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  #571   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 11:47
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,791
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 212/179/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Rural Maine
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I'm pretty sure it originated (or was made popular) with Atkins. He advocates a "fat fast" for the metabolically resistant. In its simplest form, you eat 10 ounces of cream cheese in one-ounce servings throughout the day. You end up getting about 1000 calories.

There are many variations -- the meat & egg fast and the yogurt fast, to name two.
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  #572   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 12:56
Rob21370's Avatar
Rob21370 Rob21370 is offline
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Posts: 225
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 336/297/140 Male 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 20%
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayustar
Well, I should propose an idea here....

Why don't we take some of us here who are already on the meat and egg fast or have been on it and have them do it for a month, very strict.

Then have someone who eats a more varied low carb diet and have them go on meat and egg and see what happens. I am game. I do the meat and egg fast almost exclusively, but sometimes I break and have vegetables and nuts, I try to stay away from peanuts but they are the devil, that is beside the point though.

What do you guys think? Do it for a month or so, very strict, no dairy other than butter? Whatever fats you like, mayo included?


I'm all up for it! I started the diet on 2/21. The next day we took a co-worker out to lunch for their final day and I had a cheese burger, no bun, and had a blue cheese salad instead of fries. That was the last piece of vegitation I ate..so that comes to approx. 2 1/2 weeks so far on eating nothing but various meats, cheese and eggs.

I'm losing weight much faster then the 4 previous times I really concentrated on a "low-carb" diet when supposedly the conventional wisdom says that as you re-do low carb it gets harder and harder to lose the weight. Other things that I haven't experienced since doing it zero-carb is none of the muscle cramp things, no real cravings for anything sweet or starchy, and I've tried to be consistant in eating 2 meals a day roughly the same size.

I can't tell you the number of times I used "low carb" products like the ice creams and found myself eating the real thing within hours of treating myself to that kind of thing. This time I gave up all of that crap, no allowances of 20-40g per day or whatever it was/is, the high fiber tortillas, the faux products and the faux mashed potatoes. You know, that faux pototoes/cauliflour thing has to be one of the most disgusting things I've ever eaten.
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  #573   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 13:11
SkeeterX's Avatar
SkeeterX SkeeterX is offline
No Cheats Ever!
Posts: 2,336
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 291/163/155 Female 67 inches
BF:
Progress: 94%
Location: NE WI
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I've been solely on meat and eggs for 1 week now. Last nite I was up at 3 am with leg cramps that shot me straight out of bed. Today I picked up some Magnesium and Potassium tablets. Not going to go through that again. I lost 5.8 lbs this week though. I know this is the way I need to go.
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  #574   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 13:19
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicknLady
Except perhaps in more tropical regions, most of early humans did not live in a Garden of Eden...

I think people forget that there were very few vegetables that were palatable to humans when we were evolving. Try eating dandylion leaves- a typical wild green that would have been around in prehistoric times- as an example of what I'm trying to say.
Beth,

Love this post of yours! This has been what I have been trying to get others to see... that it would be SO illogical for our species to eat vegetation, so long as there were bugs and beasts around to eat! Especially in northern regions of the world, where my ancestors are from. I guess people just cannot see a world like that... one without all this "good for your health" vegetation.

Last edited by PaleoDeano : Sat, Mar-11-06 at 13:38.
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  #575   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 13:22
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob21370
I can't tell you the number of times I used "low carb" products like the ice creams and found myself eating the real thing within hours of treating myself to that kind of thing. This time I gave up all of that crap
Good for you, Rob!
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  #576   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 13:25
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Bear,

Another great post! Thanks so much for taking the time to answer so many questions and to do it with so much knowledgeable insight. People gotta respect you for that! This WOE of yours is making more sense all the time.

BTW... made that chicken with cream cheese/butter/spices pushed under the skin. What can I say, except and !!!

Last edited by PaleoDeano : Sat, Mar-11-06 at 15:14.
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  #577   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 13:27
Rob21370's Avatar
Rob21370 Rob21370 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 225
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 336/297/140 Male 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 20%
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleoDeano
Good for you, Rob!


Thanks Deano. I just saw your post on the pork steaks in the Paleo eaters who eat veggies thread. Very funny
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  #578   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 14:21
Paleoanth's Avatar
Paleoanth Paleoanth is offline
Slothy Superhero
Posts: 12,159
 
Plan: Vegetarian Atkins
Stats: 165/145/125 Female 60 inches
BF:29/25.2/24
Progress: 50%
Location: Tennessee/Iowa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear

Humans have classic insectivorous dentition. We have no 'grinding' molars like bovines. Our molars are bug-crushing, cannot grow, have unsealed groves which quickly admit bacteria, and thus cannot tolerate abrasion and carbohydrates- they wear away and rot. SOME carnivores need and have shearing teeth, (carnassals), Many animals both carnivores and omnivores as well as some frogs(!) and a deer- have long canines (tusks)- these are used always as display and fighting with some utility as holding tools. We have mouths for speech, and tusks are of no aid when you have knives.


