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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Oct-10-02, 08:53
Cyprinodon Cyprinodon is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 163
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 104/108/104 Female 5' 3"
BF:22%/17%/14%
Progress: 200%
Location: Waxahachie, TX
Default Questions About High Intensity Low Volume Training

My weight training experience is with high volume (exercise videos such as The Firm) or gym workouts of 3 sets/10 to 15 reps. I've seldom reached failure other than on triceps. I have read up on high intensity low volume training and tried it once for each body part just this week. I don't feel like I'm doing it right becasue I don't feel like I'm doing much at all. I did get upper body soreness but not lower. My questions:

What are some of the common mistakes beginners make?

While personal training is always best, I don't think its always "that much best" when you really need to spend your money on food and rent. For high intensity training, does the need for a personal training increase in importance? Is it harder to "do it right" simply by reading and experimenting?
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Oct-10-02, 15:16
Shark01's Avatar
Shark01 Shark01 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 568
 
Plan: Shark Cycle Plan
Stats: 410/323/250
BF:
Progress: 54%
Location: Houston Tx
Default

I'm a real HIT advocate. Two sets for most major exercises. The key is going to full rep failure EVERY time, and past this point a lot of times (for me, I go past failure on the 2nd set of all exercises). If you are not REALLY sore, there is a lack of intensity.

I mean the first few times, walking two days later is a real event the soreness is so intense.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Oct-11-02, 08:39
Cyprinodon Cyprinodon is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 163
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 104/108/104 Female 5' 3"
BF:22%/17%/14%
Progress: 200%
Location: Waxahachie, TX
Default Frequency?

How often do you do HIT? I was thinking of doing it twice a week but now I think that twice a week would make me go around horribly sore all the time.
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Oct-11-02, 09:28
Shark01's Avatar
Shark01 Shark01 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 568
 
Plan: Shark Cycle Plan
Stats: 410/323/250
BF:
Progress: 54%
Location: Houston Tx
Default

If you really work hard, once a week the first 6-8 months is enough. Then you might consider going to working each body part twice every 10 days. Twice a week training that hard is pretty much insane
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Oct-11-02, 15:05
Cyprinodon Cyprinodon is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 163
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 104/108/104 Female 5' 3"
BF:22%/17%/14%
Progress: 200%
Location: Waxahachie, TX
Default Thanks Shark

I have one more question to bug you with (I've read everything I can find that's free on the Internet, including the stuff at cyberpump.com, but I haven't been able to develop a clear idea of how to incorporate HIT into my training routine. Maybe Alzheimer's is finally showing up and I just no longer understand what I read ). If I am doing HIT once a week, is it useful or harmful to do a higher volume/lower intensity work out with weights on a second day that same week? I was thinking of continuing with my Firm work outs: barbell 25 pounds, maximum dumbells 2 x 10 pounds except heavier for back work, and a bazillion reps of everything.

Thanks
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Oct-11-02, 16:33
Shark01's Avatar
Shark01 Shark01 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 568
 
Plan: Shark Cycle Plan
Stats: 410/323/250
BF:
Progress: 54%
Location: Houston Tx
Default

Incorporating different types of workouts each week falls into the training style called micro-periodization. Now, I don't think this is a bad thing neccessarily (in fact, I'm reading a book covering this now), but training in a strict HIT style demands a great deal of recovery time because of the high level of stress incurred. As you may know, the muscles grow during the recovery period.....so any interruption really interferes with success.

I guess it's appropriate to ask what your goals are both short and long term. Maybe HIT isn't what you are looking for. In my opinion it's the most effective, but also the hardest in terms of effort put forth.

Feel free to ask any questions, and I have a lot of information about HIT in my journal, from about pg 10-15.
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, Oct-14-02, 12:57
Cyprinodon Cyprinodon is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 163
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 104/108/104 Female 5' 3"
BF:22%/17%/14%
Progress: 200%
Location: Waxahachie, TX
Default Hi Shark

My goals are to gain significant muscle size and strength in my triceps, glutes, and quads plus a little bit more size and strength elsewhere. If I ever lose the fat I'm trying to lose off of my thighs, they aren't going to be big enough around to look like anything other than bird legs because they are the right size now, just comprised of jiggly fat with the cellulite look . I want the legs of a female body builder with the arm definition of Linda Hamilton on Terminator 2 (not sure about the size there). I don't know if this woman is still around but the leg look I like is on Gladys Portugese back in the 1980s. The need for increased leg strength is especially motivating as I have quadricep problems (unusual weakness and lactic acid burn) during cardio and many times just by everyday activities. I wasn't weak like this when I was young and used to run 36 to 50 miles per week no sweat. I watched my grandmother go through the same increase in leg weakness/quadricep pain over time until she moaned and groaned anytime she had to walk across a room. I also want to train heavy for my bones as I am at risk of osteoporosis. I've managed to get my arms, upper back, and shoulders about 90% how I want them but my lower body is far behind. I have yet another reason for wanting to gain as much muscle as I can without overdoing it and looking too big. Due to my job in a medical school, I have seen the cross section of a thigh on the torso of an 80+ year old female. The fat layer around the muscle was less than 1/4 inch thick all the way around - this woman walked on sticks. The marbled fat in the muscle layer was gross; greater than 60% I'd say. All I could figure was that this stick thin woman didn't eat much but also didn't exercise enough. The picture of that motivates me a bunch.

