I just completed the first half of my grocery shopping and realized BFL required low-fat dairy. I haven't ever liked low-fat dairy and since I've been low carbing my fat intake has gone up.

I'm losing already with the way I'm eating and my eyebrows are still lifted over his list of allowed foods. My lc alarm signals were going full blast over some (corn, baked potatoes!) and I kept picking up and putting back the steel cut oatmeal today. I'm not carb paranoid or even a freak over counting them but YIKES, even deducting the fiber, oatmeal is pretty up there - about 19g to 1/3 cup for some kinds.

I picked up staples like bottled water, frozen vegetables, etc. and now have to head off to the health food market for the organic stuff and meat.

Phil believes more in portion control and not so much in restriction and I can see how that'd be important when one is consuming six meals a day but I'm not leaning toward the low-fat dairy (or even the yogurt, maybe some cottage cheese).

(Back to the book, I guess. Will I ever finish this darn book??)

Hi Optimist, I am wondering about some of the same issues. I still haven't been able to bring myself to eat a carbo-load like oatmeal or Myoplex, but I'm going to try and make myself next week after lifting.

I've been basically following Atkins maintenance, with 40-50 carbs a day and more protein than I would have eaten before. But my fat percent is still way up there. I'm confused about how to combine low carb and the BFL eating plan. Are we supposed to do low fat? What do we eat then, just protein?

When I started BFL, I was already on Atkin's and eating about 20g of carbs a day. I didn't change my diet other than to start eating 6 meals a day. Around the fourth week I started to feel ill after my gym workouts. I upped my carbs to about 30-40 g a day. Basically I try to get at least 5 grams with every meal. Last week I went out and bought some Myoplex, I plan to use one packet (20g carbs) 45 minutes after each gym workout. I'm thinking I really need more carbs after my workout.

So this will be my first non-Atkin's sort of food in 6 months. It felt okay yesterday when I tried my first shake.

The diet part is puzzling to do and try to stay on Atkins’. I refuse to eat bread and other high starch or sugary foods. I'm just not willing to go there yet. I know Atkin's allows whole grains, etc. in maintenance, but it's scary to me. I'm afraid I'd find myself on the slippery slope to where I was when I started.

The BFL plan does look low-fat and I'm not willing to there either, so my choice is to stick as close to Atkin’s as I can, while still doing as much of BFL as I can under those restraints.

I think each of us will have to find our own way through this, adjusting for our own needs. This is what I've been finding through trial and error (lots of error).

Arnie

If you're going to follow BFL by the book, then it has to be low fat. You'll be eating way too many carbs throughout the day for it to work unless you follow the plan. The nutritional breakdown is 40/40/20 (P/C/F). And yes, it does work (the caveat here being it works for most - but not for everyone, just like LC doesn't work for 100% of the population).

If you're going to do BFL with LC eats then you have to forget the list in the book. You eat closer to maintenance carbs for your LC plan. You still eat 5-6 times a day and you shouldn't count calories, IMHO. You should only ensure you're getting adequate protein grams at each meal.

The two - LC BFL and By-The-Book BFL - don't mix. By the book is low calorie, by it's very nature (cut out the fat and calories drop significantly). LC BFL needs to be higher calorie - not just because you're eating fat, but because youre burning fat. To burn fat you need to eat fat - stoking that furnace, so to speak. This is a great post that explains why this is the case .

If you've been eating Induction level carbs and you're new to lifting you're going to need to increase carbs a little around workouts - or you're most likely going to feel 'blah'. After a while this might not be necessary (I am lifting right now on 20-25g a day but I couldnt do this 18 months ago).

What Arnie described - upping carbs and having about 5g per meal - works great. Also, having carbs pre or post workout to the tune of 20-30g also works great (this is actually very similar to a TKD where you use those carbs to fuel your workout [pre workout carbs] or where you use a controled spike of insulin to drive protein and carbs into your muscle for recovery [post workout carbs]). You can use whichever method feels best to you. And FYI, post workout carbs don't usually effect your body the way a regular 30g dose would. These carbs are needed for something other than fat storage and are used accordingly. This is only for lifting workouts, BTW.

Arnie, you'll be comforted to know that manyof those who do BFL by the book eschew the breads - Bill actually says to try to if you can.

Sarah, I saw your comments in the other thread about calories, don't worry about them right now. Your body is going to be doing some bigtime repair and maintenance and it's going to need that energy. I know many tiny women who eat 1600-1900 calories a day and are losing fat (and those are by the book calories, so it's a TONNE of food).

Optimist, I think first you have to decide which version of BFL you want to try and buy your dairy and meats accordingly. Remember, low fat low carb is not a viable WOL. You're basically starving yourself and it will backfire. Your body doesn't like to use protein for energy, it's too precious a commodity - that leaves fat or carbs. Trust me, this works with full fat yoghurt, full fat cottage cheese and full fat (insert food item here) - so long as you keep the carbs in check.

The sticky at the top of this forum on eating LC and doing BFL might be a good place to go for a few minutes later on

Cheers,
Nat

Hi Nat, thanks so much for your advice. It sounds like I definitely want to stick with maintenance levels of Atkins & keep my eye on protein intake. Also I need to get the hang of six meals a day.

also thanks for the reassurance on calories!! I think sometimes I worry too much.

I got some Slender Soy milk to make Myoplex shakes. Would it make sense to have half a shake before lifting and the other half after? Or would you recommend having the whole thing either before or after.

Also, I was under the impression that I should eat some carbs anytime after lifting, as long as it was within 45 min. But I read on the BFL website not to eat right before or after working out? Should I wait maybe half an hour?

