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  #1   ^
Old Mon, Jun-18-18, 08:42
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
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Default Teeth Health and the LCHF Lifestyle

Searching for papers is not my forte. WOuld anyone be willing to search for pertinent papers or even lectures by Phinney etc relative to teeth and gum health???

I would like to beleive good foods make for better dental health---but would like more solid evidence than one persons ecperience.

Thank you.
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Jun-18-18, 08:54
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cotonpal cotonpal is offline
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Plan: very low carb real food
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  #3   ^
Old Mon, Jun-18-18, 10:28
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal



OMG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We can correct many health issues with changing our diet but we cannot fix our teeth... crooked teeth are a NEW occurance!!!!!!

Our medical system is killing us.
Our government food programs are killing us!!!!!
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  #4   ^
Old Mon, Jun-18-18, 10:43
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
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From the above interview with Dr Lin DDS

must have clear airway-----breathing thru nose is a MUST

Nutrition and physical degeneration by dr wes ne crass ???publish 1939; well documented affects of modern SAD diet on teeth, etc.
no decay, or very little, no chronic problems before obesity, before diabetes, thought is was caused by food. By 3 mon pregnancy building a skeletal body.

processed vegetable oils
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  #5   ^
Old Mon, Jun-18-18, 10:47
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
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:The Dental Diet: The Surprising Link between Your Teeth, Real Food, and Life-Changing Natural Health by Steven Lin DDS
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  #6   ^
Old Mon, Jun-18-18, 10:52
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, Jun-18-18, 11:42
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Kristine Kristine is offline
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Plan: Primal/P:E
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Another good resource, though I haven't gone digging for studies: The Weston Price Foundation site.

Quote:
In the early 1930s, a Cleveland dentist named Weston A. Price (1870-1948) began a series of unique investigations.

For over ten years, he traveled to isolated parts of the globe to study the health of populations untouched by western civilization. His goal was to discover the factors responsible for good dental health. His studies revealed that dental caries and deformed dental arches resulting in crowded, crooked teeth are the result of nutritional deficiencies, not inherited genetic defects.
I'm fascinated by the difference between just a generation or two in indigenous people after they adopt a Western diet. The photos are amazing.
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Jun-18-18, 12:11
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
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HE wrote the book Nutrition and physical degeneration that was publlished back in 1939. Dr Weston Price. Dr Lin said his name but it did not come across clearly.

WHEN will have enough people to jump in front of this bus.

Time to sue the fed governement and the doctors and the dentists that have perpetuated this farse. Unfortunately, that would be, what 97% of them!!

I have one dentist in the family and another off to school in the fall. TIme to hand them a book.

Most of their time is spent pulling teeth!!
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  #9   ^
Old Mon, Jun-18-18, 12:13
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 19,218
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
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Dietary Guidelines
Eat whole, unprocessed foods.
Eat beef, lamb, game, organ meats, poultry and eggs from pasture-fed animals.
Eat wild fish (not farm-raised), fish eggs and shellfish from unpolluted waters.
Eat full-fat milk products from pasture-fed cows, preferably raw and/or fermented, such as raw milk, whole yogurt, kefir, cultured butter, full-fat raw cheeses and fresh and sour cream.
Use animal fats, such as lard, tallow, egg yolks, cream and butter liberally.
Use only traditional vegetable oils—extra virgin olive oil, expeller-expressed sesame oil, small amounts of expeller-expressed flax oil, and the tropical oils—coconut oil, palm oil and palm kernel oil.
Take cod liver oil regularly to provide at least 10,000 IU vitamin A and 1,000 IU vitamin D per day.
Eat fresh fruits and vegetables, preferably organic. Use vegetables in salads and soups, or lightly steamed with butter.
Use organic whole grains, legumes and nuts that have been prepared by soaking, sprouting or sour leavening to neutralize phytic acid, enzyme inhibitors and other anti-nutrients.
Include enzyme-rich lacto-fermented vegetables, fruits, beverages and condiments in your diet on a regular basis.
Prepare homemade stocks from the bones of pastured poultry, beef, pork and lamb fed non-GMO feed, and from wild seafood. Use liberally in soups, stews, gravies and sauces.
Use filtered water for cooking and drinking.
Use unrefined salt and a variety of herbs and spices for food interest and appetite stimulation.
Make your own salad dressing using raw vinegar, extra virgin olive oil and a small amount of expeller-expressed flax oil.
Use traditional sweeteners in moderation, such as raw honey, maple syrup, maple sugar, date sugar, dehydrated cane sugar juice (sold as Rapadura) and green stevia powder.
Use only unpasteurized wine or beer in strict moderation with meals.
Cook only in stainless steel, cast iron, glass or good quality enamel.
Use only natural, food-based supplements.
Get plenty of sleep, exercise and natural light.
Think positive thoughts and practice forgiveness.