The only thing I've made sore with my attempts at HIT have been my shoulders so I guess I still haven't done it right. I am limited on free weights as I don't have a spotter and I'm afraid to go super heavy without one. The machines available to me are Cybex, many of which jump 20 pounds with each additional plate. For example, this morning I tried 90 pounds on the chest press and couldn't even budge it. I went to the 70 pound plate and got in 9 reps. Now I wonder if: (1) I could have budged that 90 pound plate with the right attitude; or (2) I could have gone further than 9 reps with the 70 pounds with the right attitude. I immediately dropped down to 50 pounds when I failed at 9 reps and got in 5 more reps before failure. I keep remembering in the BFL book where the guy talks about doing more than you think you can and wonder if I'm wimping out instead of really reaching failure.

I've spent my whole life learning "how to" by reading. This method for my learning has included piano, clothing construction, and tap dancing. I don't know why I can't figure out how to do HIT by reading but it might have something to do with attitude - - at least I hope it's that as attitude is preferable to being too old to learn new tricks (42). If I had the money for a trainer, I'd go for it.

What do you think? Is HIT right for me with my goals or do I need to look elsewhere in your opinion?

Thank you so much for all of the information. It has been very helpful.
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Oct-14-02, 14:56
Shark01's Avatar
Shark01 Shark01 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 568
 
Plan: Shark Cycle Plan
Stats: 410/323/250
BF:
Progress: 54%
Location: Houston Tx
Default

I think you built some muscle just by doing all that typing

I remember Gladys well, used to be married to Jean Claude VanDam if I remember correctly. Interesting that have only felt soreness in your shoulders so far on HIT. I usually have a harder time geeting a feel from them than anything else. A couple of things I do to check for soreness (because it's not obvious all the time, and if adjacent body parts are both sore (ex chest and front delt (shoulder) it's hard to isolate them) is do bodybuilder flexes (like they pose in competition) or sit at my desk and do the exercises from the previous section without the weight and tensing my body like there is weight there. Try both.

As far as the Cybex machines go (and they are pretty good), the 20 lb jump is not condusive to proper training. Ask the people who run the gym if they have any "adder" plates available. These are loose 5 and 10 lb plates that you can sit on top of the stack to add more weight without having to move the pin under another 20 lb plate. Because going from a 9 rep range to 0-1 rep isn't doing you any good for progressive training.

Really training to failure is a tough lesson to learn. I wrote like a full page on training to failure in my journal the other night, and just last night detailed ways to go past failure (one being the "double drop" technique you employed by going to failure, then immediately dropping the weight and going to failure again.

HIT is something you can learn from reading (although I have been very fortunate to learn from very proficient trainers) and there are some great books available, such as "Heavy Duty" by Mike Mentzer, and "Blood & Guts" by Dorian Yates, and the website www.cyberpump.com

Actually your goals and what HIT can do fit together very nicely. If you can assemble the right information, I think you will do quite well with it
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  #9   ^
Old Mon, Oct-14-02, 15:33
Cyprinodon Cyprinodon is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 163
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 104/108/104 Female 5' 3"
BF:22%/17%/14%
Progress: 200%
Location: Waxahachie, TX
Default

You should see the definition in my fingers. Contest level if you ask me

The adder plates and the trick for knowing if you have some minor soreness is news to me. The gym I go to is new and has suggestion cards laying around asking for ideas. I'm going to request adder plates for the Cybex machines (after I check and make sure they don't already have any as I suspect) thanks to You . I'm glad you pointed out that learning to go to failure is tough - - makes me think that I'm not insane but rather I really haven't gotten failure all figured out yet. I think I need to dig deeper! I'm going straight to your journal for ideas.
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  #10   ^
Old Mon, Oct-14-02, 19:59
Shark01's Avatar
Shark01 Shark01 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 568
 
Plan: Shark Cycle Plan
Stats: 410/323/250
BF:
Progress: 54%
Location: Houston Tx
Default

Here's an example what training to failure feels like. I did back and biceps tonight and both are sooo toasted that I couldn't lift the towel over my head to dry my hair after my shower. The last time I trained triceps, I had to use both arms to push the garage door closed. Kind of embarrassing for a 330 lb guy.
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Oct-15-02, 09:43
Cyprinodon Cyprinodon is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 163
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 104/108/104 Female 5' 3"
BF:22%/17%/14%
Progress: 200%
Location: Waxahachie, TX
Default

