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  #1   ^
Old Wed, May-16-18, 09:37
yabbaranks's Avatar
yabbaranks yabbaranks is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 231
 
Plan: Atkins 72
Stats: 178/178/147 Female 5ft8.5
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: uk
Default To break a stall you reduce fat and increase protein?

I have been on the keto/low carb WOE for 5 + years now, with a few blips now and again, but quickly get back in the saddle. Only this blip, whilst getting back into low carb I instantly lost half a dress size in induction in 2-4 weeks (which isn't great considering the huge losses in the past). Well, I thought looks like I better keep on keeping on and not alter anything or rock the boat.

It is now nearly 2 months in and while my, appetite is non-existent, having heaps of energy, not hungry and being able to fast easily (all signs of fat-adaptinon), I am stalling, however, my stomach is increasing in size, flat globules seem to be rising to the surface of my skin its quite science fiction really! I have never had issues with cottage cheese legs and stomach but now I do!

I've tried, adjusting salt intake, drinking lots of water always, intermittent fast 16:8 so my last meal is 6 pm. As I said, I've been doing this WOE for a while but seems things need to change.

If anyone has heard of Amy Berger and her awesome blog. She talks about why people stall and that we should be reducing fats once we are fat adapted, not be afraid of protein etc. I have been so weary, watching protein intake because all I hear is that it turns to glucose in the body. Maybe this is where some of those vegan proponents get diabetes and eating meat link. While I think its preposterous, part of me has been still worried.

Anyway, Amy sort of reassured me but would like to know what you think..

If you're stalling and in ketosis/fat adapted, should one reduce fats and up protein?

Really interesting where she talks about gluconeogenesis.
http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2017/0...neogenesis.html
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, May-16-18, 10:18
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 4,548
 
Plan: ~25NC/IF
Stats: 342.2/198/000 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 42%
Default

This is a good talk and recent with some studies referenced https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3fO5aTD6JU
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, May-16-18, 12:51
khrussva's Avatar
khrussva khrussva is offline
Posts: 6,629
 
Plan: My own - < 30 net carbs
Stats: 440/205/210 Male 5' 11"
BF:Energy Unleashed
Progress: 102%
Location: Central Virginia - USA
Default

I've tweaked my WOE several times for various reasons over the past few years trying to figure out what is right for me. The first 6 months I lost weight easily simply sticking to a plan of < 35 (or so) net carbs per day. Then my weight loss slowed to a crawl. My first tweak was simply to eat my usual LC meals, while trying to reduce or eliminate between meal snacking. Another tweak was to work in intermittent fasting. And yet another tweak was to start weighing and logging my meals to have a better sense of how much I was eating. I've experimented with adding more fiber to my diet and found it to be to my liking. After doing these things I was able to keep the scale moving (albeit at a slower rate than the early days of this journey). When I started working out more I found recovery to be slower than I expected. That is when I started messing around with upping the protein. That appeared to help, too.

Long story short, I find that more protein works fine for me. My BG stays good even with more protein. I've found that I can easily overeat fat and protein. I have gained weight even while eating carbs at a level that keeps me in the ketogenic zone. When I'm at my best with this WOE I am keeping the carbs in check (< 40 net), eat a higher amount of protein (150g on average), and getting most of my fat from whole foods. I cut out adding fat to my coffee, fat bombs, etc. to my regular regimen. Doing that keeps my calories within reason (2200 to 2800 per day). Keep in mind that I am male, larger than you and very active.

My point here is more about changing things up to see if we can find a better way for us to eat. As I tweaked things up I did my best to give the new plan some time (at least 3 or more months). A few days or weeks was not enough time to know if something was working or not. I've called this "dieting" within my WOE as I was still low carb, just trying something a little different every few months. I don't follow any specific plan. Not every tweak has had positive effects. Even 4 years into this WOE I'm still working at it. The thing that I would suggest is that if what you are doing isn't working, then tweak it up and try something else for a while.

