First, let me assure you that I'm not a troll. What I'm about to say shouldn't make you angry if you have an open mind. I enjoy reading these forums and I definately think a low carb lifestyle is highly appropriate for some, especially those with any type of insulin disorder. However, the diet often falls short for very active people and those involved in high intensity athletic pursuits. I'm 42 years old, prior military, prior amatuer boxer, prior amatuer bodybuilder; You name the diet or supplement and chances are, I have tried it. I'm presently recovering from my second unsuccessful low carb diet. I didn't need to lose weight, I just wanted to feel better. I have always been an advocate of the very low fat, higher carbohydate, high protein diet; Yes, low fat is possible along with high protein when a large portion of the protein comes from zero fat egg, milk, and whey supplements. One day I decided that I wanted to look even leaner, so I cut out all refined carbs...no bread, crackers, etc. My carbohydrate intake remained the same, only everything was very low on the glycemic index. I got a little more than I bargained for. Despite ample calories from protein and carbs, I started shrinking badly; I could see every vein in my anatomy. I wanted my strength back! I thought maybe more fat was the answer. I was scared to death of consuming fat and carbs together (we all know what that results in!) so I went LC. Vegetables (non-starchy) were my only carb source along with carbs that accompany nuts. I ate a lot of fish and salmon, chicken, etc. The strength started coming back right away. I felt good....a little slow, but good. However, after a few months I started gaining unwanted fat. Now I know that many say "you feel less hungry with high fat diets and therefore eat less". This was/is not true for me. Maybe if I sat on my butt most of the day and only engaged in light/moderate aerobic pursuits, that might work. However, my workouts and activity levels make me very hungry. High fat foods have relatively low bulk in relation in their calorie content and it's very easy to over-do it. Anyway, I got spooked and returned to my low-fat, higher carb routine. I immediately noticed an increase in strength in the gym. I concluded that my initial success with the low carb diet (feeling better, better strength) was not so much attributed to what I was eating, but to the fact that I had dramatically increased my caloric intake and was no longer in a catabolic state. So, here I am, back to my old diet. I can't help it, it works for me. This time however, I'm eating some bread and pasta so I don't get too skinny. I think that all people are metabolically different and the same diet does not work for all; its got a lot to do with your genetics and lifestyle. To tell you the truth, I love the food I eat when I try LC. I know that fats are good for you and that carbohydrate restriction is very good for maintaining stable blood glucose....it just doesn't work for me.

Hi BigSteve,

Sometimes out mind affects what our body does. My results on low carb and high fat have been great; for both health parameters and exercise results. My blood chemistry has gone from poor to great and my bicycling speeds have improved greatly. I cannot see any muscle loss and my body fat is way down. I have been low carbing for over four years and have found no downside.

I too noticed very little loss in aerobic performance. My favorite aerobic activity is throwing on a heavy backpack and taking a 6 mile fast walk...however, on LC my strength training suffers. I simply don't have the glycogen to support explosive effort.

Some people (such as my sister and Mom) are lucky to have a metabolism that handles carbs just fine. Other people (like my Dad and me) can't handle them. What's really sad is seeing him (who has diabetes and need to low-carb) struffing his face with low fiber, high carb foods. But that's another topic. :-p

Anyway, I do better on a high protein diet with moderate fat. I find this moderates the calories that a high fat diet might push too high. The stable blood sugar from low-carb has been noticable. I no longer feel like I need a Coke and candy bar when I start work at 3 pm, or at 7 or 8 when my blood sugar would dip after dinner. My energy level has also stablized - no more ups and downs.

Every time I eat a high carb meal I pay for it big time, so I try to keep my cheats to a minimum because I know how I will feel and what will happen.

I *love* weight training. I usually do 30 minutes, then sip a low-carb protein shake while doing my cardio. I can see my biceps getting some definition, so I know it's working.

1) Okay, the first problem you ran into was related to being scared to eat fat. Obviously without carbs, and being relatively moderate with fat, you're going to lose weight because that's a rather low energy diet. I imagine it must have been mostly vegetation (no energy) and protein (poor energy).

So then you started eating fat, and the weight loss stopped, and you felt strong again. Okay, great.

2) However, eating fat did not satiate you the way your carb diet did, and you found yourself eating more calories. You started to gain fat. Is this correct?

See, point 2 is where I just get totally confused. A high fat diet should be more satisfying than a high carb diet.

I think what is happening is that you display a greater intake-consciousness on your carb diet... but you did not display this same restriction on the high fat LC diet. You do not eat completely to hunger on carbs because there isn't the expectation that you can. On the other hand, there was the expectation you could eat all you want on a high fat diet. So, because you were psychologically expecting this tremendous satiety, and this ability to eat whatever you wanted, you just let loose with the fat.

That you gained weight on LC is not a failing of the LC diet. It probably reflects that you are under your ideal body fat percentage (many athletes are). You maintain your unnatural leanness by restricted eating of your low energy, low fat, high carb diet. Your mind expects moderate satiety on this diet, and you are behaviorally conditioned to not eat to complete hunger. Therefore, you do not over eat. However, when you attempted to eat LC, you expected the same profound satiety experienced by the obese and normal-fat dieters. Of course, this did not happen, as your metabolism actually wants to put on some fat. So, you found yourself over eating, and gaining. Without the psychological expectations to experience hunger and be "moderate" (conditioned after years of low fat , high carb propaganda) you just went with your bod, and your bod is saying "we're too skinny... we want more fat".

