to feel all sorts of terrible things about extra weight. They are despised for it, reviled for it, overlooked because of it. People assume laziness, lack of control. They assume gluttony. Knowing that's what people think wears down your ego. You begin to feel unworthy, lazy, stupid. Some little part of you may believe what you're hearing or what people are thinking.

Though most overweight people actually eat the same amounts, or sometimes less than their skinny friends, they think of themselves as gluttons because their weight appears to be evidence to the contrary. That is, they believe the popular, rather than the scientific, notion of what causes obesity.

The truth is, obesity researchers will look you in the eye and say they have no idea what causes obesity, but they don't believe it is always caused by feeding habits or behavior or psychology. Sometimes, yes. Most of the time, no. That's why they're looking so hard for genetic and biochemical causes.

Okay. Great. So now we know it's not our fault. That may not be enough to silence the little voices in our heads. But it's a start.

On the other hand, learning to lose weight and to maintain weight loss DOES require modifications in behavior. Long term modifications in behavior. Lifetime modifications in behavior.

When you face that hated statistic (which, along with the set-point theory has been and continues to be challenged by ongoing research) that 95% of people who lose weight regain it within 3 to 5 years, you are apt to believe that weight loss is hopeless, futile, possibly self-destructive. Statistics like this will do that to people.

And you're likely to give up quickly if you do start to regain weight after returning to your normal eating habits. It will quickly convince you of your hoplessness, your destiny as a stupid, fat glutton.

Don't go there, brothers and sisters.

When you work hard to lose weight, yes, your metabolism will lower bit. But you know what? It will climb back up once you reach your goal weight. It won't climb back up quickly. It will do so slowly, and so you must increase your food slowly, SLOOoooooooowwwwly, to avoid fast regain, emotional upheaval, feelings of futility, fatalism, self-loathing.

What does that mean? It means that the 95% may well have regained their weight because, though they are successful losers, they stink at maintenance. Though they know how to lose weight, they don't know how to maintain a thinner body, to live like a thin person.

Oh.

Living like a thin person means you move more, eat less than YOU did before. Not more or less than your sister, than your brother, than your neighbor or co-worker. It means that compared with YOUR habits before weight loss, YOUR habits after weight loss must be different to maintain the weight loss. And that means planning to live differently.

Was my friend really ready to lose weight, really equipped? No. Why? Because she wasn't ready to change her life. Why? Because it meant spending time on herself. spending more time cooking healthier meals, spending more time at the gym, picking up and practicing even more healthy habits than she already had.

And that's the stinker. This is no lazy woman. She walks every day already. She cooks plenty of healthy meals. But she needs to do more, forever, for herself. Change the fabric of life in her family. She hasn't quite been ready to disrupt life in her household, and didn't think she had the right. You know, being a lowly, lazy, stupid fat person.

Her assignment is to sit down with her family, and ask for their support and patience while she discovers what it's going to take to lose the weight, and to expect that this won't be a "diet kick," but will result in permanent changes. I expect she'll be surprised by how quickly and completely they'll support her.

We're always afraid of creating disruption with our new ways of eating and exercising. But I recommend you don't try to guess how the people around you will react. They may, and usually do, surprise us. They may think you're more worthy than you give yourself credit for being. They may think your well-being and good health are worth even the most dramatic upheavals, whatever it takes.

If they don't? Well. You may have a bigger problem than weight loss to resolve. And I'm sorry for that.

So, today, this weekend: Think about whether you're worthy. Write about it. Talk about it. Think about it. Tease the little demons out of their hiding places in your cranium and shout them down in your journal.

(You are SO worthy,)


JuJu
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  #120   ^
Old Thu, Apr-03-03, 12:25
Kingwood Kingwood is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 150
 
Plan: Atkins/testing CAD
Stats: 198/184/145
BF:
Progress: 26%
Location: Kingwood
Default

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone. I really appreciate all the support through this difficult time. In a nutshell; my parents survived and will be released from the hospital and other family members are going to be taking care of them for now. What a change that is, I've always been the one to rush in and take care of everyone but this time I said no.

Its amazing that when I said no, I wasn't going to stay around for a month how suddently others realized they could. There is a big lesson in that for me. I am learning to still do things for others but not to the point of ignoring my own needs. Balance is the key for me. I've been through a great deal this past year and I really need this time to focus on my own needs or I won't be worth a hoot to anyone including myself.

I've chosen not to weigh in but did take my measurements this morning and I'm losing inches, so I don't need the scale to tell me I'm doing just fine.
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