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  #16   ^
Old Mon, Oct-25-10, 02:45
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didy
My husband suffered from clinical depression. He tried the meds and that made things much worse. I got him on a good supplemental program of D3, B-Complex, Magnesium, etc.... and that has done wonders! Way more than the meds ever did for him. He is not a low carber, but he did find out that he was D deficient, years after I had started him on supplements...and he was taking 1,000 mg a day then, now he has to take about 3,000 mg a day of the D3.
Bear in mind those are IU (international units NOT mg)
To get most people to have stored vitamin D3 in tissue requires a daily intake more like the amount human skin naturally makes given exposure to UVB. 6000iu/daily is a typical amount though of course there is a huge variation between individuals so regular 25(OH)D testing is required initially so you can work out how much your body needs to stay around the 60ng/ml level at which human breast milk is a complete vitamin D replete food for human babies.

While I'm all for people using D3, B-complex and magnesium I hope the etc means you also include OMEGA 3. While magnesium certainly works in synergy with vitamin D3 to reduce inflammation in the brain, omega 3 does the same but is working in a different complementary way so the brain inflammation is being dealt with on several different levels. You may also want to try Curcumin for depression that again works with Vitamin D3 by helping to activate vitamin D receptors but it's also able to work independently. So there are some things it does just like vitamin D3 but there are also some circumstances where the curcumin has a better effect than the D3.
There are good reasons to think that Curcumin has a role in weight loss and obesity prevention so it's worth everyone considering using it. While making sure there is plenty of Turmeric in your diet is one way we have to remember the bioavailability of standard spice turmeric is not very good.
There are better forms such as Meriva, Phytosome Curcumins or Super BIO-Curcumin They are of course somewhat more expensive so do use the available discounts such as $5 initial discount ~~~~~~ and spread your rewards code so everyone can benefit from the lowest possible price.
I use iherb because their shipping to UK makes then the cheapest for me.
Do check prices elsewhere such as Vitacost or Swansons as they may be cheaper for you depending on shipping.
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  #17   ^
Old Mon, Oct-25-10, 06:03
frisbena's Avatar
frisbena frisbena is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 492
 
Plan: my own thing
Stats: 350/269.0/199 Female 5'5
BF:
Progress: 54%
Location: Toronto Canada
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Sorry you are having a hard time. Everyone's experience is different I find. I have to say by reading the symptoms you are feeling, it kind of sounds like you might be dealing with Candida die off. This is common since you are starving the little yeasties when you begin on a low carb regime. Look into Candida online, you might be surprised what you find.
Hugs to you and feel better soon!
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  #18   ^
Old Mon, Oct-25-10, 09:40
Arcane Arcane is offline
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Posts: 39
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 266/154/148 Male 68 inches
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Where exactly did you get your information from regarding brain inflammation as being the cause of depression?

According to the forbes list of depression rates/countries, Nigeria comes out as the lowest rate of depression amongst the countries surveyed. The USA comes out at the top of the list. Do these Nigerians take omega 3 and magnesium supplements i wonder, I wouldn't assume they would be deficient in vitamin d?

The whole theory regarding nutritional deficiencies, neurotransmitters, low serotonin as the cause of depression is a hypothesis. The only drawback to this neat sounding theory is that it is almost completely unsupported by empirical evidence or scientific studies.

Why would cognitive behaviour therapy, distraction therapy, psychotherapy all be effective in treating anxiety and depression if there were such a nutritional deficiency or chemical imbalance?????

This whole theory reminds me of when I started the Atkins 13 years ago and how everyone forced their views on me about how eating all this fat would make me fat and how I'm more likely to get heart disease and a heart attack. How wrong were they.

Dont get me wrong, I do believe in nutritional deficiencies, but believing one size fits all shoes isn't viable as each individual persons depression is unique, and from what I have researched, it's far from nutritional deficiencies as a cause, it's more to do with environmental factors what contribute to a persons state of mind, which creates thought patterns that then become habitual.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutchinson
Show me a depressed person who is NOT vitamin D omega 3 or magnesium deficient.
It's inevitably the case that people who are deficient in one or all of those natural anti inflammatory agents will suffer more inflammation than is normal and eventually inflammation in the brain will cause damage that will present a depression.
Ensure all depressed people have magnesium,
Vitamin D3
and omega 3 deficiency states corrected almost always leads to an improvement in symptoms of depression.
Ideally as vitamin D3 omega 3 and magnesium work together in synergy better than individually it is more effective to correct all at the same time rather than trying to correct each separately.
Depression is a state where there is brain inflammation.

The idea that people who have deficiency states in natural anti inflammatory agents will not at some point in their lives eventually become depressed is frankly a load of boll*cks. You need the neuroprotection vitamin D, magnesium and omega 3 provide, if you choose to do without it eventually you will suffer the consequences.
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  #19   ^
Old Mon, Oct-25-10, 09:53
Arcane Arcane is offline
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Posts: 39
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 266/154/148 Male 68 inches
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Tumeric/Curcumin for depression? In my culture, It is said that Tumeric can actually accentuate the symptoms of depression because it is a very warming spice and detoxes the liver. They usually tell people to refrain from eating such heat forming spices.
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  #20   ^
Old Tue, Oct-26-10, 02:34
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane
Tumeric/Curcumin for depression? In my culture, It is said that Tumeric can actually accentuate the symptoms of depression because it is a very warming spice and detoxes the liver. They usually tell people to refrain from eating such heat forming spices.
Well there is plenty of recent research evidence showing how Curcumin is nueroprotective and while this is an emerging field of research there is very good reason to believe that Curcumin would be extremely helpful in treating depression

