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  #1   ^
Old Mon, Sep-28-09, 13:00
Epoisses Epoisses is offline
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Plan: general low carb
Stats: 157/152/145 Female 165 cm
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Default Low carb and depression?

Hi all,

I have PCOS and have been trying lately to stick to a low-carb diet in the hopes of restoring my cycles (with no luck so far). I eat non-starchy vegetables, meat, eggs, nuts, dairy, some fruits occasionally (I'm permanently craving fruits). I'm nowhere near Atkins levels: my calories breakdown on fitday for the last month shows an average of 42 g "net carbs" a day. I tried to go lower but I feel really terrible at 20 g a day. Apart from 5 pounds that I lost in the first week, presumably due to glycogene depletion, I haven't lost weight. Not surprising considering that my average caloric intake is a whopping 1,966 cal a day (but if I eat less, I feel frustrated and hungry). Anyway, losing weight isn't really my primary goal, ovulating is.

My problem is that for the last few weeks I have been increasingly experiencing symptoms evocative of depression (difficulties falling asleep, difficulties concentrating, fuzzy mind, general lack of energy, difficulties making even simple decisions). I have a history of major clinical depression and have been on Paxil for years; I've been off it for two years and was doing perfectly fine before going low-carb. Of course it could just be some mild depressive symptoms kicking in unrelated to diet, but it started right after I began low-carbing, and it gets partly eased when I up the carbs a little (to 60, 65 g a day). A quick search brought up this: http://www.psychologytoday.com/arti...carb-state-mind ... Now, I can imagine that low-carb diets don't spark depressive symptoms in everyone, or you wouldn't be all doing it; plus the study was made on rats, who are not exactly expected to eat a low-carb diet etc etc, but... with my medical history I really wouldn't want to mess with my serotonin levels. So I don't really know whether I should continue or not.

Your thoughts?
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Sep-28-09, 15:40
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
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Progress: 118%
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Have you checked your omega 3, vitamin d, magnesium status?

Your brain requires adequate amounts of all of the above and it is extremely common, in fact probably always the case that people who are depressed are vitamin d3, omega 3 and magnesium deficient.

These 5000iu are d3 in a Medium Chain Triglyceride oil so should work quite well. but there are a range I use the Country life $14.98 360 ones but they are currently out of stock but as everyone needs to supplement in winter you may as well buy the largest most economical pack you can find. Bear in mind that Vitamin D deficiency is almost always found in people with PCOS and that correcting vitamin D deficiency increases fertility so take more care if you don't want to become pregnant.

for omega 3 I'd suggest something like this but you may prefer a liquid fish oil concentrate that works out cheaper.

Magnesium Malate is a reasonable form of magnesium

Another way of improving mood is to use 5 htp They also seem to work as an appetite supressor so you may find they cut your cravings. Some people take them at night together with melatonin to help improve quality of sleep.

I really don't think the people who wrote that article understand how the brain works. Most people on a low carb diet INCREASE their intake of fat, Coconut oil is a favourite here but increased use of butter, lard are also common. Your brain is geared to burn fat as it's preferred fuel. It's only because we overconsume carbs that the brain is forced to burn glucose. Our DNA evolved in a low carbohydrate environment no farming no grains no flour no sugar or only occasionally, In order to be quickwitted enough and sufficiently concentrated to follow track and hunt down the next meal we have to be capable of brains functioning best when hungry and short of food and this is when our brains require a fat based fuel.