Red, I'm a rank amateur at this (which should be obvious!) but I think that women just don't bulk up like men do without the assistance of steroids or something like that. So don't worry about getting cantaloupe-sized biceps, cause it's not going to happen no matter how much weight you lift

Hiyah Toots I think the one thing that may be hindering you here is the protein number, not the carbs (although Increasing to say 30g might make a world of difference in how you feel). 77g a day is not enough, especially if you're increasing cardio. I'd aim for a minimum 1g per lb of lean body mass, and I'd be even happier if you made that 1g per lb of body weight!

This will bring down your fat % slightly (it's only natural - increase one, the other changes ever so slightly).

Those dudes are both right and wrong. You'll probably never get their results on 20g a day, but your goal isn't to put on a lot of muscle - it's to lose fat and keep your current lean mass, but have it be more toned. Toned is a function of lifting heavy weights - it's the degree of tension muscles are under when they are relaxed.

Will you get there following your current pace? Probably. Will it take longer? Probably. LC is muscle sparing - meaning the body doesnt waste muscle for fuel - this, however, is all contingent upon sufficient calories and most importantly, sufficient protein to maintain a positive nitrogen balance. More cardio = more protein. (remember excessive cardio is catabolic!).

-Nat

This can be a little confusing. If you're doing an intense workout eating right before is counter productive - it can also make you feel nauseous! A small amount of protein and a few carbs about 45 minutes before a workout will give you energy you need to get through. Following a resistance workout you want to get more protein and a few more carbs into you w/in 45 minutes - you should also take your anti oxidants and glutamine then. The goal here is to deliver the amino acids and the carbs to your muscles ASAP. The anti oxidants, the carbs and the glutamine will also help shut down cortisol production (cortisol is very catabolic and becomes unmanageable if you intensely exercise for more than 1 hour).

Half a shake before, the rest after is good. Remember with shakes you'll be hungrier sooner - they are quick to empty from the stomach and take little time to digest. (this is good post and pre workout - gets the stuff where it's needed fastest.)

With respect to cardio - nothing for 2 hour prior, and wait at least an hour after (especially with HIIT).

You're right about the hormones, Sarah. Women do not have the right profile to build muscle like men - it would take some 'extra' help. We're from the planet estrogen, they're from the planet testosterone

N

Nat, thank you! I'm going to do LC BFL and purchased the usual full fat supplies. My shopping list didn't change that much but I've got some great ideas to try for my six meals. I'm still a little confused though (apologies, so much to absorb and I've read so much it's kinda running together!) - the post workout shake doe NOT count as one of the six meals - right? Or does it?

Arnie, you're really working this program to the max! You had to have been a little nervous increasing your carbs but were smart enough not to resort to old habits - GREAT job. I actually experimented with a low-carb bread Thursday to see if I'd add it to one of my six meals but I'm not a bread person anymore. I picked up some natural peanut butter, melon and even MORE vegetables instead. I'm gonna be one healthy woman if I'm not careful! 8 weeks...3/4 of the way there!

Sara, I don't think I even looked at a Myoplex before you mentioned it. I did buy some berries to throw in my Keto shake because it's familiar (and I've got 3 cans!).

red1cutie, please don't give up. You've already started and I'm looking forward to your final workout when you post a big WHOOP of satisfaction!

Good morning all, yippee it's Sunday, free day....

Optimist, I do count the post workout shake as a meal. Good choices on the groceries. Another couple things that have become staple in our house is Cottage cheese and nuts and %100 whey protein. I think a few posts ago someone asked what supplements people are using. I take the things Atkin's suggests, Glutamine, and Optimum Nutrition’s, %100 whey protein.

Red, I echo what Optimist said, don't give up. Take what Nat said in her post and adjust what you are doing. Then come back and ask more questions and adjust again. That's what I've been doing.

Nat, thanks again for taking the time to share your experience and knowledge about this. I know that Bill talks about passing it on in the book, so you are really excelling at all aspects of BFL. I just want you to know how much your efforts are appreciated. I’ve learnt so much from your posts.

Arnie

Oh yes, it does! What doesn't 'count' in that meal in the same way it usually counts in a meal are your carbs, because they are needed for a specific purpose. (but you should still count them in your daily totals). Are we confused yet?

Red, If I may suggest, cut out the post workout fat. Try to have only protein and only some carbs - fat will slow how fast the protein is absorbed (as will fiber). Yoghurt is good, fruit is OK (try not to get all your carbs from fruit as it's not a good way to refuel muscle glycogen). If 6 meals isn't 'doable' right now, start with 5 and work the 6th one in if you need it. At 25g of protein a meal, 5 meals, you should easily be hitting 125g a day... 25g of protein is 3oz of chicken breast, or 4 eggs in egg salad - doable?

Yes, unless you take bigger amounts of glutamine it doesn't make it past the gut to get to the blood where it's needed. Having your glutamine with your post workout shake (minus any fat / fiber) helps get it to the muscles - it empties very fast from the stomach, making for less time to be 'eaten up'. Dividing your dose up into 2 or 3 is usually recommended - post workout / pre bedtime for optimal results

Can't take Carnitine up here - it's not for sale yet.

-Nat

well I had half a Myoplex shake before lifting today. Last week when I did my first LB workout I really pushed it & was so sore I could barely walk for days. I thought I wouldn't be able to do as much because I'm still a little sore from last week. But dang if I didn't lift more than before and still feel like I wasn't hitting my 10s!

The shake was so filling that I didn't feel like I could stand the rest after, so I had a peach and some more slender soy milk. Next time I'll have the fruit or some finn crisp crackers before, and the half shake after.

Nat, you rock!