I was wondering if some of the folks who think the Atkins diet is bad would maybe list a few of their talking points for me. It's difficult to wade through the old posts, especially when the original posters are long gone, but I want a well-rounded view of it.

I understand the vegetarian "meat is murder" argument-- I was vegetarian for the last 5 years. It's an emotional issue, and one very similar to religion, so it's not something I'm going to debate with someone.

I'd really like to hear the main points about health problems. I was suspicious of the diet for a long time, but after some research, I really believe that this eating plan is in fact good for the heart and other organs.

I'd really like to know what are the most valid arguments that I'm mistaken. Thanks!!!

Thus far, all the "objections" to the Atkins way of eating have found no proof for them. In fact, any study that hoped to prove Atkins WOE was harmful to health or didn't work, have had to back down and admit they were wrong.

Now the main problem I have with it, is that detractors and critics characterize Atkins WOE as "no carbs, all meat and fat" and "unknown effects over time".

As we ALL know, properly done by the book, Atkins starts at 20 grams of carbs daily for ONLY 2 weeks, and then progresses upwards.

And Atkins had followed patients for over 30 years in his New York practice, as well as "doing Atkins" for all that time. And never a case of kidney or liver failure in his tens of thousands of patients.

The Atkins plan isnt anti vegetarian. You can in fact be a vegetarian and follow the Atkins plan. Being a vegan, Atkins says might be too restrictive but it isnt some sort of competition.

The only vegan groups that some of us have issues with on this forum are the radical extremist groups like peta and pcrm.

I am not sure what you are trying to figure out here as far as health problems? You want to know what health problems people developed on the plan? You want to know how its beneficial for you? Have you read the book? If not I suggest starting there and reading www.atkins.com.

As for my personal health... My overall cholestertol went down dramatically. My triglycerides went down over 200 points (They were super high even when I was 125 lbs). Ive dropped close to 80 lbs. My energy levels have soared. My kidneys are fine, my gallbladder is actually working, my liver is super, my pancreas is grateful, my bones are stronger, my brain still functions, my head is clearer, my lean muscle mass is reamining high while my fat is leaving, I am finally able to ovulate on my own regularly without meds and my PCOS symptoms are being controlled by diet alone, my skin hair and nails have never looked better, I no longer have mood swings and I am happier overall.

I have never been healthier and more energized in my life!

In the "Studies and Research / Media Watch" thread, while naturally bias towards low-carb, we remain open-minded. After 30 years of low-fat junk science shoved down our throat, we have learned to be skeptical of what so called experts say. Experts who have a large stake in maintaining the status quo. We post everything diet-related that is published in the media, be it positive or negative. We, unlike a lot of parties with vested interest in the low-fat dogma, do not suppress information. If there was any valid studies that clearly showed a problem with low-carb, we would know of it. Right now the whole low-fat community are watching like vultures, ready to pounce on the slightest sign that they haven't been wrong for the past 30 years. Low-carb is their own private Satan. So far they haven't managed to find anything concrete in the way of evidence. It's all supposition and theories not backed up by any facts.

So, this, more than anything else, tells me that low-carb is safe.

But the most convincing fact, in my mind, is that low-carb has been a natural way of eating for most of man's evolution. Grains and rice are a relatively new, in terms of evolution. And they can't even be eaten raw, which is another indication it's not a "natural" food for humans. Processed food is obviously very very new, and we are just starting to see how damaging it is for us.

The only valid criticism of Atkins that I have seen as of yet, is that occasionally it will cause a series of "withdrawal" symptoms as you wean yourself off the carbs.

Is not constipation and vitamin deficiency a problem? On Atkins I am under the impression that we must take our vitimans and also minerals if we don't want muscle cramps, and of course supplemental fiber for the constipation.

I must say I didn't take a multivitamin or supplemental fiber.

I had no regularity problems at all, but then I was eating lots of vegetables!

I do take CLA, an oil supplement. When I entered a month's eating into Fitday, I was near or over 100% in all vitamins and minerals, except for Vitamin D, which I've addressed by adding yogurt to my diet.

I don't think my previous eating would have come off so well! For instance, I used to struggle to get enough calcium, and on Atkins I hit 100%.

My mom's cholesterol went down 67 points, my blood pressure became optimum.

I don't think there are any health risks with Atkins. Characterizing it as a no-vegetable way of eating is completely off base. Most people here maintain that they have never eating so many different vegetables, and I know I'm eating more leafy greens than ever before.