Brains work better, not worse on a low carbohydrate diet providing you consume more oil, MCT oil or coconut oil are the most likely to improve brain function. Dr McCleary has written a lot on low carb and ketones as the ideal fuel for the brain

If you haven't used IHERB before ~~~~~~ saves you $5.
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  #3   ^
Old Mon, Sep-28-09, 15:44
pmezak pmezak is offline
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Plan: Schwarzbein/gluten free
Stats: 148/146/120 Female 5'2"
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I didn't look at the article, but I know that sometimes low carb does not help the serotonin levels....but at the same time, I wouldn't quit your plan. One thing to try is to have some carbs, something healthy before you go to bed. Have you seen a book out called "Potatoes, Not Prozac" by Kathleen DesMaisons...? She goes into a lot of detail about depression, and I am pretty sure she recommends low carb during the day, and a small baked potato before bed, one without any proteins added (no cheese or cottage cheese on top, etc). It's supposed to release just enough insulin to allow serotonin to pass the blood brain barrier if I remember correctly. Some people use a banana, some use sweet potato or some oatmeal. Something healthy though. Check out the book and see what you think.

ps. I recently had some Epoisses de Bourgogne fromage, it was great! Is your nick name related to that?

Last edited by pmezak : Mon, Sep-28-09 at 15:47. Reason: add a ps
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Oct-19-10, 16:25
Arcane Arcane is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 266/154/148 Male 68 inches
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The Omega 3/ Vitamin D/ Magnesium deficiency causing depression is a load of boll*cks.

If this were the case, wouldn't all the third world malnutritioned population be suffering from depression and anxiety?
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Oct-19-10, 17:09
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Seejay Seejay is offline
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Plan: Optimal Diet
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I used the Potatoes not Prozac program and feel it really helped lift the low serotonin type of depression I had. I would never have gotten out of the hole by going right from carb overdosing straight to low carb, and I know that because I tried that exact thing dozens of times.

To this day I follow a program that allows 50g of carbs even from (gasp) potatoes and I feel great all the time.

I also had to take omega3, vit D, and minerals (iodine and magnesium) for deficiencies also.

I think that once my brain had been so disregulated from carb overdosing, it would never have been enough to just stop the carbs. I had to add in sat fat and protein. There are more elements to restoring a healthy brain - the right protein, fat, and carb, and also minerals, sleep, and behavior too. (like quitting the drama crisis making)

I do have to watch the amounts of fat and carb to lose fat; it's easy to overdo it when I don't exercise all that much.
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Oct-19-10, 18:27
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Water Lily Water Lily is offline
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Not scientific evidence, just anecdotal: I get very depressed on a HIGH carb diet. LOW carb lifts my mood considerably.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Oct-20-10, 05:58
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sondora88 sondora88 is offline
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Plan: Primal Blueprint
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Water Lily
Not scientific evidence, just anecdotal: I get very depressed on a HIGH carb diet. LOW carb lifts my mood considerably.


^^ This, I am the same.

I've never felt as calm/undistressed for as long as I have since I started low-carbing.

Also, I'm not a study in and of myself, but I also started taking chelated magnesium, which may have helped me also. I have a LOT less headaches and migraines now.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Oct-20-10, 06:52
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leemack leemack is offline
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Plan: no sugar/grains LCHF IF
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High omega 3 supplements have helped my depression, I take 3.5g EPA + DHA - if you try this look carefully on the supplement, they will often say 1000mg on them - but thats the amount of fish oil, not necessarily the omega 3 content, you should count the epa and dha and have at least 2g of this for depression.My supplement is 1000mg fish oil but only 350mg omega 3. Regarding the PCOS, I've read in a few places that some of us need to keep our carbs under 30g/d - that's what I do and my cycle returned.

Lee
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, Oct-21-10, 09:58
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane
The Omega 3/ Vitamin D/ Magnesium deficiency causing depression is a load of boll*cks.

If this were the case, wouldn't all the third world malnutritioned population be suffering from depression and anxiety?
Show me a depressed person who is NOT vitamin D omega 3 or magnesium deficient.
It's inevitably the case that people who are deficient in one or all of those natural anti inflammatory agents will suffer more inflammation than is normal and eventually inflammation in the brain will cause damage that will present a depression.
Ensure all depressed people have magnesium,
Vitamin D3
and omega 3 deficiency states corrected almost always leads to an improvement in symptoms of depression.
Ideally as vitamin D3 omega 3 and magnesium work together in synergy better than individually it is more effective to correct all at the same time rather than trying to correct each separately.
Depression is a state where there is brain inflammation.

