This may be in the wrong forum, so Moderator may move it from "Research".

A friend sent these sites and 'information' to try and "save" me from the dangers of my high protein diet as per Atkins. So I will just put the message as she sent it.

Comments and especially dissent are invited from all interested parties here. is this good science?

BarB

ttp://www.twinlab.com/hothealth/march01/03_01_1.htm

THE ABOVE IS LARGE INFORMATIVE SITE ON SUBJECT..& I TOOK THE MAIN
PART ON HI PROTEIN & RELATIONSHIP TO POTASSIUM & BODY ORGANS..TO
PUT HERE FOR YOU. GO TO THE ABOVE URL TO SEE THE REST OF ARTICLE.

P.S. I WAS WARNED LONG AGO ABOUT HI PROTEIN DIET..& ZONE HAD SOMETHING ABOUT THAT TOO, I BELIEVE; I RECOLLECT..TO KEEP PROTEIN 30%..NOT HIGHER.

Hot Health News
Protein: Enough is Enough
Americans eat too much protein, a fact supported by the new study. The average participant in the NHANES III ate 79 grams of protein per day. Many Americans are currently enthused about high-protein/low-carbohydrate diets (e.g., the Atkins and Zone diets) and are consuming even higher amounts, often exceeding 100 grams of protein per day, an amount considered excessive by most doctors and nutrition experts. By comparison, the World Health Organization estimates that a safe level of protein intake for a healthy 150-pound adult is 52.5 grams per day. High protein intake increases the burden on the kidneys to eliminate
nitrogen-containing waste products from protein metabolism. The kidneys regulate the balance of sodium and potassium in the body, and are the long-term regulators of blood pressure as well. So it is not surprising to learn that, in addition to salt and potassium intake, the intake of protein appears t influence blood pressure.

Earlier studies provided conflicting results about the association between protein intake and systolic blood pressure.4 5 6 The new study found an association between high protein intake and high blood pressure. The researchers also found that this effect could be reduced by higher intake of potassium and magnesium. Thus, people with high blood pressure who wish to try a high-protein diet (like Atkins or Zone) are advised to reduce their risk of further raising their blood pressure by either choosing a lower-protein diet as an alternative, or consuming adequate amounts of potassium
and magnesium should they decide to consume a high-protein diet.

FROM ANOTHER MEDICAL SITE**********************IMP************
Health & Medical News
High Consumption of Animal Protein May Increase Risk of Bone Loss

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Friday, December 22, 2000
Leslie Harris (415) 885-7277

Elderly women who get a much higher intake of their dietary protein from animal products rather than vegetables have an increased risk of bone loss and hip fracture, a UCSF Medical Center study has found. The
study suggests that women may be able to improve bone health by eating more vegetables.

"We should be encouraged to eat more vegetables and realize that our diets play an important role for our bones as we get older," said lead researcher, Dr. Deborah Sellmeyer, director of the Bone Density Clinic
at UCSF Medical Center at Mount Zion. "There are lots of things we can do to improve bone health." The study was published in the January issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

In the study, researchers gave 1,035 women enrolled in the Study of Osteoporotic Fractures a food frequency
questionnaire, asking how much they ate of 64 different kinds of foods. They broke the food down into grams of protein, potassium, salt and other categories. They scrutinized the protein part more carefully, determining
how much protein the women were getting from animal products compared with vegetables.

The women, age 65 to 80, were grouped into three categories: those with a high ratio of animal to vegetable protein, a middle-range ratio and low ratio. Researchers took the ratio and compared it with bone mineral density, bone loss and fractures during a seven-year, follow-up period.

While there was no difference in initial bone mineral density among the groups of women, the high-ratio category had three times the rate of bone loss as the women in the low group during the follow up period. The high group also had 3.7 times the rate of hip fractures compared to the low group. This is after researchers adjusted for age, weight, estrogen use, tobacco use,
exercise, total calcium intake and total protein intake.

"We adjusted for all the things that could have had an impact on the relationship of high animal protein intake to bone loss and hip fractures," Sellmeyer said. "But we found the relationship was still there." The most significant possible reason for this link between high animal protein and bone loss and hip fractures is because animal products have a high amount of acid,
Sellmeyer said. Too much acid may be detrimental to bone health. While vegetables have some acid, they have much higher levels of base. Base is a bicarbonate,
a substance that works to neutralize acid. The body works to achieve a balance between base and acid and gets rid of excess acid through urine.
"Our bodies don't like too much acid so our kidneys help us adjust by excreting the acid in urine," Sellmeyer said. "But as we get older, our kidneys are less and less capable of excreting the acid." This causes bone-which is built of base and other components -- to step in to neutralize the acid. As a byproduct of this action, the bone dissolves over time-causing it to lose mass and calcium.

