Just got to thinking about the "flaws" of low carbing...specifically "lack of energy". (not something I've personally experienced but was still pondering the topic and my thoughts on it...why I havent experienced it etc.)

Then my mind began wandering around a "what if" scenario: (bear with me here)...

What if ...2 groups of people with the same overall physical characteristics...the same heights, same builds, same activity levels...both groups with members about 15 pounds over weight... were put into a closed and monitored program for a two weeks. The diet in this program would consist of only lc/whole/natural/ foods...no processed foods. Both groups contained people who had regularly eaten foods that would not be allowed for consumption in the study. (high carb and/or processed foods.

Group one consisted of people who knew they were technically a bit overweight but had great body image, and honestly enjoyed their lives as-is...with no desire to lose weight.

Group two consisted of people with poor body image and the desire/need to lose weight to be happy with ones self.

Isnt it possible that...in this scenario...those in group one might experience the deprivation of their favorite foods with depression...wanting the unavailable foods...seeing little to no benefit to this period of 'deprivation'...and becoming slightly more lethargic from mild depression?

Meanwhile...isnt it possible that group two:
*excited at the prospect of losing weight and improving their body image
*excited at being happier with themselves
*feeling that the 'deprivation' was completely worth it to achieve the end results
...isnt it possible that this group might actually:
*experience a boost in energy?
*might actually stop viewing the 'deprivation' as 'deprivation'
*simply enjoy this new way of eating after becoming accustomed to the perceived restrictions of their menus?

I know they're not an experts thoughts...but found the whole subject very interesting. I have, however, read a few articles that support the idea that "perceived deprivation" can cause a response equal to actual deprivation. This would be true in a number of different scenarios...from perceived food deprivation, to perceived emotional deprivation, to perceived intellectual deprivation etc. In other words...if you feel deprived...you will likely respond as though actually deprived...even if the reality shows no true deprivation.


I theorize that:

1) Most people who begin Low-carb diets might experience a bit of lethargy...partially due to the body's physical adjustment to the new diet...partially due to "perceived deprivation".

2) Once the initial adjustment period has set in...(cravings lowered, appetite suppressed, familiarity with food choices etc)... energy levels return to normal or exceed previous levels for those who dont continue to feel deprived.

3) Response to a low-carb WOE is very dependent on the person...the individual...following the LC WOE, and may vary greatly due to a number of factors...psychological reactions being one of those factors.

I know it's just me tossing thoughts around in my head...but I was wondering what others might think on the topic.

Another theory of mine is that people who experience the lethargy are not following the plan long enough to gain the benefits of increased energy, or perhaps they are not following the plan correctly.

But then again, everyone is different, and the resulting energy that so many people experience on this way of eating may not be experienced by everyone.

Interesting concept, though.


L

Hmmm very interesting thoughts there...I think you have the groups backwards though. I think that the folks who have reduced self-esteem and poor body image are the ones who seem to notice the deprivation part of dieting the most. They also seem to be the ones who cheat, fall off the wagon and then go on the beat themselves up about it.

I've personally never experienced the "energy boost" of low carbing, on Atkins, CAD or PSMF. I never really felt deprived on Atkins or CAD. PSMF I rarely do as it includes cheat meals. I have suffered from mild depression while low carbing. I also experienced a terrible 9 month stall (due to hypoThyroid), during which I kept trying to figure out what would work for me. Sure I complained about not losing weight, but during that time I continued low carbing and exercising without fail (at least until a doctor told me it was pretty much useless until we fix the thyroid condition).

But none of those things have been enough for me to give up. I came to low carbing ready to do whatever it took to get to a healthy weight. I'm still working on that almost 2 years later, and I'm not about to quit now.

I always loved the quote "pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."

Attitude and outlook absolutely affect every part of our lives. Diet included. So much of eating is attitude anyway. You can look at breakfast and think "good grief, eggs again, I'll choke them down" or you can be positive and think "what am I going to put on my eggs this morning?" Or even look for other options. Either way, your meal will follow incased in that attitude. You will suffer through or enjoy the food.

