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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Oct-06-09, 15:21
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
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Default Association of hypovitaminosis D with metabolic disturbances in pcos

Association of hypovitaminosis D with metabolic disturbances in polycystic ovary syndrome.
OBJECTIVES:
Women with PCOS frequently suffer from metabolic disturbances, in particular from insulin resistance.
Accumulating evidence suggests that vitamin D deficiency may contribute to the development of the metabolic syndrome.
Hence, the aim of our study was to investigate the association of 25(OH)D levels and the components of the MS in PCOS women.
METHODS: 25(OH)D levels were measured by means of ELISA in 206 women affected by PCOS. Metabolic, endocrine, and anthropometric measurements and oral glucose tolerance tests were performed. RESULTS: The prevalence of insufficient 25(OH)D levels (<30 ng/ml) was 72.8% in women with PCOS.
PCOS women with the MS had lower 25(OH)D levels than PCOS women without these features (17.3 vs 25.8 ng/ml respectively.
In multivariate regression analysis including 25(OH)D, season, body mass index, and age, 25(OH)D and BMI were independent predictors of homeostatic model assessment-insulin resistance and quantitative insulin sensitivity check index
. In binary logistic regression analyses, 25(OH)D and BMI were independent predictors of the MS in PCOS women.
We found significantly negative correlations of 25(OH)D levels with BMI, waist circumference, waist-to-hip ratio, systolic and diastolic blood pressure, fasting and stimulated glucose, area under the glucose response curve, fasting insulin, HOMA-IR, HOMA-beta, triglycerides, and quotient total cholesterol/high-density lipoprotein (HDL) and positive correlations of 25(OH)D levels with QUICKI and HDL.
CONCLUSION:
We demonstrate that low 25(OH)D levels are associated with features of the MS in PCOS women.
Large intervention trials are warranted to evaluate the effect of vitamin D supplementation on metabolic disturbances in PCOS women.

I disagree with the last statement.
Vitamin D supplementation at up to 10,000iu/daily is absolutely safe and extremely cheap.
The natural level of 25(OH)D our body would naturally acquire given full body sun exposure is around 60~80ng/ml
Therefore there is absolutely no good reason why any person should not correct vitamin D deficiency NOW and when they have attained and maintained a 25(OH)D above 55ng/ml for at least 12months report back on the impact such a status has had on the symptoms of PCOS.
There are so many other good reasons, cancer prevention, heart disease prevention, diabetes prevention, just for starters that it is absurd to go on saying we need to wait for further trials before suggesting people correct vitamin D deficiency states. We wouldn't say that for someone suffering from water for food deficiency so why delay when we are discussing PCOS?

Anyone who knows that The prevalence of insufficient 25(OH)D levels (<30 ng/ml) was 72.8% in women with PCOS. should do something about it.

Those women have less than half the amount of vitamin d that enables their breasts to work as human DNA evolved to function that is capable of dispensing vitamin D3 replete breast milk.

Every woman with less than 55ng/ml status is at greater risk of breast cancer than is desirable. So why anyone suggests further delay is beyond me.

In order to obtain peak athletic muscular performance you must have a vitamin D status above 50ng/ml.
So around half that amount it's fine is it for women to be kept weaker than they should naturally be?

So on all the tests they ran those with the lowest vitamin D status came out worst and they still need to do more tests before they can recommend the Bl***** Obvious.
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Jan-15-10, 14:29
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talervo talervo is offline
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Plan: Schwarzbein
Stats: 138/143/130 Female 64.5 in
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Default

Has anyone here supplemented with Vit D? Any results?
I'm taking a multi, but not a separate supplement. Just curious.
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  #3   ^
Old Sat, Jan-16-10, 05:07
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Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
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A multi won't have any effect at all as the amount of Vit d in a multi is so trivial your body won't notice it.

If you look at this study
The EFFECT of VITAMIN D REPLACEMENT THERAPY on INSULIN RESISTANCE and ANDROGEN LEVELS in WOMEN with POLYCYSTIC OVARY SYNDROME.
Quote:
Insulin resistance (IR) is one of the common features of the polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS), and recent studies indicate the possible role of vitamin D in the pathogenesis of IR and glucose metabolism.