P.S. Currently I'm trying the tweak that I was doing when I lost the last 40 pounds and so far it has not been as successful as it was the first time around. I'm having a little more trouble sticking to it this time.
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, May-17-18, 04:17
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,073
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Short answer, yes.
Posted Dr Phinney and Volek advice here: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showpost...324&postcount=6. And Dr. Westman's here, http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...212#post9275212

The "metabolic advantage" to LC is small. It comes down to eating just enough fat to be satiated (why the clinic has limits on added fats, no nuts, no drinking BPC, etc) and eliminating non-satiating energy sources (alcohol, aka any empty calories ). The fats found naturally with typical proteins are allowed and with the protein, very satiating. Phinney and Volek define "Moderate Protein" for our height as 14oz...that might be an "increase" for you? https://blog.virtahealth.com/how-much-protein-on-keto/
If you also practice IF as I do, 14 oz of meat is a boatload to have at two meals

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, May-17-18 at 05:44.
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, May-17-18, 15:07
yabbaranks's Avatar
yabbaranks yabbaranks is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 231
 
Plan: Atkins 72
Stats: 178/178/147 Female 5ft8.5
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: uk
Default

Thank you all! Sorry for the late reply. Appreciate all your comments and taking heed from you knowledgeable lot ;D. Will follow up on those links. Love Dr Phinney JEY100, I have his book - 'the art and science of low carb'. Have only read a bit, though have watched quite a few of his talks on youtube.

Bit of a dude!

Thanks all again! x
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  #6   ^
Old Mon, Jun-04-18, 09:56
janetkind janetkind is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 448
 
Plan: my own ~ fasting.
Stats: 178/120/110 Female 4ft.11
BF:
Progress: 85%
Default

How about when you had Gall blader removed??I had remove 2.5 weeks ago.
Was not working.
Need to lose the last 10 lbs.
Plus I will start back to If type fasting.
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, Jun-04-18, 10:27
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is online now
Posts: 2,156
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thud123
This is a good talk and recent with some studies referenced https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3fO5aTD6JU

Thud's response will point you in the right direction related to protein. Dr. Ben Bikman is doing some very interesting research that supports increasing protein with no negative effects for people following a LCHF WOE. I encourage anyone who has questions about the role of protein to watch this video.

I, too, have increased my daily protein amount over the past several months. I follow a very strict ketogenic approach and limit my carbs in favor of protein and fat. Because I feel better when I'm in ketosis, I measure my blood ketone levels whenever I make changes to see what happens with ketone production. Moderately increasing my daily protein didn't change anything, so I know I have a good amount of leeway in this area, and Bikman's research supports this approach. There seems to be an argument that once one's protein consumption gets higher, corresponding gluconeogenesis produces glucose that reduces or eliminates ketone production. While each person may respond differently, I would need to eat a lot of protein to knock me out of being a fat burner. The other finding is that as people get older, increasing protein is beneficial, and I'm a poster child for that philosophy as well. I strongly believe that once one is fat adapted over several months, the metabolism easily maintains the ability to use fat as primary fuel.
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Jun-04-18, 11:01
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 8,621
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/183/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 54%
Location: Texas
Default

Thanks for all of the info everybody, I hope this will help me start loosing again
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  #9   ^
Old Mon, Jun-04-18, 15:00
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,194
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
Default

Have a protein shake every few -- at my age whole protein is not as easily absorbed. Limit mine to about the protein in 4 chicken drumsticks a day or < 120g protein.
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Jun-14-18, 02:31
Cremorne Cremorne is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 59
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 167.3/162/125.6 Female 157cm
BF:
Progress: 13%
Location: Australia
Default To break a stall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thud123
This is a good talk and recent with some studies referenced https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3fO5aTD6JU


Thanks for the link. This was illuminating and I went on to watch a previous interview he did on the subject of insulin resistance which I was diagnosed with a while ago. I have a few questions and answers but this is not my thread so will ask the questions elsewhere.
Thanks again.
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Jun-14-18, 02:40
Cremorne Cremorne is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 59
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 167.3/162/125.6 Female 157cm
BF:
Progress: 13%
Location: Australia
Default khrussia

Hi there.

I love your post about your history and successes and tips and tricks that worked for you. I also like that you have your own Plan..

I found your story inspiring and I hope you dont mind if I copy your post and use it for inspiration.

I am a fairly committed type of person and relate to your commitment of just do it and dont deviate. Really its the only way.

Thanks again - most inspiring.
Cremorne.
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