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  #1   ^
Old Sat, Jul-30-11, 20:11
girlbug2's Avatar
girlbug2 girlbug2 is offline
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Posts: 1,091
 
Plan: Ketogenic paleo
Stats: 186/167/125 Female 5'4"
BF:trying to quit
Progress: 31%
Location: So. California
Default Hopelessly confused--explain my numbers?

Okay I've read several posts in this thread about interpreting cholesterol numbers and I think my brain is about to explode. I just don't understand anything beyond HDL=good, and triglycerides=bad. If anybody were to actually ask me to calculate anything I'd be in serious trouble! (terrible with math).

My doctor called the other day with my results while I was getting a pedicure so I didn't have anything handy to write down what he said and I asked him to mail me a copy, which he did. I do remember that he said my total cholesterol was too high and my LDL was too high but that my triglycerides were "looking good". We discussed my plans to lose weight and get my numbers checked again in 3 months.

Here's what was on the form mailed back to me:

Triglycerides: 301
Total cholesterol: 151
HDL: 48
LDL: 223

I don't understand, how can my triglycerides be "looking good" at 301? I thought I was supposed to keep them under 100. Could this be a typo/misprint?

On a side note, this is a doctor that's new to me but part of the same medical group I've been going to for 12 years now. He seemed cool with the idea that I didn't want to take statins and instead control my numbers through diet and exercise.
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  #2   ^
Old Sat, Jul-30-11, 20:13
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,866
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Something sounds wrong there. I don't think anyone would call 301 good for triglycerides.

I'd ask for a retest. Labs screw up fairly often.
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  #3   ^
Old Sun, Jul-31-11, 12:00
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
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Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Default

The numbers as given to you are wrong. The HLD + the LDL + 1/5th of the triglycerides must add up to the total cholesterol. It looks like the total cholesterol and triglyceride numbers are switched.
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Aug-02-11, 13:45
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
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Posts: 7,582
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: NE Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Something sounds wrong there.? I don't think anyone would call 301 good for triglycerides..
Not to mention that no one would call a total cholesterol of 151 "too high". Is this the actual lab report you got? Or just the numbers typed on paper? Could the triglycerides and total gotten transposed?
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Aug-03-11, 06:48
girlbug2's Avatar
girlbug2 girlbug2 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,091
 
Plan: Ketogenic paleo
Stats: 186/167/125 Female 5'4"
BF:trying to quit
Progress: 31%
Location: So. California
Default

I just heard back from my doctor yesterday morning; apparently, the triglyceride and total cholesterol numbers were switched.

So the corrected version reads:

Total Cholesterol: 300
Trigs: 150
HDL: 48
LDL: 223

The LDL iand the trigs are still too high for my comfort.

What do you all think?
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Aug-03-11, 06:50
girlbug2's Avatar
girlbug2 girlbug2 is offline
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Posts: 1,091
 
Plan: Ketogenic paleo
Stats: 186/167/125 Female 5'4"
BF:trying to quit
Progress: 31%
Location: So. California
Default

Yes thanks Merpig that is what happened!
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Aug-03-11, 07:19
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
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Posts: 7,582
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: NE Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by girlbug2
Total Cholesterol: 300
Trigs: 150
HDL: 48
LDL: 223
Well I'm not an expert, but I have a couple ideas. Your numbers actually are not that far off from what I had a year ago or so, where I had a TC of 295 and LDL of 201 (though my HDL was 74 and TG 50).

1) Have you had your thyroid checked? Hypothyroidism is a classic cause of high total cholesterol. That happened to be true in my case. Most doctors test only TSH if they test anything at all, and that really doesn't give the story. For a true test you need to at least test free T3, free T4, ferritin, and thyroid antibodies (to test for Hashimoto's). I finally found a practitioner willing to treat me with Armour dessicated thyroid, and after 6 weeks on it my total cholesterol dropped from 290 to 196.

2) Have you ever had your Vitamin D3 tested? Low D3 could be a cause of lower HDL (though yours is really not that low). Check this blog entry from Dr. Davis for more details:
http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog...-d-and-hdl.html

3) LDL numbers are pretty meaningless unless you have a breakdown of the actual particle size to see if you have the harmless fluffy Pattern A, or the more dangerous and dense Pattern B. It's an expensive test to run so it's not normally done, but would be measured by an NMR or VAP test. I wouldn't even worry about my LDL number until I found out actual particle size. When my LDL was over 200 I finally did get the endo to order an NMR test, and it showed my LDL was 90% the large fluffy harmless Pattern A sort (though the endo still insisted my absolute number was too high and I needed to be on statins. NOT!!!)

Note that after getting my thyroid more normalized my LDL dropped also, from over 200 to 124.
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  #8   ^
Old Thu, Aug-04-11, 07:33
girlbug2's Avatar
girlbug2 girlbug2 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,091
 
Plan: Ketogenic paleo
Stats: 186/167/125 Female 5'4"
BF:trying to quit
Progress: 31%
Location: So. California
Default

thanks merpig that was very helpful! My yearly test from two weeks ago did test TSH but I believe that's all. And actually it raises a few more questions for me:


Was your GP willing to order the thyroid tests or did you have to get a referral to an endocrinologist for that?

