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  #1   ^
Old Mon, Apr-17-17, 09:46
glimmergai's Avatar
glimmergai glimmergai is offline
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Posts: 188
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 200/143/130 Female 67 inches
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Question Dr. Fred Pescatore Claims Amino Acids Key to Faster LC Weight Loss

An article in "Woman's World" details the claim of Dr. Fred Pescatore, Author of the A-list diet claiming that the key to the fastest Low Carb weight loss is taking BCAA Amino Acid chain supplements.

He claims that he worked with Dr. Atkins and he is (of course) selling his own diet plan called the A List Diet and he is (of course) in the business of selling supplements as well.

His claim is that we rarely diversify our our protein forms enough to get in all of the required amino acids to supercharge our metabolism.

I was wondering if there is any "meat" to this story (pardon the pun) and if anyone had added amino acid supplements and enjoyed success or any benefits therein.
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Apr-17-17, 10:02
classykare classykare is offline
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Posts: 47
 
Plan: Atkin
Stats: 315/304/160 Female 5 ft 2 inches
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Progress: 7%
Location: Florida
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I am interested in this also.
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  #3   ^
Old Mon, Apr-17-17, 11:21
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
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Posts: 7,422
 
Plan: P:E=>1 (Q3-22)
Stats: 168/100/82 Male 182cm
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Progress: 79%
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I don't know if there's any "meat" to it but I don't like the thought of supercharging my metabolism. I humming bird has a fast, supercharged metabolism. They live for about 4 years.
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  #4   ^
Old Mon, Apr-17-17, 11:31
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,440
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Just Eat Real Food
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  #5   ^
Old Mon, Apr-17-17, 14:07
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cotonpal cotonpal is offline
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Posts: 5,313
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Just Eat Real Food


Works for me, no magic metabolism boosting supplement needed just low carb real food.

Jean
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  #6   ^
Old Mon, Apr-17-17, 15:34
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is online now
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Posts: 4,044
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Why make things that work more complicated simply to get that 0.5% improvement?
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, Apr-17-17, 15:35
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Last time I tried to supercharge my metabolism with amino acids, I had a manic episode.
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Apr-17-17, 18:00
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
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Progress: 129%
Location: USA
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Well, I am taking niacin, which is an amino acid and it does nice things for my mood and energy.

And I also put dry gelatin in my hot tea, which is a complete protein, and my arthritis is much better when I keep that up.

Don't know what else might be missing
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  #9   ^
Old Mon, Apr-17-17, 22:37
Zei Zei is offline
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Posts: 1,596
 
Plan: Carb reduction in general
Stats: 230/185/180 Female 5 ft 9 in
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Progress: 90%
Location: Texas
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I've read that BCAA's, especially the branched chain amino acid leucine, stimulate insulin release, maybe even as much as some carbohydrates (?) and will also upregulate mTor, which may or may not be desired depending upon one's goals. May be great for muscle building, particularly in combination with strength training, but high insulin levels plus mTor in high gear, that doesn't sound to me like a time the body's going to be losing fat. Wouldn't the high insulin signal fat storage rather than fat burning until that insulin level drops back down? I've been trying lately getting all my daily protein in a short window of time to kick up mTor and insulin for some hopeful muscle building or at least maintenance (middle-aged, wanting to avoid muscle-wasting sarcopenia), then keep insulin low the rest of the time hoping to burn fat. If it is possible to consume more BCAA's/protein over a wider time per day and still lose fat I'd like to know more about it because I'd prefer to be able to eat protein at other meals such as breakfast because it's more satiating.
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  #10   ^
Old Mon, Apr-17-17, 22:47
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Rosebud Rosebud is offline
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Posts: 23,882
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 235/135/135 Female 5'4
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Sigh. What Janet said.
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Apr-18-17, 02:50
M Levac M Levac is offline
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Posts: 6,498
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Key to low-carb = LOW-carb.

Supercharge metabolism? Why, to get the OUT in calories-in/calories-out? LOW-carb does this as best as can be done already, and it does it directly at the source - fat tissue. As this happens, metabolism elsewhere has no choice but to go up, it has to spend the flux of fatty acids and ketones and glycerol that's just pouring out.

Protein diversity? How does that work when protein is protein is protein? Maybe there's exotic protein that can't be found anywhere else but in plastic bottles? All protein is made from the same 20 amino acids, there's no special advantage to diversify the protein source, unless the new protein source is actually complete (or moreso) compared to the current protein source, i.e. we're fixing a deficiency. Incidentally, if we add BCAA's, we're not adding a complete protein, so it's possible to create a deficiency like that, but maybe we'd have to overdo it to achieve that, nevertheless it's a possibility.

I've heard about BCAA's before, always in the context of some performance enhancement of some kind. So I have to wonder how that's possible if we eat real food full of complete protein and all kinds of other goodies that literally make supplements null. Maybe the improvements are only possible if there's a deficiency, if there's a deficient diet, if the diet is full of carbs or something? Well, if we go low-carb, we fix a bunch of those problems, what more can BCAA's do at this point? OK, maybe during the transition at the beginning, but that's about all I can see.

No, if there is a supplement that is more likely to do anything, it's fat-solubles (A,D,E,K) and fat itself. The idea is that when we go low-carb, we come from low-fat, this means we're likely deficient in fat-solubles, probably for years at this point. Myself, I have seen a tremendous effect from a vitamin A protocol I devised. Many others see benefit with vitamin D. Supplementing with fat also has its own benefit, as observed for example by the late Seth Roberts and his intellect experiments.

Finally, if we're doing low-carb properly, and there's still something else going on (i.e. low-carb doesn't work as it should), BCAA's won't do a damn thing cuz at this point, it's a genuine medical problem that needs to be addressed appropriately.

