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  #91   ^
Old Wed, Sep-01-10, 17:05
LaZigeuner's Avatar
LaZigeuner LaZigeuner is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,065
 
Plan: ZULCA!
Stats: 353/279.2/175 Female 64 in.
BF: For now...
Progress: 41%
Location: U.S.
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Does anyone know what Dr. K says about hunger and feeling hypoglycemic? Specifically, when starting his plan? I'm on Day Two, using ratios 1p:2.5f:0.8c. It is less protein and carb than I'm used to, and about the same fat. Yesterday, I was really shaky and out of it, but attributed it to inadequate sleep. Today, however, has been worse, and I nearly passed out, so ate some berries stirred into a sourcream/yogurt mix. I feel a little better, and am about to go drink some cream (I think it'll help a lot), but until I get my books from Poland (I assume it'll take about a month!), I'm relying on ALC and other online resources (like hyperlipid).

Thanks for any insight. Sorry this was disjointed.
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  #92   ^
Old Wed, Sep-01-10, 17:36
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,010
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
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Yes, he says you can add a few grams of carbs for situations like that. I think the number is, 15-20 should do the trick. Just like what you did!

He also says you can have more grams of protein (and correspondingly less fat) in the first weeks, especially for older people. I think that means about age 40 or when things start to go south.

The reason is, it takes at least a few days for the enzymes and other metabolic "helpers" to downregulate carb enzymes and upregulate fat enzymes. And it can take weeks for the organs to get used to the switch to running on fat instead of protein/carb.
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  #93   ^
Old Wed, Sep-01-10, 19:20
LaZigeuner's Avatar
LaZigeuner LaZigeuner is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,065
 
Plan: ZULCA!
Stats: 353/279.2/175 Female 64 in.
BF: For now...
Progress: 41%
Location: U.S.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seejay
Yes, he says you can add a few grams of carbs for situations like that. I think the number is, 15-20 should do the trick. Just like what you did!

He also says you can have more grams of protein (and correspondingly less fat) in the first weeks, especially for older people. I think that means about age 40 or when things start to go south.

The reason is, it takes at least a few days for the enzymes and other metabolic "helpers" to downregulate carb enzymes and upregulate fat enzymes. And it can take weeks for the organs to get used to the switch to running on fat instead of protein/carb.


Phew, what a relief! Thank you so much for this information, that is a big help to me

I'm ~39.5, which rounds up to "40 or when things start to go south"... but I try not to dwell on it!

Thanks again, Seejay
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  #94   ^
Old Wed, Sep-01-10, 19:23
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,010
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
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you are welcome! i love to see more OD folks.
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  #95   ^
Old Wed, Sep-01-10, 19:32
ubizmo's Avatar
ubizmo ubizmo is offline
New Member
Posts: 384
 
Plan: mumble
Stats: 273/230/200 Male 73 inches
BF:yup
Progress: 59%
Location: Philadelphia, USA
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I have found that when my carbs go too low, as on Atkins Induction or zero carb, I start to feel edgy, and it doesn't go away. I assume this is caused by the cortisol I'm putting out, to keep gluconeogenesis going. When I was younger I didn't experience this, but now, at 57, I do. It's probably the result of a sluggish liver, compromised by fructose, alcohol, and PUFA. The OD has enough carb to keep me from getting edgy. For the sake of my liver, I favor starches (obviously in small quantities) over anything with fructose.

Ubizmo
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  #96   ^
Old Wed, Sep-01-10, 19:55
Myrmecia Myrmecia is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 28
 
Plan: Palaeo/Groves/Kwasniewski
Stats: 171/171/171 Male 177 cm
BF:18%/18%/18%
Progress:
Location: Canberra
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Is it possible for people (like my wife, 61 yo), whose gall bladder was removed about 15 years ago, to adopt the Optimal Diet?

As you would know, the gall bladder is a key organ for the digestion of fats.
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  #97   ^
Old Wed, Sep-01-10, 20:38
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,010
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
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Ubizmo that is exactly like me. I don't like the hyper adrenaline buzz of VLC. Also my liver was compromised too, just like yours, it sounds like.
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  #98   ^
Old Wed, Sep-01-10, 20:41
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
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Posts: 3,010
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrmecia
Is it possible for people (like my wife, 61 yo), whose gall bladder was removed about 15 years ago, to adopt the Optimal Diet?
That would be a question for the naturopath or doc - but I will offer this interesting quote I saw once on the Crossfit nutrition board, from Dr. Smith, an ND ("Doctor as Teacher"). He gives his patients like your wife, ox bile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Garrett Smith
Liver makes bile, gallbladder stores bile, bile is squirted out as necessary for fat-containing meals. The gallbladder DOES have a function, as is evidenced in these situations!

If the liver is overloaded, the bile is full of "toxins" (I don't like the word either, it is a necessary evil). A normal route of the liver's detoxification is through the bile (and hence through the stool). Over time, these "toxins" marinate the gallbladder, resulting in gallbladder issues (attacks/cholecystitis and stones/cholelithiasis).

With nearly any GI issue these days, conventional doctors do not hesitate in any way to remove people's (especially women's) gallbladders. The gallbladder "group" is the 4 F's--Female, Fat, Forty, and Fertile. Removal of the GB does not fix the problem that the liver has (in terms of being overloaded and creating toxic bile) while removing the body's ability to store bile for use with fatty meals (one is left with a trickle of bile versus a big bolus). Thus we have a giant segment of the population unable to digest fats (that's on top of the fact that most people are eating rancid/hydrogenated/plasticized fats).

