Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Daily Low-Carb Support > General Low-Carb
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Thu, Sep-21-17, 12:04
TucsonBill's Avatar
TucsonBill TucsonBill is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 339
 
Plan: ≤ 20 carbs & IF
Stats: 292/235/170 Male 72 Inches
BF:
Progress: 47%
Location: Tucson, AZ
Default Another question for the experts here - Cortisol?

I have been having a generally all over achy feeling lately and it does seem to be in my muscles more than in my joints. I've taken a break from exercise for the past 4 days and I am a bit less achy but still having a bit of difficulty getting a good nights sleep. I have been reading and some of these symptoms may be from the low carb diet. Also, my BG has been averaging around 120 now and about 2-3 weeks ago I was down to averaging 109. Trying to figure out what is going on.

i have read that restricting carbs forces your body to rob glucose from your muscles - could that be causing me to be achy? Also, I read that the low carb diet can cause lower serotonin and result in sleeplessness.

Clearly, the benefits are outweighing the negatives here, but I'm just wondering of others have dealt with these issues and found any ways of mitigating them. I'm still doing some reading. Any thoughts on Melatonin?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Thu, Sep-21-17, 13:07
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

If the achiness is from exercise--I find active recovery is faster, if I do a lighter version of the exercise that got me in trouble in the first place, I'll feel better sooner.

The studies showing "carbs boost serotonin" are a bit faulty. The basic premise is that if you deplete the blood stream of other amino acids that compete with tryptophan to cross the blood brain barrier, you can jack up serotonin in the brain. It works, but basically by feeding subjects enough almost pure carbohydrate food to jack up insulin and deplete the blood of the non-tryptophan amino acids. I'd want to do a little more research before claiming that even this would work in a type II diabetic, or even somebody sufficiently insulin resistant. It's possible that it would take a much larger dose of carbohydrate to do the job, even if it did work.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...s-keep-you-sane




Quote:
Without the extra tryptophan boost, as little as 4% of protein in the meal will eliminate the carbohydrate tryptophan-boosting effect. To put that amount of protein into perspective, potatoes, rice, chocolate, and flour all have too much protein for them to increase tryptophan entry into the brain. One has to eat pure starch (or a sugary drink) to achieve the pharmacologic carb-serotonin effect, long enough after a previous meal that no protein remains in the gut.


This may explain in part why candy can be so rewarding, but I don't think chasing temporary peaks in serotonin is a good idea. When I see people making claims about carbs for serotonin, I usually see potato, potato, potato, or other foods with significant amounts of protein, nobody suggesting feeding people the sugary, protein-free crap used in the original studies.

But for whatever reason--some people do get sort of wired on a ketogenic diet for a time and have trouble sleeping, I'm not sure anybody really knows why. Something I've found is that I seem to sleep better if I don't eat too late in the day. Melatonin does help as well. I don't take it every night, but if I wake up around 1 in the morning and can't get back to sleep I'll take some then.
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Thu, Sep-21-17, 15:11
TucsonBill's Avatar
TucsonBill TucsonBill is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 339
 
Plan: ≤ 20 carbs & IF
Stats: 292/235/170 Male 72 Inches
BF:
Progress: 47%
Location: Tucson, AZ
Default

Thanks for the input on the exercise, I think I'll start up again and maybe not push myself quite so hard. Not exercising may be what's effecting my BG too because I noticed before that it always goes way down about an hour to an hour and a half after my workout. Just got back from my walk and it was 125 before and now it's 109.

I'll hold off on the Melatonin for now and give it a few more days, then if I'm still having problems I might give it a try. I did not even consider increasing my carbs, I already know what that does to my BG, (even a small increase in carbs sends it through the roof). I made the mistake of allowing myself one serving of mac & cheese on Sunday when I went with my daughter to a college event / cookout and I was screwed up for over 24 hours.
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Thu, Sep-21-17, 15:52
Mycie14's Avatar
Mycie14 Mycie14 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 877
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein, low carb
Stats: 200/178/155 Female 68
BF:
Progress: 49%
Location: Southern California
Default

Bill, are you usually at 120 throughout the day, or is that a morning fasting reading? My morning reading is always higher, despite different interventions I have tried.

