But, but, you're the one who posted the links! I merely poked holes in them. Now you post a picture of guys moving a goal post, perhaps implying I'm changing my claims?!? But, but, I didn't make any claim, you did! You said that there isn't overcompensation or even compensation, and I merely pointed out that they don't actually know because they didn't measure. Yet they still acknowledge compensation by assumption. Basically, the data you provided is unreliable. There is no truth to be had from it.

You present data for us to peruse. We poke holes in it. You're not happy because your data is found lacking. You complain every which way. Huh hu.

Bwhahahahaha... making far-reaching and speculative claims about the studies is no "poking holes" its grasping for straws and yes, moving goalposts.

The argument that John Cloud makes is that exercise makes you hungry. I provided studies that show no additional hunger and/or compensation in response to exercise and you've provided.... nothing. I've already acknowledged that there are "compensators". Yes, some people DO in fact get hungry in response to exercise however this is not usually the case.

Translation: It doesn't fit my belief system so I will ignore it.

In order to show that it's not "usually the case", you'd have to present every single paper ever published about the matter, or one paper which reviews all those papers. Do you know of such a paper? If not, then you make an unsupportable claim. Incidentally, I can make the opposite claim and get away with it just as easily. Here it is: Everybody usually grows more hungry following exercise. There, I said it. It is unequivocal and unambiguous. And there's nothing you can do about it. Why am I so cocky? Because, again, if you want to refute it, you must present every single paper ever published on the subject, or one paper which reviews all those papers.

Also, "usually the case" applies to things all humans have in common. Like a stomach, a mouth, and a brain. "usually the case" also applies to those organs' function. Like, growing hungry following exertion and eating according to hunger. I'd like you to try to refute this. But don't try too hard, or you just might work up an appetite in the process.

For me, what drove hunger was low blood sugar. After working out my blood sugar was low, I felt tired and craved carbs. But by working out 'smarter' not harder, I didn't drop blood sugar too low because I was using fat more than sugar. So both of you could be right: Exercise stimulates more eating and exercise stimulates less eating. :-)

So how does one exercise just enough to gently boost glucagon but not exacerbate the other stuff? What about just low level aerobic activity after a high fat snack? Or what are some other ways to stimulate glucagon without exercise?

Using a heart rate monitor to stay within the fat-burning zone is what I was alluding to.

Did you actually use a meter to get a reading? According to Dr. Eades, it isn't (usually) the fact that blood sugar is low but that it is dropping. So you could actually have rather high blood sugar and still feel hypoglycemic. In fact, this is very common in pre-diabetics and type 2 diabetics.

I used to get that too until I started keeping my carbs much, much lower.

Maybe if you opted for a lower carb diet you wouldn't feel that either. If I recall you were pretty high for a low carber.

No, I was going by how I felt. Too low blood sugar leaves me shaky and cold. A trainer put me on the treadmill for a stress test and determined where my best pace is for fatburning. It showed me that I was running too much too fast and not getting enough recovery rest. Slowing down has allowed my body to make better use of fat over carb. Carb is still necessary but not at the levels I used to eat.

Those two guys have been butting heads over this. I put my two cents in to show I've had it both ways: Gaining weight while running a lot and losing weight while running a lot.

That's very interesting. I was checking my blood sugar a lot last year before I started IF. I could never find a strong correlation between BG and extreme crashes - maybe this explains it. On the other hand, I don't think my blood sugar varied much at all - it was always between 80 and 90 if I recall correctly.

While we're here, any particular blood glucose meter you guys like?

More red herrings...

I'm not sure what would satisfy you in terms of evidence Martin - short of testing everybody in the world. Do a pubmed search - the majority of studies show NO INCREASE IN APPETITE/SUBSEQUENT COMPENSATION IN RESPONSE TO EXERCISE. You clearly didn't bother to look at the literature I posted as on of the King et. al papers is in fact a review. Here are some clips from it;

"The relationship between exercise-induced energy deficits and food consumption has been subjected to much scrutiny, and the evidence suggests that there is no increase in hunger or energy intake as a result of an exercise-induced energy deficit (Reger et al. 1986; Reger & Alison, 1987; Thompson et al. 1988; Kissileff et al. 1990; King et al. 1994; King & Blundell, 1995)"

"Only one study has created energy deficits using both methods (food deprivation and exercise-induced) in a single study using the same individuals (Hubert el al. 1997). This study confirmed that the energy deficit created by food deprivation (meal omission) significantly increased hunger and energy intake, whereas the exercise-induced energy deficit did not."

"Many studies have shown that following a bout of intense exercise (> 60 % maximum O2 uptake) hunger is actually suppressed (Reger et al. 1986; Reger & Alison, 1987; Thompson et al. 1988; Kissileff et al. 1990; King et al. 1994; King & Blundell, 1995)"

Again Martin - show me a comparable quantity/quality of studies that show otherwise and then you will have a case. Until then, my contention stands: In most people, exercise DOES NOT INCREASE HUNGER.

Here's the King paper that discusses the research on the issue.
http://journals.cambridge.org/downl...d1724b76fbc7feb

If you are one of those people who do find that exercise makes you hungry - here are some ways to curb post workout hunger;

1. Eat intuitively and mindfully - especially after you exercise. Make an especially concerted effort to make good choices after your exercise session.

2. It may be more of a function of when you had your last meal. Try eating 30-60 min before a workout. This will help curb post-workout munchies. Tolerance levels will vary here.

3. Be sure you're eating adequate protein. Getting enough protein will help keep hunger at bay - especially in the peri-workout window.