A sore point with me is the way Atkins get criticized as "well, we can't find any short-term health problems, but we don't know of any long term effects, blah blah blah." In the meantime, the medical establishment supports bariatric surgery, which has definite long and short term health problems!

And in a country with epidemic diabetes, dissing the Atkins approach is extremely irresponsible.

I have never taken a fiber supplement and have had no problems being regular. I do eat plenty of veggies! I take a multivitamin and cod liver and borage oil when I remember to, but have gone for months without and have no cramps. I meet close to 100% of my daily vitamins and minerals without it.

Think about it? What is so important that you get from grains and what of that cant you get from better, unenriched sources?

The major nutrients we normally receive from grains are thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, folic acid (synthetic folate) and iron.

Grains are actually enriched with these nutrients.

Good sources of Thiamin in their unenriched form are ham, pork, nuts and seeds, bacon, liver, oysters, spinach, collared greens, asparagus, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, beef and chicken.

Good sources of Riboflavin include eggs, dairy, leafy greens and nuts.

You can get niacin from chicken, meats, tuna, fish and ham.

Folate is found mostly in leafy greens. Broccoli and spinach are excellent sources as well.

The best source of iron is found in red meat. Its in the form of heme-iron and very well absorbed... much better than the iron found in grains or in greens and dried fruits and nuts. If you are eating red meat you are set on iron.

I would be far more concerned about a vitamin deficiency when eating a diet high in refined carbs.

Everyone is different. Before Atkins, my intake was very heavy on vegetables. I built my meal around a large salad. That is not what brought on the weight, though. When I got on Atkins and went heavy on the cheese, soy protiens and fats, and limited my veggies and fruit, the constipation became a problem. I felt very restricted by having to limit my servings of vegetables to 1/2 cup. One size does not fit all.

On any diet those are problems. You're generally limiting your food and calories so you don't always hit the RDA. In fact, I'd be willing to bet most "standard" diets are deficient, or would be if people weren't eating things with vitamins added to them. I take a few supplements on nutrients I'm low on.

I have been constipated on just about EVERY diet I've been on, low carb, low fat, low calorie. The problem is you just have a lot less bulk to pass and it tends to hang out and get hard.

The solution is to get added fiber in the diet. Which is easy to do.

Why do you limit your veggies to half a cup?

I eat over 12 cups of veggies some days. I deduct the fiber, and as long as I am 20 carbs I am fine, I also dont eat a lot of cheese. Atkins said 3 cups a day or more. If you arent hitting the 20 carbs, or whatever carb level you are at daily, why not add more veggies?

Thanks for all the feedback! I've read the book and have been on induction myself for 3 weeks, and feel great. I'm just looking for the main talking points in the debate, so I can be well-versed in defending my chosen way of eating.

That may be true for the first few weeks of induction as the body goes through carb withdrawal and adjusts to the difference in diet, but vitamin deficiency has never been a problem for me with all the veggies I eat, nor has constipation.
As others have pointed out, changing the way you eat drastically can result in constipation or, I might add, diarrhea until the body readjusts. Such symptoms are usually only temporary...a few weeks at most.
The muscle cramps or aching is also something that may occur during the first few weeks when weight loss is rapid and/or you are urinating a lot; calcium, magnesium and potassium are all water-soluble vitamins and you tend to lose more of them when you are urinating frequently than when you are not. Again, though, the body usually readjusts within a few weeks making supplementation unnecessary for most after that point.
Having said all that, taking a daily multi-purpose vitamin isn't a bad idea for anyone. I'd be willing to bet that most people, even those following the standard food pyramid, don't get the minimum RDA of a lot of things, especially if their diets are high in starches and low in brightly colored veggies and fruits. The fruits and veggies allowed even on induction are some of the most nutrient-dense veggies there are, while grains and starches are generally nutrient-poor, so most people who switch to low carb and trading nutrient-poor foods for nutrient-dense ones and calorie for calorie (or carb for carb) are getting better nutrition than they were before.

OK - Kyrie, you asked to hear some criticism, and are getting why the critics are wrong. So although I am not anti-Atkins, let me try - it seems none of the real anti-Atkins warriars are around.

I tried Atkins twice and switched to South Beach. Why? I am obviously still committed to low carb in the sense that I agree that refined "wonderbread" and sugar and not fat made the majority of us fat!

I did feel that two cups of veggies was not enough, and I did have problems with constipation on Atkins. I realized that this would have to become a way of life if I am not willing to risk yoyo dieting forever. I did not like counting carbs, which meant weighing everything I eat - since I often don't eat at home, that was practically difficult. I could not imagine what was so harmful to most fruits, so the idea of damning apples from my diet wasn't appealing either.

