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  #1   ^
Old Sun, Jun-08-14, 21:28
wbahn's Avatar
wbahn wbahn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,334
 
Plan: Atkins-ish, post-WLS
Stats: 377/214.5/177 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Default 100 lb lost -- only took 12 years!

I started LCing in Jan 2002. My start weight was 377 lb and my goal was 177 lb. For five months I did really good and got down to 325 lb. Then one bowl of ice cream that I got talked into derailed the whole works. It was at this point that I finally truly believed in the concept of sugar addiction and discovered that I am very much addicted to sugar. For the next nearly twelve years it was an ongoing battle of restart LC and then get derailed by one thing or another. Most rebounds, of course, left me at a higher weight than before. At one point I was 408 lb. My most successful attempt was in early 2009 when I got down to 304 lb, when a business trip derailed me and I ended up at about 387 lb.

In 2005 I was diagnosed with Type II diabetes. Sometimes I could control it and sometimes I couldn't. My determination and willpower couldn't overcome the sugar addiction long enough. In April 2013 I ended up on insulin, but that left me in a Catch-22. If I took enough insulin in the morning to match the sugar/carbs that I was consuming, then I HAD to consume that much in order to avoid a crash, but if I consumed what I knew what the right dose for being a good boy, then if I wasn't a good boy my sugars would be unacceptably high. Since I couldn't be a good boy reliably enough, my A1c ended up at 12.4, which is about what it was when I was first diagnosed. Something drastic had to be done.

A bit before that I had heard that gastric bypass surgery had a high rate of effectively curing Type II diabetes overnight -- literally. I did some research and discovered that this was, amazingly, true. So I went to see a bariatric surgeon and ended up deciding that this was my best bet if I wanted to avoid the serious diabetic complications that I was setting myself up for. To be honest, the weight loss potential was seen as a nice side benefit and had it not been for the diabetes path I was on I'm pretty sure I would have never considered it and continued trying to find the willpower to tackle things with LC alone.

I finally got all of the preliminaries done and had the surgery on March 9th of this year. While I wasn't one of the folks that got off all their diabetic meds the next day (and I have met several that did) my insulin was down 90% the next day. It has been three months since the surgery and now I am only on 2000mg of metformin a day and my sugars are in the 100 mg/dl range. Furthermore, I have gone from 333 lb the day before the surgery to 269 lb this morning -- 108 lb lost from my original LC start and 92 lb to go to my original (and still current) goal. Despite some post-surgical complications that made the first roughly four weeks pretty miserable, I am in very good shape now with more energy that I had before and am, thus far, in rock solid control of my eating and, particularly, my sugar addiction.

I'm hoping -- and with some confidence -- to make my 177 lb goal by my 50th birthday on Jan 26, 2015. I only have to average 12 lb/mo between now and then and over the last three months I've averaged 21 lb/mo, so it seems fairly reasonable.
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  #2   ^
Old Sun, Jun-08-14, 21:43
Sereen Sereen is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,632
 
Plan: Zero
Stats: 95/95/95 Female 50
BF:0
Progress: 36%
Default

Congratulations! Your perseverance is remarkable and you deserve all your success and more. You're very inspirational.
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Jun-10-14, 03:15
Just Jo's Avatar
Just Jo Just Jo is offline
A'72 Lifer Hard Core
Posts: 15,107
 
Plan: A'72 Induction Lifer + IF
Stats: 265/114/130 Female 5'4"
BF:Not so much now!
Progress: 112%
Location: South Central New Mexico
Default

Huge Congrats on your losses so far, wbahn!!!!

I have a couple of questions, hope you can answer them for me:
I heard that before wls, one is put on a LC type diet for 4-6 months before the surgery, is this true? And if so, how many carbs?

Also how much are you allowed to eat now, in terms of carbs and kcals?

Thank you in advance for you answers and I wish you heartfelt success on your personal LC WOE journey!
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Jun-10-14, 12:45
wbahn's Avatar
wbahn wbahn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,334
 
Plan: Atkins-ish, post-WLS
Stats: 377/214.5/177 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Jo
Huge Congrats on your losses so far, wbahn!!!!

I have a couple of questions, hope you can answer them for me:
I heard that before wls, one is put on a LC type diet for 4-6 months before the surgery, is this true? And if so, how many carbs?

Also how much are you allowed to eat now, in terms of carbs and kcals?

Thank you in advance for you answers and I wish you heartfelt success on your personal LC WOE journey!


Thanks a lot!

The details of what's done/required vary from surgeon to surgeon and also depend on insurance requirements. Plus, there are three common types of surgery that are performed and each has its own peculiarities.

In my case (and I had the Roux-en-Y procedure because it is the one that is most effective at treating Type II diabetes) I had to be on a medically supervised diet for at least six months. No requirement that it be LC or any other particular diet, just that it be medically supervised.