No, we don't. Insectivores and carnivores have sharp cresty molars and small incisors. You can say what you want, but I have NEVER seen human dentition described as "classically insectivorous". In fact our dentition is considered generalized in order to be able to consume different kinds of foods.

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache...d=12&lr=lang_en

For various views of human dentition:http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/wa...nDentition.html

I have no idea what you are doing discussing tusks. Our ancestors didn't have them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
Humans make and use knives- and have done so for ~4.5 million years. Enamel meant to wear grows continuously and is shaped in rolls, the layers separated by dentine, such as all ruminants have. Compared to rats and pigs, our teeth have a very thin and fragile enamel coat. Apes are very distant relations, and their teeth are not a good comparison. I am very well educated on anatomy and comparative anatomy. I am not telling stories, and I did not intend to teach ancient diets and I do not intend to lecture the group on body structures and purposes, but I do feel from time to time a need to clear up widespread misunderstandings of structure.


No problems with the above. I am not talking about ancient diets, I am just trying to clear up some misconceptions you have about human dentition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
Where have you been? Gorillas proved sterile in captivity when fed on a total herbivorous diet- It was then discovered that in the wild they consume quantities of insects, principally wood-grubs and their massive back musculature is a specialisation to assist pulling the bark from trees to get at the bugs. Once the nature of the animal food acceptable to gorillas was known, zoos have been able properly feed, and to breed them successfully. With as many papers and studies on chimpanzee hunting/gathering behaviour, I am astounded that you do not understand their dietary habits. Then again, what gorillas and chimps eat is not relevant to human diet, which is what my thread is all about.



Interesting. I hadn't heard the gorilla insect/grub thing. I am going to go look that up now. If you have any references, I would like to read them.
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  #579   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 15:22
JandLsMom's Avatar
JandLsMom JandLsMom is offline
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Posts: 1,719
 
Plan: atkins induction
Stats: 330/330/165 Female 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Illinois
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Gearing myself up for meat, eggs, and cheese...i will start wednesday! (thats the end of week 3 induction for me and my weigh in wed morning)
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  #580   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 16:55
LadyArya's Avatar
LadyArya LadyArya is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 640
 
Plan: No one plan
Stats: 208.5/180.5/150 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleoDeano
Bear,
BTW... made that chicken with cream cheese/butter/spices pushed under the skin. What can I say, except and !!!


Not to steal Bear's thunder, but I used to do something similar to chicken thighs - top em with some cream cheese and dill .... mmmmm! If you haven't tried that spice with this, I definitely say give it a try

EDIT: come to think of it, it's not just dill. it's dill & garlic.

Last edited by LadyArya : Sat, Mar-11-06 at 17:22.
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  #581   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 20:06
lynnp's Avatar
lynnp lynnp is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 4,072
 
Plan: My Version of M/E
Stats: 284/000/140 Female 65 inches
BF:54%/49.5%/25%
Progress: 197%
Location: Rhode Island
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Chicken with cream cheese on top and wrapped in bacon is great after baking
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  #582   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 20:46
theBear theBear is offline
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Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
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It is the casein in cheese which causes the binding. It makes an excellent glue. Elmer's is an example.

Leg cramps may mean not enough stretching.

(an aside)-

In the current Weekend Australian Magazine there is a badly written article trashing Atkins personally and his diet, calling it a 'fad'. It is full of inaccuracies, gossip and innuendo. A shame, really. I have been thinking about writing a letter, but I have not had much luck in getting my letters to the Australian published of late. I think they don't like the way I question government policy. My most recent effort last week, was to point out that the 'strict conditions' under which Oz sells uranium to the nuclear-armed powers was a total joke- and that Aussie U was being made into weapons all the time. Buyers must only promise not to use an equal amount as is Aussie sourced, from their combined stockpile, in munitions manufacture! I don't think this even includes depleted uranium projectiles.

Odd, I state that we have sharp, cresty molars (didn't you ever bite your cheek or tongue?) and small canines then amazingly, someone cites that as a contradiction? Seriously? Hmmm, I guess some people feel that they must defend their strongly held myths against all comers even if it means using contradiction and illogic and untruth. The references cited confirm my statements. I guess good reading/comprehension is not a universal. 'Tusks' are a term for prominent teeth, they usually are the canines. As pointed out our insectivore ancestors probably did not have very prominent ones, and we therefore never developed them, instead modifying the mouth structures which favour specialisation for speech.

What you 'have never seen' is not a valid argument nor a substantiation of your belief system. There is no scientific argument against the fact we belong to a remote branch of the insectivores. My teeth are STILL very sharp, since I never was much into chewing abrasive foods. None of my teeth have been lost to caries or wear. I have not had any problems other than mechanical damage with any of them. I harbour no 'misconceptions' about human dentition.

The chook recipe is not about cream cheese topping. I derived it from a traditional Russian recipe for Chicken Kiev, in which flavoured butter is placed in a pocket cut INTO the chicken breast meat. The breast is then breaded and deep fried. The meat becomes soft and melts in your mouth. The cream cheese and butter mix with the spices is placed under the skin, in contact with the meat, the cheese helps prevent the butter-mix from melting to the point of running away inside as well as on the outside. Dill is good- but stronger spices work best.