Atkins also clearly recommends a whole bunch of supplements. I am in favor of keeping things natural, so not needing various oil and vitamin supplements sounded more appealing. In contrast, when I read: don't try low fat, don't trim the fatty parts of the meat away, that was just not appetizing to me. I don't eat pork, so the whole bacon etc. didn't appeal at all. I know many on Atkins here supplement with extra fat - didn't feel right for me.

Last, it is pretty clear that when in ketosis, you are extremely, sometimes dangerously (e.g. if going out in company and you have to drive home later), sensitive to alcohol. There is a whole thread on it. I have experienced that too. Even on South Beach, I was in ketosis in phase 1, I am pretty sure. I simply like my occasional (LC) beer and glass of wine, and didn't feel well with that. Again, since I didn't want to be in a diet mode but in a switch way of eating mode, a diet that didn't allow alcohol wasn't going to work long term for me. I also felt not well in ketosis - although I have read enough that I trust it would have gone better later on.

SO, mostly, it is more a personal choice - what can I imagine to do most of my life?

In addition, regarding health, there are several on the South Beach Forum who switched from Atkins to South Beach because their cholesterol and other fat blood values were skyrocketing and their physicians said: don't continue - don't risk it. Not me - I am just fine thank you on whatever I ate. While I am aware of some studies that show blood values improving on Atkins even more than on low fat diets, everyone is different, and there are enough people in the South Beach forum who complained about bad cholesterol values etc. that I think there may be some truth that for SOME people on a high fat diet like Atkins is so healthy.

So, hopefully this is a moderate criticism you wanted to hear.

Monika-- thanks!

I intend to get a full blood screen once I've been on atkins for 6 weeks, the recommended time.

Also, it's three cups of veggies, not two! I've seen a lot of people who treat that as a minimum, as long as carbs stay below 20.

I know that the company sells vitamins, but didn't Dr. A insist that you can get what you need from fresh food? I'm going to input the recommended one week induction menu into fitday to see how the nutrition anlysis works out.

As for alcohol-- I don't drink much anyways, so I'm ok waiting until a later stage for my low-carb bourbon.

Thanks so much!!!

I gotta correct some of these errors with your Atkins perception, Monika. I hope you don't mind a friendly rebuttal.



That phase of Atkins is supposed to last for 2 weeks. After that, you can add a LOT more low carb veggies and even things like nuts and berries. In fact, you can add back in all low glycemic food until you find a level of carb intake where you quit losing weight, or start to get cravings.

For some reason, that is the biggest misconception about Atkins. I typically have 4-5 cups of spinach/salad greens when I eat a salad. I eat tons of broccolli, asparagus, brussel sprouts and so on. Sometimes my meals don't even have meat. They'll be an enormous salad. In fact, it'd be awfully hard for vegetarians to do Atkins if your two cups of veggie claim were actually true. And yes, there are vegetarians active on this MB doing Atkins.



Well, the big departure between Atkins and SBD is that Atkins doesn't believe there is anything wrong with fats, even saturated fats. From the research I'm reading about fat and heart disease, I tend to agree. However, I think SBD is smart to promote eating of the good fats.

As far as supplements, I follow my instincts on them. I suspect they are probably a good source of income for any diet doctor who sells his own line. So I plug what I eat into fitday and supplement those vitamins that I'm low on. There's really no proof that taking supplements is useful or even safe. So I am skeptical about it.

Fiber is another thing people complain about. There's absolutely no reason you can't consume enough fiber on Atkins. I use low carb cereals that have tons of fiber. In fact, even things like low carb milk and ice cream have fiber in them. And, there's always the stuff like psyssilium husks.



I just found I don't have to drink as much to get a buzz. So whereas it might have been 2 beers got me happy, now 1 does. I'm a cheaper date. But I don't drink often anyway. Its just something to keep in mind when you go out.



That's typical of any low carb diet for the first couple of weeks. I don't know if it is ketosis or just your system going through carb withdrawls. I remember hearing CAD dieters complaining of it also.

Anyway, I find the entire cholesterol heart disease theory is losing credibility as time goes on. New research is showing that our heart disease problem in this country is probably more related to insulin than cholesterol and even the SBD diet doc is saying he thinks dietary fat makes little difference in heart disease. And both diets do lower your insulin levels which is probably the most crucial health and life extending thing you can do with your diet.

So, in the end, my body loves Atkins and not getting hungry and losing weight and eating good foods, including probably at least as many veggies as you do.