I've wiped out my arms before to where I couldn't do anything with them and I've wiped out my arms and legs so that they were shaking and felt like jello but I did it with high volume/moderate weight (3 sets 10-15 reps pyramiding the weight up; 2 to 3 exercises per body part). I didn't get to the jello stage yesterday with any of the exercises I did so I guess I still haven't done HIT 100%. I am sore today all over which is the good news.
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Oct-24-02, 10:16
papalmer papalmer is offline
New Member
Posts: 3
 
Plan: Somersizing and Atkins
Stats: 130/130/120
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: North Carolina
Default thank you

Just to let both Shark01 and Cyprinodon know, I have very much appreciated, as well as benefited from, reading both of your posts. I had no idea what HIT was, am overwhelmed when I start doing weights, am slim but have flabby legs (I can appreciate you, Cyprinodon!) and just didn't know where to start.

I started doing a modified Atkins about 3 weeks ago, mainly just to take off a few extra pounds. I am amazed at how much more energy I have and how much less "fuzzy" I am. The next step is weight training.

So, thank you both for sharing such insightful, helpful information! I really appreciate your willingness to share such good stuff with someone new to all this.

Patti in North Carolina
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Oct-24-02, 14:23
Cyprinodon Cyprinodon is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 163
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 104/108/104 Female 5' 3"
BF:22%/17%/14%
Progress: 200%
Location: Waxahachie, TX
Default Hi Patti

Looks like we have similar goals and have started at a similar place. I actually started low carbing because I was sick and tired of being sick and tired, sleeping extra, and having episodes of hypoglycemia down as low as 50 mg/dl . After reading Atkins, I decided that I could also drop my body fat percentage and get strong. I use the body fat calculator at The Zone site. Seems that every BF-calculating method will give a different result so just pick your favorite and stick with it so that you can track changes over time. I liked the Zone calculator because 21% seemed to match what the mirror said. Prior to low carbing, I had exercised off and on since 1985 and had been consistently exercising (running, The Firm videos, kickbox videos, step bench videos) for two years. When I first started Atkins, I didn't pay attention to anything but carbs. I dropped from around 21% to just below 20% while having a great time eating bacon and cheese and mayo, stuff I hadn't eaten for years, and while being overwhelmed at the increase in energy and the ability to feel well instead of sleepy and mildly depressed . I stalled at just below 20% and stayed there for awhile until many of the wonderful people using this forum lead me to fitday.com. Once I started tracking my calories and making sure calories in were always slightly less than calories out, I dropped to 19.2% body fat fairly quickly. The calorie deficit wasn't much, ranging from -7 to -200, and I exercised once or twice daily for 30 to 45 minutes each session. When I moved my primary weight training from home video training to intense training in the gym, I dropped from 19.2% to 18.9% very quickly. Carb control, calorie counting on fitday, formal exercise, increased energy and thus increased normal activity through the day, and heavy weight training have already done wonders for me. I think I probably need to cut back on some of my cardio but that bothers me emotionally. I have been doing Exercise Streaks: my first was a 30-day Streak, my second was a 50-day Streak, and now I'm going for a 100-day Streak. I plan to do a 1000-day Streak someday. I keep telling myself to include Yoga and Stretching in the Streak so that I get rest days but then I blow that advice off and go running (pig headed me ).

People in your life will get on your case about two things: low carbing and trying to drop some body fat. Tell them what I do: "I can't eat that, it will make me feel bad. Also, I am at risk of developing Type 2 diabetes so I want to avoid that." People in your life will tell you that you are already too thin so you shouldn't be exercising (DUH ). Tell them that you need to do cardio for your overall health and you need to do weight training to strengthen your bones, to be able to carry the groceries without hating it, etc. This truth steers them away from their thoughts that you are too thin. Don't bother to tell them anything like "I don't have the DNA to look great at 20 something percent body fat or else I'd make the cover of the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue." or "I just don't want my legs to squash out into a blob when I sit down." In other words, don't give these people any fuel by refering to any motivation related to your looks.

Don't expect for your results to come as quickly as results have come for many of the people on this forum. You are at a healthy weight for your height so dropping that body fat percentage will probably be slower than you'd like. I suggest you consider a pound of fat a month a good rate for you; this is what I do. Increase in strength can come a lot faster than visible fat loss and you can even start to see definition in your upper body fairly quickly - - this is highly motivating.

If you haven't read any of the journals or gym logs yet, check them out. The people here are fantastic at figuring out what works for them and at sticking to their plans and achieving their goals. They are also very supportive and can provide you with a lot of motivation. The bad news is that there are too many journals and gym logs for you to read them all in your available time so you just have to pick a few and follow the stories in them. Who knows - - - you may decide to start one yourself.

The biggest motivation I have to low carb is how well it makes me feel compared to how bad I feel when I eat too many carbs. The biggest motivation I get from this forum and its members is to stick to my eating and exercise plan because that is what the members here do. Their good attitudes give me something to model myself after.
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