Background: Before I got hooked on computers, I was a geochemistry major in college. I have had a year of serious organic chemistry.

IMHO: People who say that "all trans fats are bad" do not know their chemistry. Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) is touted as a fat-burning, muscle-saving supplement. I personally take it and it does work. The catch is that CLA is a mixture of trans fatty acids! The Tonalin brand is a 50/50 mixture of the cis-9/trans-11 and trans-10/cis-12 isomers (according to the posters in the Nutrition & Supplements forum.) If "all trans fats are bad", why is CLA good for you???

Background: A fat is composed of a molecule of glycerine combined with three fatty acids. The three fatty acids need not be the same. Fatty acids can be short chain, medium chain, or long chain. Fatty acids can also be saturated, monounsaturated, or polyunsaturated. Monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fatty acids have double bonds (-C=C-) which can be either cis or trans.

- ldcowboy

Resources:
Go to the Nutrition & Supplements forum and look for forums having CLA in the subject line. Lots of information there.

The website http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mike8.htm has an introduction to CLA.

Good point about CLA... It's the artificially hydrogenated stuff that's dangerous.

Wyv

THANK YOU! I was Pre-med for three years and I kept trying to explain to people the difference and NO ONE got it...

People only hear what they want to, I'm convinced

I thought that the only bad trans fats were the partially hydrogenated ones? Like in Cool Whip. Is this still true?

When people on this forum say to avoid trans fats, they are talking about the man-made ones from the poly-sat vegetable oils. The evidence for trans fats being unhealthy is based on consumption of partially hydrogenated vegetables oils, not consumption of CLA.

"Willet et al reported findings from the Nurses Health Study, a prospective study involving more than 85,000 women, showing that intake of trans fatty acids was significantly and independently associated with incidence of CHD. The association was only seen for for trans fatty isomers from hydrogenated vegetable oils. The mainly different trans isomers from ruminant fats did not show such an association. A case-control study in 239 people suffering an acute myocardial infarction found that after adjustment for age, sex and energy intake, intake of trans fatty acids was directly related to risk of myocardial infarction. Those with the highest intake of trans fatty acids had twice the risk of myocardial infarction as those with the lowest intakes after adjusting for other cardiovascular risk factors. As with the Nurses Health Study, the association was only seen for trans isomers from partially hydrogenated vegetable oils."

From: Department of Health (1994) Nutritional Aspects of Cardiovascular Disease, Report of the Cardiovascular Review Group of the Committee of Medical Aspects of Food Policy (COMA). Report No. 46. London: HMSO.

CLA (and its benefits and/or harmful effcts) has been discussed on this site quite often, for examples.
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=248898
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=213086

Rather than people saying "avoid trans fats", would it be better to say "avoid partially hydrogenated vegetable oil" and avoid confusion? I can see PCRM (the vegan diet-mongers) shouting "All trans fats BAD! Meat and milk contains trans fats! Go Vegan!"

The article which set this thread in motion was the news that the NYC health department was wanting restaurants to stop serving food containing "trans fats". I'm reading the article and headline closely and in the article, the health department clearly wants the restaurants to avoid partially hydrogenated vegetable oil.

Dodger, thanks for the information. It is appreciated.

- ldcowboy

P.S. It sounds like a great doctoral thesis in human nutrition would be the nutritional and biochemical effects of the various separate fatty acids. That would probably have some real stunners.

Hi,
I haved learned so much since I have joined this forum. This is very interesting.
Annie

I have learned a lot here as well, and I do take CLA, but smaller than the recommended dosage on the bottle as it makes me nauseous if I take the recommended dose.

That being said, I am glad it was spelled out so well in your post, and thanks for the info.

But as to the ban trans fats, it is not my fault they named partially hydrogenated oils trans fats.

Those are particularily nasty and have to go!

Is anyone not selling it or taking it claiming CLA to be good for humans? I hadn't heard about that.