In this study, it was aimed to determine the effect of vitamin D replacement therapy on glucose metabolism, insulin and androgen levels in obese, insulin resistant women with PCOS.

Eleven women with PCOS were included into the study.
The mean age of the patients were 23.6+/-5.7 years, body mass index 33.9+/-5.1 kg/m2.
Six of the patients (54.5%) had acantosis nigricans and ten (90.9%) oligoamenorrhea.
The mean Ferriman Gallwey score was 14.1+/-4.6.
Only two women were within the normal limits of vitamin D levels as >20 ng/ml. ( that is a totally stupid statement above 20ng/ml is still deficient. Human breasts only produce vitamin D replete milk around the 60ng/ml level so it's only around 55~65ng/.ml that our bodies have the amount our DNA evolved to function best with)
Three weeks after the administration of the single dose of 300,000 iu of vitamin D3 orally, 25-hydroxyvitamin D3 significantly increased from 16.9+/-16 ng/ml to 37.1+/-14.6 ng/ml (p:0.027) and only two women were detected to have vitamin D3 levels <20 ng/ml.

Although glucose and insulin levels were decreased nonsignificanltly, hemostasis model assesment-IR significantly decreased from 4.41+/-1.38 to 3.67+/-1.48 (p: 0.043).

No significant alterations were witnessed at the levels of dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate, total and free testosteron, androstenedion.

No correlation was found between vitamin D with HOMA and other hormonal parameters.

In conclusion, women with PCOS have mostly insufficient vitamin D levels, and vitamin D replacement therapy may have a benefical effect on IR in obese women with PCOS.
My comment is in italics and I made the amount of Vit D used bold.

Most researchers don't have a clue about vitamin D3.
Ideally time has to be allowed for the body to adjust to being at the natural primitive level our DNA evolved living outdoors naked found to be best.

So ideally although it's a good idea to raise status reasonably quickly it would have been better to use amounts the body would acquire naturally. 50,000iu daily over a week would have been better than one intake of 300,000 and then it should be continued at an amount somewhat higher than daily needs (1000iu for each 25lbs) continually ad infinitum. Our skin makes 10,000~20,000iu/daily given full body sun exposure and it's reasonable to deduce there is a reason for that amount.

Only when Vitamin D status is above 50ng/ml does the body begin to have significant stores of D3.

Grassrootshealth D Action for cheap source of testing You can assume because you have PCOS you ARE now VITAMIN D DEFICIENT. Only after you have taken
BIO-TECH D3-50 Cholecalciferol 100 Caps - Free Shipping one of these daily for a week then one every 5 days for the next 2 months will you be approaching the level at which your breasts evolved to function best. So leave getting tested till then. If you are still below 60ng/ml you will need to continue the 50,000iu each 5 days (10,000iu/daily) for as long as needed and get as much sun on your skin as possible. When you have been above 60ng/ml for at least 3 months you may then notice some remission of PCOS symptoms.

You can see this study failed to raise status sufficiently to provide a reserve of D3, They only averaged 37ng and the highest woman's level was only 51ng so not enough D3 and for too short a time.
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  #4   ^
Old Sat, Jan-16-10, 10:48
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DebiLMT DebiLMT is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 256/199/190 Female 68 inches
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I have vitamin D deficiency. I am currently taking 50,000iu two times per week for three months along with my daily 1,000iu. I get retested in March to see if the megadoses have corrected the deficiency. I have PCOS with insulin resistance.
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Jan-16-10, 12:28
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talervo
Has anyone here supplemented with Vit D? Any results?
I'm taking a multi, but not a separate supplement. Just curious.

The majority of posters on this thread take vitamin D3 of at least 5,000 IU/day.
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, Jan-16-10, 16:08
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Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
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Progress: 118%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DebiLMT
I have vitamin D deficiency. I am currently taking 50,000iu two times per week for three months along with my daily 1,000iu. I get retested in March to see if the megadoses have corrected the deficiency. I have PCOS with insulin resistance.

Hopefully that 50000iu is NOT ergocalciferol but Cholecalciferol.
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  #7   ^
Old Sun, Jan-17-10, 15:11
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DebiLMT DebiLMT is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 256/199/190 Female 68 inches
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutchinson
Hopefully that 50000iu is NOT ergocalciferol but Cholecalciferol.