How hard was it to find a physician who was willing to treat you with Armour dessicated thyroid--meaning, is it something outside mainstream medicine that MDs are typically leery of trying?
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, Aug-04-11, 10:13
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
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Posts: 7,582
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: NE Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by girlbug2
Was your GP willing to order the thyroid tests or did you have to get a referral to an endocrinologist for that?
My GP did test for the thyroid antibodies, which came back positive, indicating hashimoto's. She was willing to treat me with synthroid, but when I expressed a preference for trying Armour she said "no way" and referred me to an endocrinologist to get me off her back.

But the endocrinologist was the *WORST* and from what I've read from other thyroid patients the last person on earth you want to see if you suspect thyroid issues is an endocrinologist. She was totally Big Pharma all the way, and would not even *CONSIDER* any medication but Synthroid or other synthetic T4 thyroid medications. My total cholesterol was 280 when I first went to her, and she was rabid to put me on statins! We had terrible arguments about it every time I went as even after I was put on Levoxyl (synthethic T4) my total cholesterol kept rising each visit - from 280 up to 290 to 295.

I told her that from all I had read a cholesterol reading like that was indicative of faulty thyroid, probable issue of impaired T4 to T3 conversion as cholesterol is regulated by the T3, and if you give only T4 to a patient who has that problem the cholesterol will never drop. She just totally pooh-poohed that and told me it was flat-out ridiculous and that Armour was *dangerous* and taking it would have no affect on my cholesterol, and I was being stupid to believe stuff I read on the internet! I don't want to see an endocrinologist ever again after that experience!
Quote:
Originally Posted by girlbug2
How hard was it to find a physician who was willing to treat you with Armour dessicated thyroid--meaning, is it something outside mainstream medicine that MDs are typically leery of trying?
It was not that easy. It clearly does seem to be outside the mainstream of medical practice. I finally found a holistic nurse practitioner who prescribes Armour. She's about an hour away from where I live right now, but many people travel much farther to find someone who will treat them, even to other countries! I'll be moving to Florida later this month, about 1000 miles away from her, but she is still willing to treat me remotely via phone and email as long as I make at least one visit to her each year. She *does* test both free T3 and free T4 as well as ferritin levels and antibody testing.

She does NOT take any insurance, but paying out of pocket is so worth it to me. It seems that most of the best thyroid practitioners don't take insurance, probably because the best thyroid medicine is not mainstream. Was it here I read of the woman who said her doctor told her he was forbidden to prescribe Armour to her by his commanding officer (military doctor clearly)? So not always easy to find. But you might find some ideas at http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com. Or if you look for NeanderPam here in these forums, she is a wealth of thyroid information and might know of someone to see in your area.

But look at me - basically a 100 point drop in total cholesterol after just 6 weeks on Armour. And I'm not the only one. Scarlet on the forums here had a similar dramatic drop in total cholesterol too, and at least one other person here whose name I forget said the same thing.

If you can't find a doctor who will run the appropriate tests you can order them yourself at a reasonable cost. See http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.co...mended-labwork/ for details. At least then you'd know where you stood. You could post results in the thyroid section here for help interpreting them.

Some comments from people at the stoptheythyroidmadness website:
Quote:
In the old days before the advent of the TSH lab test and synthetic hormones, hypothyroid patients were actually dosed according to their cholesterol levels (and basal temperature).

Because according to Dr. Barnes and Dr. Peatfield, high cholesterol is SYNONYMOUS with low thyroid function!

You can also see in this information WHY we are essentially left untreated: patents for thyroid drugs have either lapsed long ago, or they are not patentable (being a natural substance), and thyroid drugs are cheap! But statins make the pharmaceutical companies rich!

So there is no incentive neither for more research nor for better treatment – on the contrary, only the permanently sick are a source of revenue!
Quote:
I have been on Armour now for little over a year. I am at 270 mg (4 1/2 grains) and feel great. I have much more energy than I ever did before. I have started walking and go to Curves regularly. My cholestral has gone from 325 to 199 while on Armour, so far. I have lost 15 lbs and trying to lose more. My periods are back to regular monthly cycles–at the worst of my hypothyroid, I never knew when and if it would come. I tried the Synthroid for a few months and was not getting better even though my DR (old one ) told me I was fine. Just “needed more exercise” and “eat better”. Got a new DR, started Armour and now I am better!
Quote:
Lipitor is the best selling drug in the world. But for the first half of the 20th century, desiccated thyroid was the standard treatment for high cholesterol. Elevated cholesterol and triglycerides are one of the myriad symptoms of hypothyroidism. Dr. Barnes’ book included a chapter entitled “The Demise of the Cholesterol Theory.” Desiccated thyroid normalized cholesterol and triglycerides in 95% of the patients Dr. Barnes treated.

Last edited by Merpig : Thu, Aug-04-11 at 10:19.
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Aug-04-11, 10:40
amandawald amandawald is offline
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Posts: 4,737
 
Plan: Ray Peat (not low-carb)
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 164cm
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Progress: 51%
Location: Brit in Europe
Default

Great posts, Debbie!

amanda
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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Aug-05-11, 08:17
girlbug2's Avatar
girlbug2 girlbug2 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,091
 
Plan: Ketogenic paleo
Stats: 186/167/125 Female 5'4"
BF:trying to quit
Progress: 31%
Location: So. California
Default

Thanks merpig I am looking into that web site now.
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