Dietary Dangers
Do not eat commercially processed foods such as cookies, cakes, crackers, TV dinners, soft drinks, packaged sauce mixes, etc. Read labels!
Avoid all refined sweeteners such as sugar, dextrose, glucose, high fructose corn syrup and fruit juices.
Avoid white flour, white flour products and white rice.
Avoid all hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated fats and oils.
Avoid all industrial polyunsaturated vegetable oils made from soy, corn, safflower, canola or cottonseed.
Avoid foods cooked or fried in polyunsaturated oils or partially hydrogenated vegetable oils.
Do not practice veganism. Animal products provide vital nutrients not found in plant foods.
Avoid products containing protein powders as they usually contain carcinogens or damaged proteins formed during processing. Likewise, avoid lean meat, skinless poultry, reduced-fat milk and egg whites without the yolks. Consumption of protein without the cofactors occurring in animal fats can lead to deficiencies, especially of vitamin A.
Avoid processed, pasteurized milk; do not consume ultrapasteurized milk products, lowfat milk, skim milk, powdered milk or imitation milk products.
Avoid factory-farmed eggs, meats and fish.
Avoid highly processed lunch meats and sausage.
Avoid rancid and improperly prepared seeds, nuts and grains found in granolas, quick rise breads and extruded breakfast cereals, as they block mineral absorption and cause intestinal distress.
Avoid canned, sprayed, waxed and irradiated fruits and vegetables. Avoid genetically modified foods (found in most soy, canola and corn products).
Avoid artificial food additives, especially MSG, hydrolyzed vegetable protein and aspartame, which are neurotoxins. Most soups, sauce and broth mixes and most commercial condiments contain MSG, even if not indicated on the label.
Avoid caffeine and related substances in coffee, tea and chocolate.
Avoid aluminum-containing foods such as commercial salt, baking powder and antacids. Do not use aluminum cookware or deodorants containing aluminum.
Do not drink fluoridated water.
Avoid synthetic vitamins and foods containing them.
Avoid distilled liquors.
Do not use a microwave oven.
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, Jun-19-18, 04:30
M Levac M Levac is offline
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Plan: VLC, mostly meat
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Link to full Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston Price: http://journeytoforever.org/farm_li...e/pricetoc.html

For our purpose, it's the Inuits that give us the most pertinent element. Even though some of them have worn down their teeth right down to the gums, there's no indication of dental caries or exposure of the nerves or pain and such. This means for us who eat little or no carbs like wheat and sugar, our teeth should be maintained in the same way as the Inuits' teeth were maintained and even repaired to some degree.

Bear in mind this is pretty much the same thing as any other observational study - it can't show causality. However, in my opinion, it's a very special study. It compares (several pairs in different countries) two groups of same genetic stock, each eating very different diets, but most groups eating a modern diet eats the same modern diet (i.e. wheat and sugar). Also, it compares adults who adopted the modern diet, and their children who eat the same diet. So, for example, the adults also suffer but don't show the typical skeletal and dental deformities as their children do. In the case of their children, we're likely dealing with epigenetics, we'd have to look at Pottenger's work with cats (book: Pottenger's Cats: A Study In Nutrition). Anyways, the most in-your-face aspect of it is that none of these people used a tooth brush or tooth paste or any special dental hygiene, yet the groups who ate their traditional diet had near-perfect teeth (1 dental caries in about 2,000 teeth). Compare that to us, with tooth brushes, tooth paste, mouth wash, tongue scrapers and all kinds of other special stuff, we all got dental caries, nobody is immune. In Price's time, dental caries was a true epidemic, even he suffered from it.

For our purpose, epigenetics can't be fixed for us as adults, but it certainly gives us ample clue what to do with our kids.

I remember one experiment with wheat and dental caries, but I don't have a link and I forgot the name of that experiment. I think we discussed it here, not sure. Anyways, they found that wheat had a detrimental effect on the ability to repair tooth and surface damage. So basically the idea is that saliva contains stuff that repairs teeth, and wheat somehow changes that. Maybe it's got something to do with phytic acid contained in bran or maybe it's in wheat flour even if it doesn't have any bran, dunno. Phytic acid can bind to minerals like calcium, so if that's true then those minerals wouldn't be available for tooth repair. Makes sense to me. Doesn't matter if it's true or not, if we already quit wheat.
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Jun-19-18, 05:42
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 19,218
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
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Im very curious if my sons 3 cavities can be repaired naturally.