Post surgery (for this procedure) you need to avoid certain types of foods as they cause "dumping syndrome" (a fancy term for severe diarrhea) because the duodenum has been bypassed. The biggest culprit is sugar. But fats in any significant quantity are also problems as is alcohol. You are also highly discouraged from drinking carbonated beverages.

Your intake is limited to about 2 oz (volume) per meal, but this increases as the new stomach pouch expands and eventually settles in at about 8 oz. Once the initial liquid/pureed/soft diet phases are over (about six weeks total) you are typically at about 500 Cal/day (say 300 Cal to 800 Cal) with the general guideline that you eat protein first, then veggies, then fruit, then starches in very limited quantities. Most people stay at this level throughout most of their weight loss phase and then increase it to a sustainable level as they near the end of that.
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Jun-10-14, 13:04
jessdamess's Avatar
jessdamess jessdamess is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,798
 
Plan: LCHF, 100g
Stats: 252/165/150 Female 69.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 85%
Location: Northeast TN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sereen
Congratulations! Your perseverance is remarkable and you deserve all your success and more. You're very inspirational.

Sereen put it perfectly. Congrats!
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Jun-10-14, 13:53
wbahn's Avatar
wbahn wbahn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,334
 
Plan: Atkins-ish, post-WLS
Stats: 377/214.5/177 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Default

Thanks!

There are certainly some that would argue that having WLS is the antithesis of having perseverance and I can see their point. On the other hand, some people can choose to avoid alcohol or gambling and stick to it largely because they are addicts. People that aren't sugar addicts can overcome the temptation for breads and sweets and get by on willpower alone. For sugar addicts is it a quantum level increase in difficulty often venturing into the near-impossible.

Having said that, I sure wish I had gone the WLS route a decade (or two) ago. My life would have been so much better and healthier for my 30's and 40's and I wouldn't have missed out on so much during the prime of my life. Also, I probably would have never developed diabetes. But it is what it is. I am very much looking forward to life in my 50's and 60's (and beyond) at a healthy weight that will let me still do a lot (but certainly not all) of those things that I've missed out on.
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Jun-10-14, 14:05
Sereen Sereen is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,632
 
Plan: Zero
Stats: 95/95/95 Female 50
BF:0
Progress: 36%
Default

My understanding of any WLS is that it is not 'the easy way out,' nor is it done without consideration and commitment to making it work.
I stand by what I said about you, and wish you nothing but continued success.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Jun-11-14, 02:47
Just Jo's Avatar
Just Jo Just Jo is offline
A'72 Lifer Hard Core
Posts: 15,107
 
Plan: A'72 Induction Lifer + IF
Stats: 265/114/130 Female 5'4"
BF:Not so much now!
Progress: 112%
Location: South Central New Mexico
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wbahn
Thanks a lot!

The details of what's done/required vary from surgeon to surgeon and also depend on insurance requirements. Plus, there are three common types of surgery that are performed and each has its own peculiarities.

In my case (and I had the Roux-en-Y procedure because it is the one that is most effective at treating Type II diabetes) I had to be on a medically supervised diet for at least six months. No requirement that it be LC or any other particular diet, just that it be medically supervised.

Post surgery (for this procedure) you need to avoid certain types of foods as they cause "dumping syndrome" (a fancy term for severe diarrhea) because the duodenum has been bypassed. The biggest culprit is sugar. But fats in any significant quantity are also problems as is alcohol. You are also highly discouraged from drinking carbonated beverages.

Your intake is limited to about 2 oz (volume) per meal, but this increases as the new stomach pouch expands and eventually settles in at about 8 oz. Once the initial liquid/pureed/soft diet phases are over (about six weeks total) you are typically at about 500 Cal/day (say 300 Cal to 800 Cal) with the general guideline that you eat protein first, then veggies, then fruit, then starches in very limited quantities. Most people stay at this level throughout most of their weight loss phase and then increase it to a sustainable level as they near the end of that.

Wow thanks for the info!! I did some research before I started (again) doing LC because I thought for a nanosecond that I might be a tiny bit interested in wls -- but I had no medical conditions except being morbidly obese that would qualify me (I am "text book" healthy except for the FAT part). I knew about the supervised diet 6 months prior to surgery -- in some cases I read that it was LC -- guess depends on the type of surgery and the surgeon as you mentioned above. And I knew post wls, that kcals were very limited and that it was kinda -LC. And I was too cheap to pay for it out of my own pocket and it would STILL not teach me how to eat properly for my carb-sensitive metabolism.

After all my research and under the supervision of my doctor, I decided to do LC my way (I've ALWAYS lost tons of weight but gained it back 'cause I never finished the plan). I restricted my kcals to 800 per day and 6 grams of carbs. I figured if it was good enough for post-wls peeps, that was good enough for me!