I've been underweight myself, presently am a bit under my ideal body fat levels... trust me, LC does *not* satiate when you are underweight the same way it does when your body has a comfortable level of body fat. The more over ideal fat you are, the more extreme the appetite suppression (the inverse is also true). LC balances metabolism. Body fat is a key regulator of metabolism. If your body has too little fat, this imbalances metabolism. Therefore, a healthy metabolism will not permit over *or* underfatness.

Unfortunately if you want to stay as lean and "cut" as you are, it means under eating - of carbs or of fat, whatever the energy source, you've got to consciously restrict it to some degree.

I've been LCing for over 3 years, and I notice weight bearing activity seems rather hard on my sugar levels. Light walking and jogging is perfect for my metabolism, it augments my fat burning (I tolerate carbs better, I "feel" more ketogenic, appetite is more controlled, so on). If I do vigorous walking carrying heavy things, or heavy lifting, I often start shaking (implying my bod is trying to crank out sugars). However, if I eat a bit of carbs the day before I have no troubles and usually have wonderful energy. One night I drank half a can of regular soda (accidentally). The next day, my energy was perfect doing things that normally I can't do without getting a drop in sugar and shakiness.

Then again, as I said earlier, I suspect my metabolism isn't balanced (in catabolism/anabolism). If I ate more and put on fat, this intolerance to intense effort might go away. I notice it does get a lot better if my metabolism is oriented toward fat gain (from eating a lot) even if carbs stay low.

I dont know how low your carbs dropped but I know that when I was doing serious strength training I needed 40-50g of net carbs a day to really stay normal and get a good workout in. This was about 2 hours of intense weights followed be 45-55 minutes of high intensity cardio (some days I would skip the cardio if I didnt have the energy).

One of the problems I encountered when switching to low carbing from low fat is that I was a volume eater and I would never feel satisfied unless I ate a certain amount of food. It was totally psychological. It took a long time for me to really transition into listening to what my body says and understanding that it isnt the quantity of food that I ate but the quality. Learning when I am satisfied even though I didnt eat everything on my plate.

We all have a different level. I feel really good at about 60g a day, but if I go up to 90g, I am running the risk of binging because 90g is more than my body can handle. If I go down to 40g I get headaches. It's a fine balance to find what works best.

I tried the Atkins Diet for 3 or so years. I lost weight but my running suffered. As a teen my passion was weightlifting but as an adult my only interest is running. I tried the Zone Diet for a year before quitting it to try Atkins. I didn't have enough energy for running on either diet.

Now I'm back on a modified Zone Diet. And the low carb is still causing me problems. Just two days ago I did the local cancer society relay run. It was unusually cold and I went hypothermic. The other people on the track didn't seem bothered by the cold so I assume it was due to low levels of glycogen. I regrouped only by eating hi-carb pizza, bread, crackers and such. I managed to run 52 miles in 18 hours. A year ago I did the same event and ran 66 miles.

The Zone Diet starts with determining protein requirements. Then carb is added at a ratio of the protein needs. Very little fat is needed. My feeling is the ratio of protein to carb does not work too well for the super-active. So I follow the protein needs but plan to double the carb. And even that might not be enough. I use nuts or avocado for the fat requirements.

I carb up before and during big runs.

I'm seeing a trend here, just as I have seen on other low-carb oriented forums. When being brutally honest, event the most hard core low carb supporters admit the necessity of significant carb consumption to perform in the real world. When I say "real world" I'm talking about the challenges faced by much of the population. Most do not have the luxury to go down to Whole Foods Market and buy the latest grass fed beef and high omega 3 eggs. They do blue collar work, busting their ass all day on a construction site or running for 10 hours in a busy production kitchen. Ever try going low carb under those conditions? I assure you it doesn't work. However, you can do low carb when you don't do anything really stressful or when you're sitting on the sofa watching doctor Phil....try taking it for a test drive in the real world.

I actually agree with you. I think everyone has to find what works for them and if LCing is hindering your physical lifestlye, then by all means find what works for you and stick with it. However, accusing all LC'rs of sitting around watching Dr. Phil all day was a bit rude. I chase around 4year old twins all day. I WISH I had time to sit and watch Dr. Phil !

If you are that physically busy in your life then you are probably right in upping your carb intake. It sounds like your body can handle it. I just wish mine could. Good Luck to you!

There are plenty of high-exercise low carbers -- there is a forum of them on this website, in fact. However, that's not to say I disagree with you about heavy exercise and carbohydrates. I'm not sure it's necessary to have them, but it probably isn't optimal. I know that I spent a weekend in May helping my father in law install an aboveground pool, and it was brutal work (shoveling, hauling sand, etc.) I was more challenged than I thought I'd be, and got lightheaded at times. I didn't get lightheaded doing hard physical labor when I was 100 pounds heavier and eating carbs.

I typically have way more energy now, but there is no doubt that for very hard labor, I need more fast energy than I usually do. If I worked on a road crew, I doubt I could eat this way. I wouldn't need to go to a high carb diet, but I'd definitely need to add some. Would I trade it based on this? No. This has been good for me in a number of ways and it is how I intend to eat the rest of my life.

You do tend to project your personal experience to other people. You can handle more carbs than I can. Be thankful for that.

(Ignoring the arrogant comment about Dr. Phil - I work a full time job, a freelance business, raise a daughter, help my family, and remodel my house, and have little time for television or judgmental ignorance).

-Scott

So your idea of a successful LCer is someone who doesn't partake in much physical exertion and sits on the couch all day watching TV?

Wow, way to generalize! Also, how arrogant.