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  #31   ^
Old Sat, Apr-14-07, 21:08
kaypeeoh kaypeeoh is offline
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Posts: 1,216
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 185/180/165
BF:
Progress: 25%
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One can find studies that support the use of soy and a similar number that are against it. I find the 'pro' studies more believable. With age the levels of testosterone in a man falls as the levels of estrogen rises. This coincides with a rise in prostate disease. It may be coincidental, nobody is sure about this.

The estrogenic compounds in soy could be telling the body that there is enough estrogen in the blood and it doesn't need to make more. Or it could be the estrogen receptors in the prostate are triggering growth of the prostate when estrogen attaches. Soy compounds can fill the receptor sites, blocking estrogen from attaching while not stimulating prostate growth.

My feelings about soy are because it's a major food in the east where there is a lot less prostate cancer when compared with the west. Again, it could be a coincidence. The same theories apply to breast cancer. Some breast cancer is triggered by estrogen. Soy might block the estrogen receptors. There is also less breast cancer in the east. Could it be the soy diet is a reason?

I think most cancers are fed by carbs. I think eating less carbs should help prevent cancer. Even my doctor agrees with that. Again, just my two cent opinion.
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  #32   ^
Old Sat, Apr-14-07, 21:29
lkpetro lkpetro is offline
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Posts: 191
 
Plan: a mixture
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 64
BF:
Progress:
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No, I do agree with this theory of ampiohotencism, and the reseach on selective estrogen response modifiers is persuasive and biochemically sound. phytoesterogens bind very well with estrogen receptors thus lowering estrogen levels, the same could be said about red clover, or many of the other isoflavones in the legume family. The differnce between the use of soy in the East and the use of soy in the West is tremendous. 'soymilk' as we know it here is a foreign substance to the traditional eastern cultures that have been studied. I would say the comment "it's a major food in the east" is a misnomer, soy is really not a major food and never really has been. The average american consumes more soy than the average Chinese person, plus the soy that they consume is mostly fermented like miso, tempeh, natto, ect. and not commerical soy milk or soy burgers. I'm not antisoy, I just believe Americans way over eat it, and eat it in forms that are overly processed and possibly dangerous
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  #33   ^
Old Sun, Apr-15-07, 07:25
JL53563's Avatar
JL53563 JL53563 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,209
 
Plan: The Real Human Diet
Stats: 225/165/180 Male 5'8"
BF:?/?/8.6%
Progress: 133%
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obsessive
I love low carbing and running, I can run forever. But due to my recent 6 month stint on no-fats and no carbs(I was eating only egg beaters, protein powder and 99% fat free ground turkey) I got myself to 11% bodyfat and running 7 days a week, 8 to 9 miles. I was having to take Ibuprofen before I ran, was bingeing on sugar every 4 days, and wigging out on my family.
So a month ago I decided to do Atkins because I keep reading that it controls cravings by eating fats.
My brain and body feel so good but I hate that it made me gain 5 pounds.
Where I was sunken in on the sides of my hips and glutes, are puffed out now. I hate that. I am running only 7 miles, 6 days a week now.


You gained weight on Atkins because your bodyfat was probably too low. 10-12% is considered essential for women. This is the minimum amount your body needs to fuction properly. Most top women athletes are in the 14-20% range, which of course is still quite low.
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  #34   ^
Old Sun, Apr-15-07, 09:43
Gostrydr Gostrydr is offline
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Posts: 1,175
 
Plan: close to zero carbs
Stats: 225/206/210 Male 73
BF:
Progress:
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Ahhh Kaypeeoh , not so fast my friend..
soy is not a staple in the east as one has been led to believe.

They use it only as a condiment ,hardly ever as a main course and the average intake is around 14 grams...a tablespoon

Plus the "peasants" who do take in more have a higher rate of thyroid cancer than those who consume less.

When I go to chinese,japanese and other eastern resteraunts, all I see is menus loaded with Beef,Pork,Chicken,Fish..

While working at this store ,I actualy took the time to visit about 25 chinese resteraunts here in the Valley and asked them about their soy/tofu consumption.