I know that under Atkins, one is not concerned about kcals -- at least not in A '72. But I needed the data because I am an overeater -- I can literally sit and graze all DAY LONG and I have portion control issues. I don't know about you, but I love the sensation of being "full" when I am done eating -- so I only eat one meal a day, in the late afternoon.

It will be a year on 5 July (My Independence Day from FAT Jo) and I have lost 142 lbs. I am now in maintenance (which I have never accomplished before but I will this TIME) at <1400 kcals and 10-12 carbs daily. I have not lost or gained a pound in 28 days... I didn't feel this awesome in my 20s, 30s or 40s!!! So the 50s, is the new 30s for me!

Sorry this was so long...
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Jun-11-14, 03:10
Just Jo's Avatar
Just Jo Just Jo is offline
A'72 Lifer Hard Core
Posts: 15,107
 
Plan: A'72 Induction Lifer + IF
Stats: 265/114/130 Female 5'4"
BF:Not so much now!
Progress: 112%
Location: South Central New Mexico
Default

Wow... let me explain my last post!

I hope that my post above isn't read as a negative comment to what you have accomplished wbahn in losing all your weight. I just wanted to explain why I had asked you those questions.

I applaud you for everything you have done to improve your health. You are well on your way to reaching your personal goal weight! Truly, I wish you heartfelt success as you continue on your LC WOE journey!
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Jun-11-14, 03:58
wbahn's Avatar
wbahn wbahn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,334
 
Plan: Atkins-ish, post-WLS
Stats: 377/214.5/177 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Jo
Wow thanks for the info!! I did some research before I started (again) doing LC because I thought for a nanosecond that I might be a tiny bit interested in wls -- but I had no medical conditions except being morbidly obese that would qualify me (I am "text book" healthy except for the FAT part). I knew about the supervised diet 6 months prior to surgery -- in some cases I read that it was LC -- guess depends on the type of surgery and the surgeon as you mentioned above. And I knew post wls, that kcals were very limited and that it was kinda -LC. And I was too cheap to pay for it out of my own pocket and it would STILL not teach me how to eat properly for my carb-sensitive metabolism.

After all my research and under the supervision of my doctor, I decided to do LC my way (I've ALWAYS lost tons of weight but gained it back 'cause I never finished the plan). I restricted my kcals to 800 per day and 6 grams of carbs. I figured if it was good enough for post-wls peeps, that was good enough for me!

I know that under Atkins, one is not concerned about kcals -- at least not in A '72. But I needed the data because I am an overeater -- I can literally sit and graze all DAY LONG and I have portion control issues. I don't know about you, but I love the sensation of being "full" when I am done eating -- so I only eat one meal a day, in the late afternoon.

It will be a year on 5 July (My Independence Day from FAT Jo) and I have lost 142 lbs. I am now in maintenance (which I have never accomplished before but I will this TIME) at <1400 kcals and 10-12 carbs daily. I have not lost or gained a pound in 28 days... I didn't feel this awesome in my 20s, 30s or 40s!!! So the 50s, is the new 30s for me!

Sorry this was so long...


It sounds like you've got a good handle on things and you have made a HUGE accomplishment. Whether we are talking about someone that has lost 150 pounds "your" way (i.e., "diet" alone) or 150 pounds "my" way (i.e., WLS), the challenge is always the long-term maintenance of that loss. Both methods are tools and both methods can be used improperly and both methods require long-term commitment in order to achieve long-term success. While it is probably easier for post-WLS patients to maintain, there are certainly lots of people that are able to regain most, all, or even more of their weight back despite the surgery.
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, Jun-11-14, 04:00
wbahn's Avatar
wbahn wbahn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,334
 
Plan: Atkins-ish, post-WLS
Stats: 377/214.5/177 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Jo
Wow... let me explain my last post!

I hope that my post above isn't read as a negative comment to what you have accomplished wbahn in losing all your weight. I just wanted to explain why I had asked you those questions.

I applaud you for everything you have done to improve your health. You are well on your way to reaching your personal goal weight! Truly, I wish you heartfelt success as you continue on your LC WOE journey!


Oh, absolutely not! I didn't take anything you said as any kind of negative comment. As you applaud me, let me assure you that I wholeheartedly applaud you and your success and wish you the absolute best in your efforts to maintain for life. It won't be easy for either of us, but it is something that both of us simply have to do.
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  #12   ^
Old Wed, Jun-11-14, 04:11
wbahn's Avatar
wbahn wbahn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,334
 
Plan: Atkins-ish, post-WLS
Stats: 377/214.5/177 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sereen
My understanding of any WLS is that it is not 'the easy way out,' nor is it done without consideration and commitment to making it work.
I stand by what I said about you, and wish you nothing but continued success.


Thanks.