If that is more of an all day reading, then you might check for carb creep (too many LC veggies, powdered artificial sweeteners, sugar alcohols like xylitol and malitol).
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Thu, Sep-21-17, 16:27
TucsonBill's Avatar
TucsonBill TucsonBill is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 339
 
Plan: ≤ 20 carbs & IF
Stats: 292/235/170 Male 72 Inches
BF:
Progress: 47%
Location: Tucson, AZ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mycie14
Bill, are you usually at 120 throughout the day, or is that a morning fasting reading? My morning reading is always higher, despite different interventions I have tried.

If that is more of an all day reading, then you might check for carb creep (too many LC veggies, powdered artificial sweeteners, sugar alcohols like xylitol and malitol).


The past few days my morning glucose has been about 135. I've had high readings in the morning on and off. Keep in mind that I have only been low carbing for about 6 weeks now and I am also still taking Metformin and Farxiga. I tried discontinuing the Metfomin and my BG shot up so I am not ready to stop it yet. I've decided to take the Diabetes Warrior approach when it comes to the meds and I'll and consider trying to eliminate the meds once my fasting BG goes down to below 100, (he waited till it was in the 70's).

https://www.diabetes-warrior.net/2010/01/24/mystory/

I've only been on meds for 6 weeks also. I count carbs very closely and I don't consider "net carbs". I may go up to 25 or 30 carbs in a day on occasion, but more often than not I'm at around 10 carbs a day or less. My keytones are always in the dark on the test strips and I check my GB about 5-10 times a day. It's working for me. I've lost 35 pounds in 6 weeks and I'm shooting for 3 pounds a week right now. Also my fasting BG is down from 250 to what it is now.
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Thu, Sep-21-17, 22:35
Mama Sebo's Avatar
Mama Sebo Mama Sebo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,202
 
Plan: Keto, IF
Stats: 224/136/124 Female 64 inches
BF:44%/23%/20%
Progress: 88%
Location: Kenya-teleworking Austria
Default

Hi Bill, I am one who must have the movement in the evening and morning to keep BG at bay. To get to really healthy numbers I have to sweat -- to really work out and use up what has been in the blood. I'm not doing so well at this as I 1) age and 2) head into the 4th year since my diagnosis as diabetic, and i am experiencing carb creep and exercise droop. Still working at it, but not getting over the hump to pull the BG down to a healthy level.
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Fri, Sep-22-17, 07:26
TucsonBill's Avatar
TucsonBill TucsonBill is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 339
 
Plan: ≤ 20 carbs & IF
Stats: 292/235/170 Male 72 Inches
BF:
Progress: 47%
Location: Tucson, AZ
Default

I read this article on carb creep:

https://www.verywell.com/how-to-avo...b-creep-2242091

As far as the symptoms go, the number one indicator is when weight loss stops. I have continued to lose about 3 pounds per week, (this past week it was 2.8 but still...). I am losing weight much faster than I even anticipated.

Number two is food cravings, not having that problem either. I a am still intermittently fasting and I have sort of doubled down on that since I quit smoking two weeks ago to avoid the weight gain that often accompanies smoking cessation.

The third issue, symptoms returning... I suppose the sleeplessness could fall into that category but the reason is totally different. Before I started low carbing, I was waking up 4-5 times a night to pee, not due to restlessness. I lost most of my water weight the first week and my edema has not returned.

My BG is another story, I was getting a lot of readings in the 90's during the day and then I quit the Metformin for about 10 days and my BG gradually went back up. It's gone back down since I resumed the Metformin but not as far down as it was before. Smoking cessation may have something to do with that as it is common for BG levels to increase, at least initially.