Their answer?? Mostly meat and veggies, with most leaning toward fish and veggies.

Hardly scientific,but alot of these people were transplants from China or Japan and they all shook their heads when asked if they ate 'alot" of soy products.

some did say they would eat fermented products like Kim chee or Natto as a meal,but that was only in a great while.

Never heard of Sweet and Sour tofu or Mongolian tofu.

and another thing. From my years of running a health food store, I have seen first hand the deleterious effects of soy.

I was going to drop it from our stores,but alas, I was out numbered by my employees. So when we sold it,we handed out info to help guide people on its use and possible side effects.

All in all it is really just a cheap and incomplete protein source, missing crucial growth promoting aminos and the estrogen is quite high..and it happens to be one of the most allergenic foods on the earth.

I tell people if you want to have it make sure it is no more than a tablespoon a day.
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  #35   ^
Old Sun, Apr-15-07, 10:00
kaypeeoh kaypeeoh is offline
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Posts: 1,216
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 185/180/165
BF:
Progress: 25%
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http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/81/2/397

This could go on and on. I'm outta here, it's time for my run. :-)
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  #36   ^
Old Sun, Apr-15-07, 10:59
Gostrydr Gostrydr is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,175
 
Plan: close to zero carbs
Stats: 225/206/210 Male 73
BF:
Progress:
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oh come on..we can both google stuff all day.

again soy is what it is..It's better for making belts and mats than for a food source.

I don't want to get into natural inibitors like phytates that cause mineral deficiencies, but you being a low carber and such, have to know that vegetable protein is a lot harder to assimilate and less bioavailable than animal sources.

And there is growing evidence that plant sterols are completely inert in the human body.

I hope you have a great run.
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  #37   ^
Old Sun, Apr-15-07, 17:52
kaypeeoh kaypeeoh is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,216
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 185/180/165
BF:
Progress: 25%
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Thanks but actually it was miserable. 40mph wind in both directions, no clouds, I failed to maintain 10:00 pace for the 10 miles. I ran next to a construction site so I was constantly downwind of a duststorm. And now I'm both sunburned and windburned. But I loved it. After the run I refueled with a big glass of soymilk. ;-)

I always go back to our knuckle-dragging ancestors. We evolved to survive on most anything: veggies, meat, nuts, bugs, you-name-it.
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  #38   ^
Old Sun, Apr-15-07, 18:33
zman's Avatar
zman zman is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 67
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 135/129/125 Female almost 5'6"
BF:?
Progress: 60%
Location: Wisconsin
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I forgot the 1 tsp of cinnamon in that coconut oil cookie recipe I wrote about in post #25.
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  #39   ^
Old Sun, Apr-15-07, 19:34
lkpetro lkpetro is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 191
 
Plan: a mixture
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 64
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaypeeoh
Thanks but actually it was miserable. 40mph wind in both directions, no clouds, I failed to maintain 10:00 pace for the 10 miles. I ran next to a construction site so I was constantly downwind of a duststorm. And now I'm both sunburned and windburned. But I loved it. After the run I refueled with a big glass of soymilk. ;-)

I always go back to our knuckle-dragging ancestors. We evolved to survive on most anything: veggies, meat, nuts, bugs, you-name-it.


geez that sucks, I feel bad for those doing Boston, worst weather ever, glad I live on the west coast
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  #40   ^
Old Mon, Apr-16-07, 06:39
obsessive's Avatar
obsessive obsessive is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 183
 
Plan: daily exercise,LC,LFat
Stats: 115/108/105 Female 4'11"
BF:caliper16%/15%/12%
Progress: 70%
Location: a Cornhusker in MO
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[QUOTE=JL53563]You gained weight on Atkins because your bodyfat was probably too low. 10-12% is considered essential for women. This is the minimum amount your body needs to fuction properly. Most top women athletes are in the 14-20% range, which of course is still quite low.[/QUOTE


Thanks, I realize that now, as of yesterday I QUIT Atkins. More than 15% bodyfat is tooooo much for me.
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