"We believe this happens very slowly, over decades," Sellmeyer said. Decreased bone mass makes fractures more likely.

While it appears that increasing consumption of vegetable protein and decreasing animal protein can decrease the risk of bone loss and hip fracture in elderly
women, Sellmeyer stressed that the point of the study is not to recommend women give up eating meat or cheese.

"Protein is very important in maintaining strong bones and muscles. We don't want people to stop eating animal protein," she said. "But we do want people to work in more fruits and vegetables into their diets -- not only because of the impact it could have on bone health, but also the impact it can have on lowering the risk of heart disease, diabetes and other illnesses. This study is yet another reason to eat more fruits and vegetables."
Other study researchers are Katie L. Stone, PhD, specialist in the UCSF School of Medicine; Anthony Sebastian, MD, UCSF professor of medicine and co-director of the General Clinical Research Center, and
Steven R. Cummings, MD, UCSF professor of medicine.
The National Institutes of Health funded this study.

Home | About Us | Our Hospital | News | Jobs | Find A Doctor

1 (888) 689-UCSF referral.center~ucsfmedicalcenter.org

Copyright 2002 UCSF Medical Center

The big question is whether any of the studies looked specifically at high protein consumption in the presence of tightly controlled carbohydrate consumption. If not, then it doesn't surprise me that people that eat a lot of carbs need to control their protein because of all the insulin in their system and the fact that they are in glucosis nearly all the time.

I do not understand why more researchers do not apply General Science 101: Establish a hypothesis and test the hypothesis.

Hypothesis: LC diets are bad for your blood pressure and blood lipid profile.

Test: Place people on a high-protein low-carb diet according to the leading plans for two months and measure the results and see what the outcome is.

Good or bad, I would really like to see the results.

But as long as they are trying to treat protein consumption as in independent factor separate from the rest of the dietary profile then the results are ambiguous and largely meaningless.

You will always be seeing this type of info in the news, as long as there is some area of "controversy" there will be a possibility of exploiting this for research $...

I would stick to reading the books if I were you, and not worrying about random "studies" floating around out there. There are only a handful of researchers who really understand (or care) about the priciples behind controlled-carb diets. Even with the most well-knows "studies" out there in the media that attempt to "study" low-carb diets, the way they are organized and presented, anyone who actuallly read any of Dr. Atkins books cover-to-cover and took notes could organize a much better study! The best info is info from real doctors working with real people over time. To wit: Dr Atkins, Protein Power, Life without Bread

Before you read some random "news", why not seek out and read about the studies mentioned in the back of Dr. Atkins or the Protein Power books? They would be much more elucidating IMHO!

But what does this have to do with Atkins-style low carb diets, which are NOT high-protein?

Wyv

Tofi, my response would be short and to the point:

A) Low carb is not high protein, it's high fat. I doubt that at any point in the past 4 years of low carb that my protein intake has exceeded 30% of my total calories. BTW..the article quotes 100 grams of protein as excessive and yet it's about 30% of total calories on a 1,200 calorie diet. If a person was maintaining at 2,000 calories per day, it would be 20% total calories.

B) Low carb includes plenty of fruits and vegetables.

The only thing to say about these studies is . . .garbage in-garbage out. The first study blames high protein for magnesium and potassim deficiencies. The truth is that healthy kidneys are well able to handle 100 grams or more of protein. As far as meat being acidic, grains are even more so. Once again, this study isolates protein and ignores what the protein is combined with. High insulin due to insulin resistance caused by a lifetime of high carbing causes the kidneys to waste potassium and magnesium, which not only leads to high blood pressure but possibly to dangerous heart arhythmias as well. High insulin is the culprit; protein is innocent.

The second study is the classic epidemiological hoohah. You take mass of data, sift through it for one variable, and, lo and behold, that variable ends up causing whatever you say it's causing. Then they speculate about how that variable goes about doing its damage, for which there is no scientific basis, and the press reports that too much protein causes bone loss. What garbage! As Wbahn pointed out, we have no information about what else the women who reported high animal protein were eating. Given the complex metabolic interactions of different combinations of nutrients, these data are worthless. As Rosedale points out, hyperinsulinemia not only causes the body to waste magnesium and potassium, but also calcium. So if you want to find the culprit for osteoporosis, follow the carbs.

This thread was started over 3 years ago!

And amazingly, we're still hearing stuff like this from the 'experts' today.