Hutchinson,
I am sorry but I cannot tell. My Rx bottle only says Vitamin D 50000iu capsule Breck????

What is the difference?
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Jan-18-10, 04:18
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DebiLMT
Hutchinson,
I am sorry but I cannot tell. My Rx bottle only says Vitamin D 50000iu capsule Breck????

What is the difference?
These are images of what ergocacliferol usually looks like.



The case against Vitamin D2 Dr Davis

If you enter ERGOCALCIFEROL in Dr Davis's site searchbox you will see he has been chuntering on about D2 for a long time. A while back he's a woman patient who had been MISTAKENLY prescribed daily 50,000iu and had been taking it at that rate for over a year. It should have made her very ill BUT because she wasn't absorbing or using it it didn't even do her any harm. Waste of time and money in her case. She didn't start to improve until he swapped her onto the form humans use. D3.
Some people will do fine on D2 but it's still more expensive, it's still less reliable and it's still less efficient and it doesn't last as long in your body. So apart from propping up the poor impoverished drug companies why use it when there is a cheaper, safer, long lasting, natural and more effective alternative. Biotech 50,000iu/capsules
or just take 2 of these daily Because D3 is more readily available, more effective and doesn't speed up the rate of usage, you can manage with less.
Quote from Dr Davis
"I've seen people taking vitamin D2 preparations, called "ergocalciferol," who are every bit as deficient as those who take no vitamin D at all. Avoid D2 or ergocalciferol preparations: they're worthless."

Last edited by Hutchinson : Mon, Jan-18-10 at 04:24.
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Jan-19-10, 11:27
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DebiLMT DebiLMT is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 256/199/190 Female 68 inches
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Thank you....It is definitely what is in the picture D2 and boy are they expensive. $18 for 8 capsules per month. Crazee...Is it safe for me to take the 50,000 IU of D3 two times per week as my doc prescribed the D2? This is my second time around with the Rx'd vitamin D for deficiency.
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Jan-20-10, 09:39
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
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Progress: 118%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DebiLMT
Thank you....It is definitely what is in the picture D2 and boy are they expensive. $18 for 8 capsules per month. Crazee...Is it safe for me to take the 50,000 IU of D3 two times per week as my doc prescribed the D2? This is my second time around with the Rx'd vitamin D for deficiency.
YES it is MUCH SAFER and FAR MORE EFFECTIVE

However as D3 is more effective than D2 you will not need to continue the 2 x 50,000iu/weekly for long. 8~12weeks should be fine. then as you weigh 250lbs just use 10,000iu/d = 50,000iu every 5th day and continue at this rate (1000iu for each 25lbs your weigh) ad infinitum.

Only if you are able to spend 20~30minutes full body prone midday sun exposure in an unpolluted environment will you be able to reduce the intake.

Our bodies evolved to expect regular almost full body sun exposure and are set up to expect 10~20,000iu daily availability of D3 and work better when the total daily intake from supplements + sun + diet is around that level.
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, Jan-20-10, 11:28
DebiLMT's Avatar
DebiLMT DebiLMT is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 256/199/190 Female 68 inches
BF:
Progress: 86%
Location: Washington State
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutchinson

Only if you are able to spend 20~30minutes full body prone midday sun exposure in an unpolluted environment will you be able to reduce the intake.



The sun option sounds fabulous, maybe I should consider a move to a tropical island! This cold, dreary Pacific NW winter is getting to me this year. (think turtle necks, scarves, gloves) Thank you for your advice I will order the D3 and start taking it instead of refilling my script for D2.

Here's to the journey,
Debi
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Jan-21-10, 03:48
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DebiLMT
The sun option sounds fabulous, maybe I should consider a move to a tropical island!
Limited non burning UVB exposure is the natural way of raising D3 status however relying on sun may not be reliable if you live in a town or under polluted skies. Upper Atmospheric pollution traps the UVB and consequently people getting more sun exposure in an urban environment just get UVA exposure and so [urend up with lower 25(OH)D levels than their country cousins.
Urban Tropospheric Ozone Increases the Prevalence of Vitamin D Deficiency among Belgian Postmenopausal Women with Outdoor Activities during Summer

Look who got the most sun?

See who had the highest 25(OH)D?