I just hate going backwards on anything so it's annoying. Everything was going good good good and nothing going backwards for the first 4 weeks.

From what I have read, it can take up to 24 weeks for BG to normalize on a low carb diet so maybe I just need to be more patient.
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Fri, Sep-22-17, 07:48
TucsonBill's Avatar
TucsonBill TucsonBill is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 339
 
Plan: ≤ 20 carbs & IF
Stats: 292/235/170 Male 72 Inches
BF:
Progress: 47%
Location: Tucson, AZ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama Sebo
Hi Bill, I am one who must have the movement in the evening and morning to keep BG at bay. To get to really healthy numbers I have to sweat -- to really work out and use up what has been in the blood. I'm not doing so well at this as I 1) age and 2) head into the 4th year since my diagnosis as diabetic, and i am experiencing carb creep and exercise droop. Still working at it, but not getting over the hump to pull the BG down to a healthy level.


Now "exercise droop" may be a culprit I quit exercising using the excuse I was going to give my body a few days to recover. I planned to add a resistance workout to my cardio this week and have not done it yet. I think I'll try what you are doing and do my cardio in the AM and my resistance in the late afternoon / evening and see what happens.

TY!
Reply With Quote
  #9   ^
Old Fri, Sep-22-17, 08:36
khrussva's Avatar
khrussva khrussva is offline
Say NO to Diabetes!
Posts: 8,671
 
Plan: My own - < 30 net carbs
Stats: 440/228/210 Male 5' 11"
BF:Energy Unleashed
Progress: 92%
Location: Central Virginia - USA
Default

I had a strange transition week occur in the early months of this WOE. I don't know what was going on under the hood, but I had terrible insomnia. My brain would not turn off at night. For days I was getting in less than 2 hours of sleep each night. One night I don't think that I got a wink of sleep at all. I wasn't doing any exercise at the time and I don't recall any issues with muscle pain or fatigue. Thankfully, this event was of limited duration. On the other end of it I was a different person. I had always been a light sleeper. I was a 'night person', too. I'd go to bed late (midnight or later) and wake up with the alarm. I enjoyed sleeping in on weekends. After that week of insomnia I synced up the rising and setting of the sun. For the first time EVER I became a morning person. I found it hard to stay up much past 10pm. I slept like a rock -- deeper than ever before. I started waking up to the chirping of birds, long before my alarm went off. I'd wake up clear headed (i.e. not groggy) and ready to hop out of bed to get my day started. At the height of the following summer I was waking up at 5:30 am and getting up before 6.

I used to think that morning people were crazy. When this transion happened to me I don't think I'd seen more than 10 sunrises in my entire life and some of them were from staying up all night - not getting up early. Then, suddenly, I became a morning person. Who'd have thunk it? Not me. It was not by choice. It just happened. I have been a morning person ever since. I sleep better than I ever have. I am now an "early to bed, early to rise" man. I'm still waiting for the 'healthy, wealthy, and wise' part of that saying. Well, the healthy part did happen and I am a little wiser that I used to be. Wealthy is the hold-out. I'm still hoping that the wealthy part is yet to come.

Again, I'm not sure what was going on inside during that week of horrid insomnia. I like to think that this is when my broken metabolism started to right itself. I defiantly found my circadian rhythm. Not long after this transition this WOE started to get easier. I also started getting fidgety when sitting around too much. So that is when I started an exercise regimen and I have never stopped. Perhaps another explanation for this event might be that my muscles were becoming fat adapted. Whatever the case, that week of insomnia was well worth it. I was in a much better place after it happened. I was barely under 400 pounds at the time, yet I felt so good. I didn't want anything to mess that up. So I stuck to my LCHF plan and kept the ball rolling in the right direction.

BTW: I love being a morning person. I get up early on weekends, hours before the rest of the family. I enjoy that alone time to collect my thoughts and prepare for the day.