And yeah, real food is it.
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, Apr-18-17, 04:29
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27843095

Quote:
Branched Chain Amino Acids Cause Liver Injury in Obese/Diabetic Mice by Promoting Adipocyte Lipolysis and Inhibiting Hepatic Autophagy.

Zhang F1, Zhao S1, Yan W1, Xia Y1, Chen X2, Wang W1, Zhang J1, Gao C1, Peng C1, Yan F1, Zhao H1, Lian K1, Lee Y1, Zhang L1, Lau WB3, Ma X3, Tao L4.
Author information
Abstract
The Western meat-rich diet is both high in protein and fat. Although the hazardous effect of a high fat diet (HFD) upon liver structure and function is well recognized, whether the co-presence of high protein intake contributes to, or protects against, HF-induced hepatic injury remains unclear. Increased intake of branched chain amino acids (BCAA, essential amino acids compromising 20% of total protein intake) reduces body weight. However, elevated circulating BCAA is associated with non-alcoholic fatty liver disease and injury. The mechanisms responsible for this quandary remain unknown; the role of BCAA in HF-induced liver injury is unclear. Utilizing HFD or HFD+BCAA models, we demonstrated BCAA supplementation attenuated HFD-induced weight gain, decreased fat mass, activated mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR), inhibited hepatic lipogenic enzymes, and reduced hepatic triglyceride content. However, BCAA caused significant hepatic damage in HFD mice, evidenced by exacerbated hepatic oxidative stress, increased hepatic apoptosis, and elevated circulation hepatic enzymes. Compared to solely HFD-fed animals, plasma levels of free fatty acids (FFA) in the HFD+BCAA group are significantly further increased, due largely to AMPKα2-mediated adipocyte lipolysis. Lipolysis inhibition normalized plasma FFA levels, and improved insulin sensitivity. Surprisingly, blocking lipolysis failed to abolish BCAA-induced liver injury. Mechanistically, hepatic mTOR activation by BCAA inhibited lipid-induced hepatic autophagy, increased hepatic apoptosis, blocked hepatic FFA/triglyceride conversion, and increased hepatocyte susceptibility to FFA-mediated lipotoxicity. These data demonstrated that BCAA reduces HFD-induced body weight, at the expense of abnormal lipolysis and hyperlipidemia, causing hepatic lipotoxicity. Furthermore, BCAA directly exacerbate hepatic lipotoxicity by reducing lipogenesis and inhibiting autophagy in the hepatocyte.


Okay, so in mice at least, maybe branched chain amino acids "supercharge" the metabolism. Increased lipolysis, they're surprised when blocking lipolysis fails to completely reverse this, the explanation given is that inhibiting autophagy is damaging. Paranoid bodybuilders taking leucine to avoid catabolism during fasting or exercise come to mind. Maybe it increases lean mass, is it good for you?

The increased lipolysis--one way that might work, there's a fatty liver model in rodents where deficiency of methionine results in increased lipolysis. In some models, this leads to fatty liver, in others methionine restriction leads to increased lifespan. In the increased lifespan studies, energy fraction from mitochondrial respiration does increase, that fits with increased fatty acid oxidation. Maybe it comes down to other components in the diet, like choline. Or age of diet initiation, methionine restriction in young animals makes them fatter instead of leaner.

Restricting methionine would increase the ratio of branch chained amino acids to methionine in the diet, obviously supplementing BCAA's to a balanced protein diet would have the same effect on that ratio. You could see leucine at least transiently reducing methionine availability in fat tissue due to the increase in protein synthesis in lean tissue.
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  #13   ^
Old Tue, Apr-18-17, 09:37
glimmergai's Avatar
glimmergai glimmergai is offline
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Posts: 188
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 200/143/130 Female 67 inches
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Thank you all so much for your input. I love the scientific discussion this evokes and i personally don't think "just eat real food' is a response that is appropriate for this particular discussion. The real question here is " Is there any accuracy to the statement that most low carbers are deficient in branched amino acid chains and is this the cause of the "stall" that so many of us have complained about the scale having even though we are "eating real food."

I consider myself to be a typical American low carb mom- that is to say that my protein rotation is beef, pork, poultry and seafood. I say "American" only to say that many other cultures are more embracing of organ meats than most American suburban types.

I realize many of you may think me to be culinarily unaware but I can't touch organ meats and really have no desire to eat Venison (Bambi.)

I also wanted to bring to light that this study is published in Woman's World which means that thousands of people a day will see this impulse buy in their local grocers checkout line; boasting "rapid fat loss with Atkins" - While it is promoting an Atkins lifestyle, it may also be harming the Atkins name if what Dr. Pescatore is proposing is harmful to the human body.

It is a good discussion amongst us nonetheless!
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  #14   ^
Old Tue, Apr-18-17, 10:00
comanchesu comanchesu is offline
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Posts: 161
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 182/175/155 Female 65 inches
BF:
Progress:
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[QUOTE=glimmergai]An article in "Woman's World" details the claim of Dr. Fred Pescatore, Author of the A-list diet claiming that the key to the fastest Low Carb weight loss is taking BCAA Amino Acid chain supplements...


womans world is entertaining, but not really reliable. I remember a story they did on Barry Sears weight loss cookies-he wouldn't give up the recipe so they made one up (and were sued). If you're curious, try google.scholar as a search engine and see if you can verify the facts in the article.
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Apr-18-17, 10:14
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
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Posts: 7,422
 
Plan: P:E=>1 (Q3-22)
Stats: 168/100/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 79%
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By "American" you mean United States of America American? There are many Americans - most to the north or south

I doubt what Dr. Pescatore is proposing is harmful, probably just not that beneficial, except perhaps to his bank account.

Full of winks today
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