If you've ever listened to motivational speakers who push nuero linguistic programming, they talk about how you can change your state of mind with a simple action or breath. Making you go from lethargic to energetic instantly (much like advertisers link you to their products with jingles or catch phrases instantly). My guess is that if you can make your self energetic instantly that way you can find a link to energize your diet instantly as well.

Another part of this that interests me is the power of positive thoughts in a quantum physics sense or how thought affects atoms. If you constantly tell your mind and your body that you are fat and ugly, and you look in the mirror and see fat and ugly, scientifically do you hinder loss and change? And if you consistently search out the good, look at pictures of a thinner you and visualize that now, all while appreciating your strong points (great ankles, nicely shaped shoulders) does it aide you in losing faster or easier?

Great thread...

I based my scenario on myself as one of the participants in group 2...and while I may initially have felt more deprived than someone with a better self image (although I dont think I did)...my hatred (yep hatred) of my physical self and a desire to change motivated me to stick with Atkins through the first 2 weeks.

Low and behold...I saw the scale dropping (granted it was probably water weight but it works as a motivator)...I discovered that I could eat until I was full and that I didnt have to experience hunger to lose...I found out that going out to eat was still FUN!!! (ribeye with brocolli and ceasar instead ofa low-cal meal of plain broiled chicken, small dry baked potato and o&v salad)...and my clothes got just a bit looser. Nothing...and I mean nothing...was going to depress me about low-carbing once I got past carb withdrawal and realized how varied my food options were! I've been nothing but excited and energized with the new me that's been slowly appearing.

Lethargy...YOU control it.

The carb threshhold is different for everybody, the difference of even 10 carbs a day can be the difference between night and day on the energy and "brain fog" front. When I added 1/2 a cup of blueberries to my usual bacon and egg breakfasts, it boosted my energy considerably. It is also good to consider your activity level and up your carbs accordingly, especially after workouts.

Zajack,

I just read your journal and I'd have to say you seem like you have a pretty positive self image from this side. How do you feel about yourself now that you're 23 lbs from goal? Do you still hate your body? I'm betting that you don't. How would you feel if what you're doing now stopped working? Would you throw in the towel? I bet not

I would have considered myself in group 1, except I'm much heavier than 15lbs overweight. While I'm not happy to be this fat, I have a pretty great life. I haven't let the fat get in the way of doing things I enjoy. Sure I may feel self conscious in a bathing suit, but you know what, so do most women regardless of their weight. I'm in this for the long haul, although I thought it'd be shorter than this Eating Chicken and veggies day in and day out isn't all that fun, but you know what, it's working so my attitude stays positive about it.

Like CindyG I'd put myself in the first group. I have WAY more than 15 to lose, but I have a great self image. I have rarely met a woman over 20 who doesn't feel self conscious in a bathing suit, but all 480 lbs of me got into a cute 2 piece last vacation anyway.

But I am also one of the people who got a definite 'high' my first few days of low carbing.

I think my 'burst of energy' was actually just the lifting of carb-brain fog. I can do a lot more now than I could before LC, but its both physical and emotional. Even when I'm physically tired, my brain still works better.

I also wonder how many other people are like me. Theoretically, when you run out of glugose during excersize, your body switches to fat burning to provide energy. My 'switch' is broken. If I have a very high fat high protein breakfast with nearly no carbs, I get a much more intense work out without a crash afterwards. If I eat a reasonable portion of carbs beforehand, about half way through I'm pathetic and exhausted.

That could be seen as an 'energy boost'.

I think I'm lucky in a way. As a hypoglycemic, I have an immediate cause/effect reaction to eating high carb food. That makes it easier for me to stay on track. Every desire to cheat is countered by the thought 'yea, it's tastes good, but it makes you feel awful'. None of this nebulous 'it won't delay my weightloss all thaaaaaaat much....