The idea that people who have deficiency states in natural anti inflammatory agents will not at some point in their lives eventually become depressed is frankly a load of boll*cks. You need the neuroprotection vitamin D, magnesium and omega 3 provide, if you choose to do without it eventually you will suffer the consequences.
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Oct-22-10, 06:02
leemack's Avatar
leemack leemack is offline
NEVER GIVING UP!
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Plan: no sugar/grains LCHF IF
Stats: 478/354/200 Female 5' 9"
BF:excessive!!
Progress: 45%
Location: UK
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane
The Omega 3/ Vitamin D/ Magnesium deficiency causing depression is a load of boll*cks.

If this were the case, wouldn't all the third world malnutritioned population be suffering from depression and anxiety?


How would we know what psychiatric problems people in the third world are suffering from - I doubt there is much in the way of psychiatric care or diagnosis. I also think the doctors that treat them are more concerned with keeping them alive physically to be able to look at psychological health, except in the most extreme cases.

Lee
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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Oct-22-10, 06:47
PilotGal PilotGal is offline
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Plan: KetoCarnivore
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i don't see any correlation between low carb and depression. in fact, the opposite is true for me.
i've been off xanax and anti depressants now for 4 yrs all because i lowered my carbs to between 5 and 10 grams per day....
i have never suffered a depressed day in 4 yrs.
i cannot believe that low carbs give you depression, when the exact opposite lifted mine.
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, Oct-22-10, 12:13
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pinkclouds pinkclouds is offline
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Plan: Atkins-ish
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Interesting! I was just commenting on this in a couple of other threads.

My issue isn't as much depression as it is anxiety, but they are related. And I can tell you that when I am low carbing I feel a significant reduction in my anxiety and I don't feel the doom and gloom kind of depression that I do when I am eating sugary,starchy foods. Also, I started taking extra magnesium and D3 about three weeks ago and the difference has been noticeable as far as my ability to handle things that are stressful or would typically launch me into an anxious or depressive reaction.

The potatoes not prozac thing is very interesting to me. I had not heard of it before! Thanks for pointing it out pmezak.
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  #13   ^
Old Fri, Oct-22-10, 21:42
indieFan indieFan is offline
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Posts: 179
 
Plan: Atkins - Back to Square 1
Stats: 236.2/216.4/140 Female 66 inches
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Progress: 21%
Location: LaLaLand (Los Angeles)
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I would contact your psychiatrist and let him know what you are doing and how you are doing. There are lots of suggestions here to increase some of the vitamins, but the pdoc can order some blood tests and then give you information as to which vitamins you actually need.

I know, I'm one of the few around that seems to actually trust Western Medicine.
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  #14   ^
Old Fri, Oct-22-10, 21:47
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Didy Didy is offline
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Plan: Low carb
Stats: 136/118/115 Female 5' 2"
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My husband suffered from clinical depression. He tried the meds and that made things much worse. I got him on a good supplemental program of D3, B-Complex, Magnesium, etc.... and that has done wonders! Way more than the meds ever did for him. He is not a low carber, but he did find out that he was D deficient, years after I had started him on supplements...and he was taking 1,000 mg a day then, now he has to take about 3,000 mg a day of the D3.
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  #15   ^
Old Sun, Oct-24-10, 12:30
pkadams pkadams is offline
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Plan: CALP
Stats: 168/135/130 Female 5'3'
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Location: Tx
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Hi, I have PCOS too. Have you been using natural progesterone cream? Yes, use the supplements suggested above, and exercise regularly for the endorphins, but for some of us, progesterone is the ONLY cure for our symptoms. I would have probably killed myself by now without it. I am 46 now, so no longer trying to ovulate, but I had infertility issues in the past. I now have SIX children! So don't give up! I am only two weeks into Atkins and its affecting my moods, making me cry alot when I am usually an emotionless zombie on caffeine and sugar, or angry and irritable. One reason I started low carbing is to help balance my hormones. But I still need the prog. cream for now. You can get it at any healthfood or vitamin store or online. Good luck and God bless
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