You get more UV exposure in towns because it bounces off walls, roads, windows etc. In the country it is absorbed by grass, plants, or hedges so isn't amplified as it is in towns. But if it doesn't contain UVB you only get the damaging effects and none of the vitamin D benefit.
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Jan-21-10, 11:24
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talervo talervo is offline
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Plan: Schwarzbein
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Wow, this is great info. I went to my naturopath yesterday and she put me on D3 4000/day for 2 months. She had been holding off on putting me on D because I have a lot of other problems that she wanted to address first. She recommended 2000/day for life.
We live in the Rockies (Denver), so get lots of sun. Do you happen to know the difference between sea level and a mile high with the UVB? I burn easily and don't really tan, so don't get enough sun when I go out because I try to remember to put on sunscreen and/or coverup.
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Jan-21-10, 15:37
deb34 deb34 is offline
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Plan: IF/Keto OMAD
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Hutchinson, any recommendations as to how much:

K2,
magnesium,
potassium,
calcium and
zinc would work synergystically with the above mentioned amounts of D3 for PCOS?

Quote:
However as D3 is more effective than D2 you will not need to continue the 2 x 50,000iu/weekly for long. 8~12weeks should be fine. then as you weigh 250lbs just use 10,000iu/d = 50,000iu every 5th day and continue at this rate (1000iu for each 25lbs your weigh) ad infinitum.
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  #15   ^
Old Fri, Jan-22-10, 05:10
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
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Progress: 118%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talervo
Wow, this is great info. I went to my naturopath yesterday and she put me on D3 4000/day for 2 months. She had been holding off on putting me on D because I have a lot of other problems that she wanted to address first. She recommended 2000/day for life.
If you look at the banner graph here you will see what happens in practice. 1000iu/daily for each 25lbs is a normal amount that normally gets people above 60ng/ml. As every tissue in your body is able to send out Vitamin D receptors we know there isn't any cell in your body that doesn't have a use for D3. Because D3 is fundamental to the way cells work there is absolutely no justification for dealling with other matters first. It doesn't make sense when we know everything, that means every single cell in your body, will work better if it's needs for Vitamin D are easily and promptly met. When 25(OH)D is above 60ng/ml 150nmol/l we know for certain that everyone has a reserve store of D3 to call on if required.

Quote:
We live in the Rockies (Denver), so get lots of sun.
not everyone responds the same to sunlight. The amount of cholesterol in you skin is fundamental to it's ability to make vitamin D3 ( obviously as UVB on a cholesterol molecule turns it to previtamin D3 if you've been using cholesterol lowering margarines or other socalled "healthy" foods of course this lowers your skins potential for making vitamin D3)

Quote:
Do you happen to know the difference between sea level and a mile high with the UVB?
This page makes for quite an interesting read
It all depends on a lot of things sums it up.

Quote:
I burn easily and don't really tan, so don't get enough sun when I go out because I try to remember to put on sunscreen and/or coverup.
First correct your vitamin D insufficiency Vitamin D3 is photoprotective, when your level is higher you will be less likely to burn.
Omega 3 is required to enable the heat and newly made vitamin D3 to be moved from the skin surface. The omega 3 makes each cell wall not only more permeable but also more flexible so more blood can get to the very surface of your skin and that helps protect you better. Most USA adults have an omega 3<>omega 6 ratio of between 1 n3 <> 16/20 n6 In the UK it's 1 n3<> 10 n6
IDEALLY the omega 3<>6 ratio should be 1<>1 and at most it should be 1 n3<> 4.5 n6. It is as, if not more, important to reduce Omega 6 as it is to build up omega 3 But in the IMMEDIATE situation 2g of omega 3 daily (sum of EPA + DHA numbers) will improve the situation.
In this post I have set out some other ideas but there is in fact more recent evidence and I really need to update that post with the new evidence.
Bear in mind human skin evolved living outdoors wearing fewer clothes. Our skin should naturally be able to adapt to sun exposure if a program of skin hardening is instituted gradually during the winter period with short but regular UV exposures. If your skin isn't able to withstand the sun then that is an indication it is maladapted to it's natural environment and you need to work at changing your diet and current UVB exposure practice so it becomes better able to withstand short non burning sun exposures.
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