Very interesting things to think about.

I started low-carbing in the middle of a series of sleepless nights (my husband travels a lot and I didn't used to sleep well when he was out of town) which usually leave me very lethargic. After low-carbing for one day, I was vacuuming the entire house and mopping the kitchen floor and doing my hour aerobic tape instead of my 20-minute one. In other words, conditions were such that I should have felt really bad and I felt tired, but great.

I both agree and disagree.

In one respect, I completely totally agree that a perception of deprivation begets a real state of it. If you feel unhappy (because, say, you have a poor mind-set to making a lifestyle change in diet) you will feel depressed about that. Depression makes you demotivated, and when you're demotivated you have zero endurance. Lethargy related to depression, though, is more spiritual even if it feels physical... this is the crucial distinction.
I am one of those who feels very lethargic on no carbs and I am also lethargic when depressed... it's different. When you're lethargic because of mood, it's more like you don't want to do things because they're too much work, so much effort, and you don't see the point. Everything is an effort and it exhausts you. Think about it this way; if you are eager to do something, even if it's strenuous, you won't notice it. If everything is tedium and torture, it will crawl by.
Let me give an example. Getting intimate with a partner and doing chores around the house may both require a similar energy load, but if you asked people which is more difficult and exhausting, nearly all will say chores is work, but intimacy is pleasurable (unless, ironically, the person is depressed in which case they can't derive pleasure from much anything, therefore everything feels like an effort even intimacy).


With the carb thing, it's not that you don't want to, it's more you can't. You can't exercise as hard because you're lethargic. You're tired. It's real. A very easy way to prove it's not mood-influenced depression pattern lethargy (and therefore, a false perception of having no energy) is the fact that there is no homogeneity in ambition & palatability of severely strict LC among those who report greater lethargy. I identify completely with the theoretical "poor image/desperate to lose" group. I identify strongly with all theoretical traits of that group. I want to do this very bad, to the point where I don't feel deprived at all being so restricted in my eating because the reward is so great. Yet, I do feel distinctly less energetic and more lethargic when my carbs are extremely low for a long period of time. Raising them just a touch eliminates these symptoms, even though my diet is still extremely restricted.


So I do agree attitude influences your perceptions of everything, but then on the other hand I don't agree that those who feel lethargic eating virtually no carbs are not experiencing a physically real lack of energy.

Hi Woo...
When you say:...what level are you talking about? Atkins induction? Just curious...I wanted to know if we're talking about the same basic carb intake.

I'm not sure the level exactly at which I stop feeling too lethargic. For my activity level (average, no formal exercise, moderately active) I know I cease to feel lethargic eating roughly 40 grms daily (meaning if I am eating this many carbs I don't feel run down). Below that point I'm not sure; it could be 20, it could be 30. My weight and activity level/metabolism has varried so much that the "minimum" could also be widly variable. The only thing I can say with reasonable certainty is if I am eating that many carbs I feel ok. But, if I try to eat as few carbs as possible I don't.

Even at the levels you describe (40 or so)...that's still significantly low-carb and you're not lethargic at those levels. The levels of comfort my vary from one person to another, but I'd say that you, too, are proof that eating low-carb does not reduce energy levels in and of itself. Yes?

In my experience, when I'm eating Induction levels of carbs (beyond the 2-week period) I can do my day-to-day things (work, housework, etc) but if I try to exercise I just don't have the energy and I "poop out". I can go for a moderate-speed walk but definitely not a jog and when I tried to weight train at the gym?? Forget it. Even going up a few flights of stairs that I didn't have a problem with before LC strained my muscles. A boost in my carbs (even just up to 30g ECC) made all the difference in the world.

I do agree that attitudes/moods make a huge difference in energy levels but for me it wasn't because of a low mood or negative attitude at all - it was purely physical. I didn't have the energy to tap to do anything beyond normal activities.