Im trying to convince him that its worth giving up grains for a while, and even thinking K2 sources might be beneficial, like gouda cheese.
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, Jun-19-18, 05:43
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 19,218
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
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Looking for information on how to re -innoculated the mouth with proper microbes, if we even know what those are.
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  #13   ^
Old Tue, Jun-19-18, 07:13
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
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https://www.sciencenewsforstudents....s-teeth-healthy

Until a12 is available, maybe swishing with hydrogen peroxide and brushing with baking soda has merit.....
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  #14   ^
Old Tue, Jun-19-18, 07:22
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 19,218
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
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WIth my limited sluething I found this----by Dr lin, of course.

https://www.drstevenlin.com/good-ba...outh-gut-flora/

5 Tips to Keep Your Oral Flora and Good Mouth Bacteria in Balance
How can we ensure our oral microbiota is healthy and well-balanced?

Quote:
Add more fiber to your diet, including prebiotic
Eat probiotic fermented foods.
Brush and floss your teeth daily.
If your gums bleed, book a dental appointment right away.
Take an oral probiotic.
Do you suffer from allergies, digestive problems or other inflammatory conditions alongside bleeding gums? See a gut health specialist. It’s time to investigate your gut health.



Interesting that my GP is sending me to a ear , nose, and throat specialist.

Do gut specialists even exist??
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Jun-19-18, 17:39
M Levac M Levac is offline
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Posts: 6,498
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Gut specialists are called specialists of internal medicine. I consulted one of those once, I walked out. In my world, specialist does not equate expert.

Let me introduce another idea about teeth health. Fat-soluble vitamins like A, D, E, K. Of the four in terms of quantity and based on my personal experience, vitamin A is the one we need most of and the one where a deficiency has the widest effects.

The fiber advice for teeth health, it's quite very really really wrong, in my opinion. Remember what I said about bran and phytic acid? Well, bran is fiber. In a sort of twisted logic, we could literally come to believe that wheat is good for teeth health. If fiber is good, and if wheat contains bran, and if bran is fiber, and if bran contains phytic acid, therefore phytic acid is good for teeth health. See? Even worse, we could do this with processed foods. If fiber is good, and if fiber is a product or by-product of food processing, then processed foods is good for teeth health.

Then there's the veggie argument of fiber. If fiber is good, and if veggies contain lots of fiber, and it we have to chew for eons before we swallow, and if doing this increases teeth wear, then increased teeth wear is good for teeth health. See? The level of ridiculouslessness is limiteless. Try it for yourself, see if any advice actually sounds sane.

Now for advice derived directly from Price's observation. If traditional populations have zero dental hygiene, and if traditional populations have near-perfect teeth, thenfore zero dental hygiene is good for teeth health. Sound crazy but it's perfectly logical. Still too crazy? Check all other species that have teeth. In every single case, none of them have any sort of dental hygiene to speak of (tooth brush, tooth paste, mouth wash? ROTFL!), therefore they all serve as precedent to confirm the crazy, but logical, logic.

Furthermore, in Price's era, dental caries was a true epidemic. If we believe in dental hygiene as a preventive or even therapy for dental caries, we logically deduce that nobody had any kind of dental hygiene in Price's era. Yes? In fact, nobody had any dental hygiene during Price's era, but we know from his observation of traditional populations that zero dental hygiene does not in and of itself lead to dental caries. Therefore, in Price's era, something else must have had an enormous effect on dental caries, strong enough to overwhelm an otherwise natural tendency to keep our teeth in near-perfect health.

As a result of this dental caries epidemic, we're smart, we figured out all kinds of therapies to treat it, including a tooth brush, tooth paste, mouth wash, tongue scrapers, and yada yada. The fact is, all of this is medical in nature, not something we should be doing every day 3x per day. I mean, is that the kind of medicine we do today, every day 3x per day? That's quite absurd. Even that degree of medicalization hasn't done much to prevent or treat dental caries. Dental caries is the standard level of life in this era. And every day 3x per day is the standard level of medicalization of teeth health.

But then, eating a lot of the most highly processed "foods" - wheat, sugar, soy, corn, you-name-it - is also the standard level of nutrition in this era. Ima take a shot in the dark here and agree with Price when he said modern diet displaces a traditional diet and that's why we got dental caries and all the other bad stuff like skeletal deformation and stuff.

I'm sorry, I didn't give any specific answer. I think I just illustrated a point of view with which we can figure out some answers to some specific questions as they crop up.
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