The main point is that Depressiis linked to Chronic Brain Inflammation and dealing with that inflammation with safe natural anti inflammatory agents like magnesium, vitamin D3, omega 3 that we are all (because of enviromental changes, plant breeding changes and lifestyle changes) deficient in, enables the brain to better deal with that inflammation. Curcumin is a safe natural anti inflammatory agent and because we know it is neuroprotective, is absolutely safe for people with depression.
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  #21   ^
Old Tue, Oct-26-10, 06:20
frisbena's Avatar
frisbena frisbena is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 492
 
Plan: my own thing
Stats: 350/269.0/199 Female 5'5
BF:
Progress: 54%
Location: Toronto Canada
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Hutchinson, I really appreciate all of your insight. I have a question for you. My last CRP test was off the charts so my inflammation is crazy. This was before starting low carb. I do take Vit D 6000 iu per day and magnesium. I am assuming Fish oil would be beneficial as well. Which is more important, EPA content or DHA? Also how much should I be taking? Any other suggestions for decreasing systemic inflammation?

Thanks!
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  #22   ^
Old Tue, Oct-26-10, 06:27
leemack's Avatar
leemack leemack is offline
NEVER GIVING UP!
Posts: 5,030
 
Plan: no sugar/grains LCHF IF
Stats: 478/354/200 Female 5' 9"
BF:excessive!!
Progress: 45%
Location: UK
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane
Where exactly did you get your information from regarding brain inflammation as being the cause of depression?

According to the forbes list of depression rates/countries, Nigeria comes out as the lowest rate of depression amongst the countries surveyed. The USA comes out at the top of the list. Do these Nigerians take omega 3 and magnesium supplements i wonder, I wouldn't assume they would be deficient in vitamin d?

The whole theory regarding nutritional deficiencies, neurotransmitters, low serotonin as the cause of depression is a hypothesis. The only drawback to this neat sounding theory is that it is almost completely unsupported by empirical evidence or scientific studies.

Why would cognitive behaviour therapy, distraction therapy, psychotherapy all be effective in treating anxiety and depression if there were such a nutritional deficiency or chemical imbalance?????

This whole theory reminds me of when I started the Atkins 13 years ago and how everyone forced their views on me about how eating all this fat would make me fat and how I'm more likely to get heart disease and a heart attack. How wrong were they.

Dont get me wrong, I do believe in nutritional deficiencies, but believing one size fits all shoes isn't viable as each individual persons depression is unique, and from what I have researched, it's far from nutritional deficiencies as a cause, it's more to do with environmental factors what contribute to a persons state of mind, which creates thought patterns that then become habitual.



Yes with very poor healthcare, very low life expectancy and a culture of violence, corruption and oppression, Nigerians are all running to their doctors reporting mild - moderate symptoms of depression. The forbes figures only give you reported cases which are affected by many things including stigma, culture, availability and accessibility of health care.

Lee
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  #23   ^
Old Thu, Oct-28-10, 09:54
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frisbena
Hutchinson, I really appreciate all of your insight. I have a question for you. My last CRP test was off the charts so my inflammation is crazy. This was before starting low carb. I do take Vit D 6000 iu per day and magnesium. I am assuming Fish oil would be beneficial as well.
Indeed, The DHA can actually help activate vitamin D receptor (as does curcumin) but in practice EPA is tends to be more effective for helping depression. As in general you can't get one without the other I don't worry too much providing the TOTAL EPA + DHA comes to at least 2g 2000mg daily at least initially. Do be quite firm/insistant about taking omega 3 if you suspect anyone you care about is potentially suicidal. When I get home (on holiday at the moment so not near my own pc) I'll link to the papers on self harm and omega 3. It really is a lot more important and potentially life saving than most people realise.


Quote:
Any other suggestions for decreasing systemic inflammation?

Thanks!
Start with Dr Ayers first blog and read everything including the comments on COOLING INFLAMMATION

Sorry time to go will try and come back to this post when I get home.
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  #24   ^
Old Fri, Nov-26-10, 03:31
ReAlly's Avatar
ReAlly ReAlly is offline
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Posts: 37
 
Plan: Stillman's
Stats: 249/155/114 Female 1.65
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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What's worked for me... making sure I have my vitamins.

Something that sounds so minor has a major impact on how I handle things.

Without vitamins, after about three days of low-carbing, I get irritable, weepy, feel always about to snap at someone - not good at all.

With vitamins, no problems at all. But it did take a long time to figure out the correct dosage for me.

Potassium: 3-4x day
Magnesium: 2x day

Give it a shot - within a day, you should really notice a difference (magnesium hits within a couple of hours).

Hope whatever you do works for you =0)
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  #25   ^
Old Sat, Nov-27-10, 04:50
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
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This conference includes at talk from Tomohito Hamazaki, M.D., Ph.D. on Omega-3 Fatty Acids, Bleeding and Suicide that is where I leant about how important omega 3 status is for reducing suicidal tendencies. It's a whole day conference so ideally try to download the complete day then take each lecture one at a time but skip the usual preliminary admin/welcome timewasters. I found the Sheila Innis CAPT Joseph R. Hibbeln, Robert G. Martindale, talks most interesting but most were worth hearing but the Hamazaki talk ranks high also.

Suicide Attempt and n-3 Fatty Acid Levels in Red Blood Cells: A Case Control Study in China

Last edited by Hutchinson : Sat, Nov-27-10 at 04:55.
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