So, these people need bile. Ox bile is what is commonly used. I provide it to my patients in the form of Hypo-Gest from Priority One. Typically 1-6 tablets (this is determined black box style by the patient) taken in the MIDDLE of a meal. This will often remedy problems immediately. For example, I helped a patient relieve her gallbladder pain (and vomiting with fatty meals) that radiated to her back (classic!) with 1 tablet per meal.

Such a simple solution. Too bad it doesn't make Big Pharma any money or more doctors would actually know about it.

BTW, the liver is overloaded b/c nearly everyone's guts are compromised--the portal vein takes all of the "stuff" from the intestines directly to the liver to be "processed". Got bad guts, you got a bad liver. Gotta fix the gut if you ever want to fix the liver. Want to fix the gut? Get the Body Ecology Diet book by Donna Gates (www.BodyEcologyDiet.com). For those of you on this board who think I know what I'm talking about, this book has finally put together many of the missing pieces (yes, even the Paleo/Zone has holes one can drive a truck through) for me.

I don't have time for skeptics, believe it if you wish. Or even better, try it out!
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  #99   ^
Old Thu, Sep-02-10, 03:59
Myrmecia Myrmecia is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 28
 
Plan: Palaeo/Groves/Kwasniewski
Stats: 171/171/171 Male 177 cm
BF:18%/18%/18%
Progress:
Location: Canberra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seejay
Get the Body Ecology Diet book by Donna Gates (www.BodyEcologyDiet.com). ... this book has finally put together many of the missing pieces (yes, even the Paleo/Zone has holes one can drive a truck through) for me. ... I don't have time for skeptics

I wonder what Garrett Smith means in the above quote by palaeo eating having holes big enough to drive a truck through. (I can't speak for the Zone diet as it is not palaeo.) Google the Evolutionary Health Principle and you'll see why I think palaeo eating and lifestyle is impregnable!

But thanks for making me aware of the Body Ecology approach.
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  #100   ^
Old Thu, Sep-02-10, 10:16
krystalr's Avatar
krystalr krystalr is offline
Induction ≠ Atkins
Posts: 5,704
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 265/170/180 Female 69 inches
BF:28%
Progress: 112%
Location: Frisco, TX
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I posted in your other thread, Myrmecia, but I have had my gallbladder removed and have no issues continuing with my high fat diet. It was a little bit uncomfortable while I was reovering (due to the air they pump in for the surgery) but that was the only time that I had any trouble. Once the air moved, I was good to go.

Mine was removed because it had shut down completely and had become infected. It was not functioning at all, and for who knows how long. Once the infection started was when the pain started. Anything I ate set off an attack, so it came out.
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  #101   ^
Old Thu, Sep-02-10, 15:36
Myrmecia Myrmecia is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 28
 
Plan: Palaeo/Groves/Kwasniewski
Stats: 171/171/171 Male 177 cm
BF:18%/18%/18%
Progress:
Location: Canberra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krystalr
I posted in your other thread, Myrmecia, ...
Thank you. I posted twice as I thought my query would catch two different sets of board members - that is, people who look in this specialized part may rarely check the newcomer introductions. Thanks again.
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  #102   ^
Old Fri, Sep-03-10, 11:36
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,010
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrmecia
I wonder what Garrett Smith means in the above quote by palaeo eating having holes big enough to drive a truck through. (I can't speak for the Zone diet as it is not palaeo.) Google the Evolutionary Health Principle and you'll see why I think palaeo eating and lifestyle is impregnable!

But thanks for making me aware of the Body Ecology approach.
Good question, and who knows! He obviously didn't want to go into that discussion.

Maybe it's about gut flora or something. That is an area not talked about much. Or maybe it was just about whatever flavor of Paleo/Zone was getting all the attention in that forum at that time.

He has a web site, DoctorAsTeacher.com. Maybe you can poke around in there.
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  #103   ^
Old Sat, Sep-04-10, 02:46
Myrmecia Myrmecia is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 28
 
Plan: Palaeo/Groves/Kwasniewski
Stats: 171/171/171 Male 177 cm
BF:18%/18%/18%
Progress:
Location: Canberra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seejay
He has a web site, DoctorAsTeacher.com. Maybe you can poke around in there.
Thanks, Seejay. I'm learning a lot here.

If anyone else has experience eating high fat without a gall bladder, I'd very much like to hear from you.
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  #104   ^
Old Mon, Sep-06-10, 14:58
LaZigeuner's Avatar
LaZigeuner LaZigeuner is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,065
 
Plan: ZULCA!
Stats: 353/279.2/175 Female 64 in.
BF: For now...
Progress: 41%
Location: U.S.
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Has anyone ordered the books from Poland? I faxed my order last week, but it hasn't shown up on the CC yet. So I sent an e-mail yesterday, and though I know it hasn't been very long, haven't heard back yet. Do they notify you that they've received your order, or when it ships?

TIA

I'm trying to figure out the best way for me to "back into" my OD ratios. Right now, ad lib eating has me at about 90g carbs, 90g protein, and fat to satiety. So I need to get both carbs and protein down. I'd like to just fast for a day or 2, cream and tea, to get into the groove, but I'm worried it'll mess up my hormones even more. Anyone have any thoughts about that?
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  #105   ^
Old Mon, Sep-06-10, 15:25
algts's Avatar
algts algts is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,036
 
Plan: Primal-ish
Stats: 212/181/150 Female 64"
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: Northwest USA
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I just placed my order by postal mail last week, but have not heard yet. He does recommend a higher protein level when starting. There are some very long threads here with more info if you have time to search. Let us know if you hear about your books...
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