No, telling people to avoid trans fats is pretty unconfusing, in my opinion. Are you really so worried about the vegans messing up your definitional hairsplitting, all for the love of a totally unnecessary dietary supplement?

I'm worried about the mass media and CSPI confusing people, and the vegan diet-mongers misleading people. Grass-fed meat and milk natually contain CLA.

Background: CLA is apparently formed in ruminant animals (animals which eat vegetation and "ferment" it in a number of stomach chambers.) The microbes fermenting the vegetation act on linoleic acid (a polyunsaturated fatty acid), converting it either to CLA isomers or intermediates which the animal converts to CLA.

Personally, I take 4 grams of Tonalin CLA a day. I have noticed more muscle definition in my legs after starting the supplement. My exercise program is to walk six miles six days a week.

- ldcowboy

A website I found with more information is:

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/newslett.nsf/all/wfbg
"Barbecues, Green Forages and CLA"

Some important paragraphs from this website are:


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Essential fatty acids are nutrients we must have to stay healthy. It's impossible for our bodies to make these fatty
acids on their own, so we must eat foods that contain them.

Linoleic acid is an essential fatty acid that is a chain of 18 carbon atoms. It has two double bonds in the middle and is
missing 4 hydrogen atoms (i.e. poly-unsaturated). Linoleic acid is needed to keep membranes healthy, make
prostaglandins and a number of other compounds.

Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) is formed when the double bonds that are present in linoleic acid are moved one
carbon atom closer together. Normally the double bonds in linoleic acid are between the 9th and 10th and between
the 12th and 13th carbon atoms. In conjugated linoleic acid, they are between the 9th and 10th and between the
11th and 12 th carbon atoms. The double bonds can be configured two ways (cis or trans), so that there are a
number of twins (isomers) of CLA.

For the "good" CLA isomers, the shift of a bond just one position creates a molecule that has been shown to protect
experimental animals from cancer and arteriosclerosis as well as changing the ratio (repartition) of fat to lean in a
number of mammals.

The most desirable type (isomer) of CLA is produced most consistently and naturally by the microflora that live in
the rumen (first stomach compartment) of ruminant animals like cattle and sheep. CLA is formed by the digestion of
dietary linoleic acid. The CLA is readily absorbed by the animal from the rumen and ends up in milk, meat and fat.

The concentration of CLA in animal products varies, partially due to diet and management practices. For instance,
the CLA content in milk fat was higher when cows were grazed rather than when they were fed grain
concentrates. When concentrates were supplemented with unsaturated fatty acids such as corn oil, CLA levels in
milk fat rose.


Copyright and Official Marks

This material, including copyright and marks under the Trade Marks Act (Canada), is owned by the Government of
Alberta and protected by intellectual property law.

Material may not be used or reproduced for commercial purposes without the prior written consent arranged by the
Web Editor. If it is reproduced or redistributed for non-commercial purposes, Crown copyright is to be
acknowledged.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Since there's no mention of this in the mass media or from the Center or from vegans, it seems that the only confusing and misleading is being done by you?

Did you see this in that page you cited?:

"When a ruminant animal produces CLA naturally the prospect of producing other harmful compounds along with the desired compounds is small. This is not the case for artificially manufactured CLA. Thus it is safer for the public to eat naturally produced beef, lamb or milk than as an artificially produced dietary supplements."

(This link works for me: Link )

OMG, my head is spinning....I just gotta know....is margerine really one step away from plastic??

Well, chemically speaking margarine isn't only one step away from plastic... but give me real peanut butter instead any day! Real peanut butter freshly ground from peanuts and ONLY peanuts! Peanut butter which you grind yourself at the store and store in the refrigrator.

- ldcowboy

As Dodger notes, there is quite an association between consuming trans fats (PHVO) and coronary heart disease. Note that CHD was relatively rare in this country until the beginning of the 20th century. Margarine and shortening were introduced at the beginning of the 20th century!

Over simplified headlines are what spur misinformed opinion. Examples: "all fat is bad", "red meat is bad", or closer to home "all carbs are bad".