Last edited by khrussva : Fri, Sep-22-17 at 11:33.
Reply With Quote
  #10   ^
Old Fri, Sep-22-17, 09:09
tess9132 tess9132 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 873
 
Plan: general lc
Stats: 214/146/130 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 81%
Default

Every time I get a large whoosh of weight loss (i.e. >2 lbs), I get muscle soreness. I believe it is a loss of potassium, so I make sure to supplement it. The soreness does go away, but whether it would go away on its own, I dunno.

I take melatonin every time I go out of maintenance and back into low carb. By about the third night, I am wired. The melatonin seems to work well. I only need it for a few nights and then my sleep returns to normal. Otherwise, I take melatonin if I wake up in the middle of the night and have difficulty falling back asleep. But I won't take it past 2:30 am since I'll get a bit of a hangover if I can't get a good five or six hours of sleep in after taking it.
Reply With Quote
  #11   ^
Old Fri, Sep-22-17, 10:45
msmum1977's Avatar
msmum1977 msmum1977 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,172
 
Plan: VLC/Carnivore
Stats: 369/301/299 Female 5'9"
BF:too much.
Progress: 97%
Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Default

I agree on the electrolytes as tess9132 mentioned. When I get that "dragged out" feeling or general soreness all over, I take a few potassium pills and it literally stops. Thirst (when I know I'm getting adequate liquids) or dry mouth also means potassium supplements for me.

I take magnesium before bed and that really helps too. When I first started, I had sleeplessness too, but now I'm experiencing what khrussva has explained...I can't keep my eyes open past 10 and sleep like a rock. I get up once around 2 p.m. to go to the bathroom, but I blame my two children and their natural births for that lol

just my thoughts here...
Reply With Quote
  #12   ^
Old Fri, Sep-22-17, 11:14
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

One more sleep issue for me, probably the one that comes up most often. As Ken said, early to bed, early to rise. I tend to nod off earlier, and wake up earlier. Given its druthers, my body seems to like going to bed at eight and waking up at four. If I'm kept up late, I'll hardly ever be able to sleep in the next day by much. Usually I'll stretch through til nine and wake up at five, last night we stayed later than usual at some friends and I nodded off around 11:30, woke up at five. I don't to too well on even mild sleep deprivation these days. If I could just get everybody I know to go to bed at eight, I'd be fine.
Reply With Quote
  #13   ^
Old Fri, Sep-22-17, 22:54
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,475
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
Default

I often get high readings ~120 in the am, it's "Dawn Phenomenon" I just ignore it because I don't usually eat breakfast, but my PCP says it's "pre-diabetes" which is rubbish. My day readings are less than 100, usually in the 80's. Plus A1c < 5. Two hours after eating a high-carb meal the other day it was 90.
Reply With Quote
  #14   ^
Old Fri, Sep-22-17, 23:02
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,475
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tess9132
I take melatonin every time I go out of maintenance and back into low carb. By about the third night, I am wired. The melatonin seems to work well. I only need it for a few nights and then my sleep returns to normal.
Ain't that the truth, I usually use Benadryl as melatonin, even a very low dose, gives me wild dreams.
Reply With Quote
  #15   ^
Old Sat, Sep-23-17, 09:15
TucsonBill's Avatar
TucsonBill TucsonBill is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 339
 
Plan: ≤ 20 carbs & IF
Stats: 292/235/170 Male 72 Inches
BF:
Progress: 47%
Location: Tucson, AZ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_d
I often get high readings ~120 in the am, it's "Dawn Phenomenon" I just ignore it because I don't usually eat breakfast, but my PCP says it's "pre-diabetes" which is rubbish. My day readings are less than 100, usually in the 80's. Plus A1c < 5. Two hours after eating a high-carb meal the other day it was 90.


Mine was 94 when I went to bed last night, I wake up this AM and it's 136... go figure...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:19.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.