Salt is not good for a fat burner.

I like a bit of bacon from time to time, but I have a lot of trouble finding bacon which is not heavily loaded with salt. Soaking in water is not a very good solution.

Salt is not good in your food, it is a chemical- and will damage your skin and your kidneys over time. It also interferes with fat metabolism. When I was a dancer, I used no salt in anything, I drank huge amounts of plain water during class, and never had a bit of problem, whereas the other dancers scarfed salt tablets like candy and still had problems- plus their clothes dried out with a heavy salt rime on them. The skin and the kidneys are forced to shed excess salt and cannot quickly stop, however if you eat at least 30 gm of meat a day you will get all the salt you need, the urine and sweat can go as low as a few parts/billion of salt to conserve it.

Last edited by theBear : Sat, Mar-11-06 at 20:50. Reason: errors
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  #583   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-06, 21:48
Paleoanth's Avatar
Paleoanth Paleoanth is offline
Slothy Superhero
Posts: 12,159
 
Plan: Vegetarian Atkins
Stats: 165/145/125 Female 60 inches
BF:29/25.2/24
Progress: 50%
Location: Tennessee/Iowa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear

Odd, I state that we have sharp, cresty molars (didn't you ever bite your cheek or tongue?) and small canines then amazingly, someone cites that as a contradiction? Seriously? Hmmm, I guess some people feel that they must defend their strongly held myths against all comers even if it means using contradiction and illogic and untruth. The references cited confirm my statements. I guess good reading/comprehension is not a universal. 'Tusks' are a term for prominent teeth, they usually are the canines. As pointed out our insectivore ancestors probably did not have very prominent ones, and we therefore never developed them, instead modifying the mouth structures which favour specialisation for speech.

What you 'have never seen' is not a valid argument nor a substantiation of your belief system. There is no scientific argument against the fact we belong to a remote branch of the insectivores. My teeth are STILL very sharp, since I never was much into chewing abrasive foods. None of my teeth have been lost to caries or wear. I have not had any problems other than mechanical damage with any of them. I harbour no 'misconceptions' about human dentition.


You did not say that we had small canines-you described human dentition as carnivorous and then as insectivorous. Both of which have different dentition than we do. I don't know what strongly held myths you think I have-but again, I am not bashing your diet or dietary preferences. I really don't care what you eat or why you eat it. I was just trying to point out some things that you stated as biological fact that are not true. Believe me or not. The references cited, that I provided as you provide none, do NOT back up your statements. At least not your statements about human dentition. You have not provided any references backing up your statements. Personal, anecdotal experience about your own dentition is not valid scientifically.

I am perfectly willing to be proven wrong. I am perfectly willing to admit I don't know everything. In fact, when you mentioned the gorillas, I did look it up and I found the grub eating observations very interesting. However, you are now attacking me on a personal level.

I guess politeness is also not universal. Since you have implied that I am stupid and cannot comprehend any reading material that I cite. Nice. Thanks. I will be sure to let my dissertation committee know that I am a complete moron.
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  #584   ^
Old Sun, Mar-12-06, 00:53
theBear theBear is offline
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Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
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I never said we had 'carnivore' teeth- if you define that as the dentition of cats and dogs. I also did not say we had 'insectivore' teeth like bats etc. I noted that the primate lineage was insectivorous in deep antiquity and our dentition was derivative of that origin. Our mouth shape and jaw motion is specialised for speech, not chewing or grinding food. Our teeth changed with the development of both speech and the use of knives. Our teeth have absolutely no relationship, in either structure or durability to the teeth of herbivores and fully evolved omnivores like the rodenta.

Sorry, I am not trying to show you as less than you are, but the tooth shape and description I found on your references did nothing to detract from my stand on this, thus the comment on comprehension- I think you selectively choose to observe only the aspects of dentition which serve your viewpoint of us as omnivores.

Unfortunately the human mixed or omnivorous diet in 'recent' times- i.e., prior to today's dentistry- meant that virtually no-one had any teeth left in their head by the age of thirty. Many people, indeed most- died from abscessed teeth. Compare that to the animals whose diet is either herbivorous or omnivorous, who do not have access to dentistry- they live a full lifespan without serious problems from their dentition. Say what you like, you cannot change truth into falsehood nor fables into reality: If we eat no carbs, our teeth will outlast us- no matter how long we live.
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  #585   ^
Old Sun, Mar-12-06, 01:06
theBear theBear is offline
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Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
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I am not attacking anyone, just asking a couple of reasonable questions based on observed behaviour, both of which have been on my mind for a while now:

Just WHAT is meant by 'Vegetarian Atkins?', other than, of course, an oxymoron?

Does 'Depraved Superhero' mean that you feel you must attempt to show all others as having 'ordinary, non-hero' status... if you can?

Or is this just your way of exhibiting an odd sense of humour on a basically egalitarian and meat-oriented dietary thread?
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