At the last support group meeting the topic was for everyone to describe how they had "put skin in the game" in order to succeed. The coordinator had in mind things like relationships with friends and family (some people lost one or both because the other party couldn't accept the person's decision) or bets that they made with someone about whether they would be below a certain weight by a certain date. When they got to me (and because of where I was sitting I was the next to last person that spoke) I pointed out that we had ALL put skin in the game by having the surgery in the first place. Unlike a diet that you can try for a while and decide if you thought it was going to work, this was a one-way trip. We let some doctor make sushi out of our insides and there was no going back if it didn't work (technically some of the procedures are reversible, but it is only a tiny, tiny fraction that are ever reversed).
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Jun-12-14, 03:00
Just Jo's Avatar
Just Jo Just Jo is offline
A'72 Lifer Hard Core
Posts: 15,107
 
Plan: A'72 Induction Lifer + IF
Stats: 265/114/130 Female 5'4"
BF:Not so much now!
Progress: 112%
Location: South Central New Mexico
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wbahn
Oh, absolutely not! I didn't take anything you said as any kind of negative comment. As you applaud me, let me assure you that I wholeheartedly applaud you and your success and wish you the absolute best in your efforts to maintain for life. It won't be easy for either of us, but it is something that both of us simply have to do.


I agree, the success rate according to statistics for losing the weight by any method (WLS, LC, WW etc) AND keeping it off for LIFE are not in our favor. But gosh darn it -- we are BOTH going to prove "them" wrong!!

Quote:
I pointed out that we had ALL put skin in the game by having the surgery in the first place. Unlike a diet that you can try for a while and decide if you thought it was going to work, this was a one-way trip. We let some doctor make sushi out of our insides and there was no going back if it didn't work (technically some of the procedures are reversible, but it is only a tiny, tiny fraction that are ever reversed).


Wow I never thought of it that way... that WLS was a one-way trip... actually I think all of you that have elected to go that route are so brave, it's scary to think about going under the knife... one does tend to hear the horror stories... And I hear that out of pocket expenses can be pretty high if not covered by insurance.
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Jun-12-14, 04:05
wbahn's Avatar
wbahn wbahn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,334
 
Plan: Atkins-ish, post-WLS
Stats: 377/214.5/177 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Jo
I agree, the success rate according to statistics for losing the weight by any method (WLS, LC, WW etc) AND keeping it off for LIFE are not in our favor. But gosh darn it -- we are BOTH going to prove "them" wrong!!


The bariatric nutritionist cited an NIH study (but couldn't give me enough information to track it down and I've thus far been unsuccessful) that looked at people that had lost at least 100 lb and then whether they had kept it off five years later. Overall, the number was depressing -- just 3%. But for bariatric surgery (all forms lumped together) it was about 70% worldwide and in the U.S. and a few other countries it was in the 90+% range. The reason for some countries being much higher than others is attributed to better pre-surgery screening and education and post-surgery follow-up and support. I had to attend a nutrition class specific to my particular surgery and I had to be evaluated by a psychologist whose goal was to determine if I was sufficiently likely to be able to follow the post-surgery guidelines for the long-term. Post-surgery they have monthly support group meetings that are free and I will have twelve monthly follow-up visits with the surgeon.

I would really like to find that paper.

Quote:
Wow I never thought of it that way... that WLS was a one-way trip... actually I think all of you that have elected to go that route are so brave, it's scary to think about going under the knife... one does tend to hear the horror stories... And I hear that out of pocket expenses can be pretty high if not covered by insurance.


There are certainly a lot of horror stories from a few decades back and many of them were well deserved. I was talking to the surgeon about this and he said that WLS has come so far in the last decade that he is still amazed (he's been doing it for over twenty-five years). He pointed out that not only are the underlying mechanisms much better understood, but so is the degree and type of nutritional support that is needed afterward in terms of supplements. The surgical procedures have also advanced to a point where the risks are comparable to things like having your gall bladder or appendix removed.

The expenses are a whole other issue. My insurance company covers a max of $15k and at the present time we are looking at about $14k in out-of-pocket costs. That about $100/lb of weight loss ($200/lb if you include what the insurance covered). Not trivial.
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  #15   ^
Old Fri, Jun-13-14, 01:59
Just Jo's Avatar
Just Jo Just Jo is offline
A'72 Lifer Hard Core
Posts: 15,107
 
Plan: A'72 Induction Lifer + IF
Stats: 265/114/130 Female 5'4"
BF:Not so much now!
Progress: 112%
Location: South Central New Mexico
Default

I had no idea it was that expensive. Thank you for sharing that aspect of your experience as well.

As I said before, wishing you heartfelt success as you continue your LC WOE journey -- I'm down here in HOT HOT southern NM cheering you onward and DOWNARD!!

Last edited by Just Jo : Fri, Jun-13-14 at 02:00. Reason: Silly fingers...
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