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  #166   ^
Old Tue, Sep-27-16, 07:16
mccoy_3000's Avatar
mccoy_3000 mccoy_3000 is offline
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Posts: 88
 
Plan: moderately LC, HF, LP
Stats: 149/143/143 Male 170
BF:
Progress: 100%
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These are my actual amounts (average) versus targeted amount of proteins, leucine and methionine in the last week (all in grams).

Proteins: target= 50 actual= 69
Methionine: target= 1.0 actual= 1.6
Leucine: target= 2.2 actual= 5.8


BAD NEWS!!! I've been way off target, in significant excess of the WHO modal needs.

Now, I'm a vegetarian but I eat yogurt, eggs and cheese. I don't eat inordinate amounts but evidently It's very easy to ingest many proteins.
My leucine intake in particular, which triggers the mTOR sensor, is over twice the estimated modal need of the population.
Methionin, which triggers the IGF-1 sensor, is 60% in excess (maybe more, since I didn't calculate cysteine).

Bottom line, my mTOR and IGF-1 sensors are probably activated now, which means I'm not in the repair & manteinance mode as I would wish.

Need to revise my dietary strategy again.
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  #167   ^
Old Tue, Sep-27-16, 11:41
Sagehill Sagehill is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,561
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 250/161.4/130 Female 5'3"
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Central FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccoy_3000
Now I think that, if we want to go a step further in our quest for longevity and healthspan, the conditions to be respected would be two:
1= Do not go significantly over the individual minimum protein requirement
2= Do not go significantly over the individual minimum methionin and leucin requirement
Point 2 would ensure that we do not inadvertently activate the mTOR or the IGF-1 masterswitches, blissfully ignoring that overall proteins may be moderate in our diet but one of the key amino acids may be high.

I tried that out with the online calculator:

http://www.globalrph.com/aminoacid-rda.cgi

Thank you for that site, mccoy... it's fascinating!

Just want to point out the link to the original calculator, so anyone can find their own requirements: http://www.globalrph.com/aminoacid-rda.htm

While this link determines how much protein, by two standards, anyone needs: http://www.globalrph.com/protein-calculator.htm


Quote:
Originally Posted by mccoy
Proteins: target= 50 actual= 69
Methionine: target= 1.0 actual= 1.6
Leucine: target= 2.2 actual= 5.8
Did you calculate your methionine/leucine amounts the hard way by entering each food in and calculating by hand, or is there some program I don't know about, like an advanced FitDay?
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  #168   ^
Old Tue, Sep-27-16, 12:54
mccoy_3000's Avatar
mccoy_3000 mccoy_3000 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 88
 
Plan: moderately LC, HF, LP
Stats: 149/143/143 Male 170
BF:
Progress: 100%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagehill

Did you calculate your methionine/leucine amounts the hard way by entering each food in and calculating by hand, or is there some program I don't know about, like an advanced FitDay?


Sagehill, I did it the hard way, writing my own spreadsheets, which however have the advantage that once i list my common foods and relative proteins, leucine and methionine quantities, I only have to change my daily intake to get the totals. I drew the data from an Italian site with a convenient format to draw upon, but I believe there are likewise convenient lists in the English language.

There might be some online calculator though.
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  #169   ^
Old Tue, Sep-27-16, 16:09
inflammabl's Avatar
inflammabl inflammabl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,371
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 296/220/205 Male 71 inches
BF:25%?
Progress: 84%
Location: Upstate SC
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Yep. 1-1/2 cups of beans and you're at 60g of protein. The equivalent LC meal would be ten scrambled eggs!
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  #170   ^
Old Tue, Sep-27-16, 21:49
Bintang's Avatar
Bintang Bintang is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 258
 
Plan: MyOwn:CHO<90g/d
Stats: 207/149/150 Male 169 cm
BF:40%/17%/18%
Progress: 102%
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inflammabl
Yep. 1-1/2 cups of beans and you're at 60g of protein. The equivalent LC meal would be ten scrambled eggs!
Not exactly equivalent.
The scrambled eggs don't produce quite as much tooting.
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  #171   ^
Old Thu, Sep-29-16, 14:25
mccoy_3000's Avatar
mccoy_3000 mccoy_3000 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 88
 
Plan: moderately LC, HF, LP
Stats: 149/143/143 Male 170
BF:
Progress: 100%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inflammabl
Yep. 1-1/2 cups of beans and you're at 60g of protein. The equivalent LC meal would be ten scrambled eggs!


Are you sure about the values? In my tables canned beans, without water, are 6.7 grams of proteins per 100 grams. 1.5 cups = about 250 grams, hence no more than 20 grams of proteins, the same as 3 large eggs.

Dried beans are 20 grams of proteins per 100 grams, so 1.5 cups = about 50 grams of proteins, but such an amount would bloat me to death, I'd not be concerned about tooting rather about hospitalization.

I just cannot digest legumes, although being a vegetarian. Two tablespoons would be the safe threshold for me.
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  #172   ^
Old Thu, Sep-29-16, 14:31
mccoy_3000's Avatar
mccoy_3000 mccoy_3000 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 88
 
Plan: moderately LC, HF, LP
Stats: 149/143/143 Male 170
BF:
Progress: 100%
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I just realized how hard it is to stay below the Leucine RDA, let alone the Leucine estimated modal amount. Leucine is found in relatively large amounts almost everywere, barred fruits and possibly vegetables.
Even fruitarians who eat 250 grams of almonds and hazelnuts per day would go beyond the RDA value for Leucine.

Bottom line, probably mTOR is activated by really large amounts of leucine, even a 30% caloric restriction in an average diet would not be enough to keep leucine at its minimum requirement.
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  #173   ^
Old Thu, Sep-29-16, 14:44
mccoy_3000's Avatar
mccoy_3000 mccoy_3000 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 88
 
Plan: moderately LC, HF, LP
Stats: 149/143/143 Male 170
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagehill
Thank you for that site, mccoy... it's fascinating!

Just want to point out the link to the original calculator, so anyone can find their own requirements: http://www.globalrph.com/aminoacid-rda.htm
....:


By the way, I just discovered that the source of the numbers is the ponderous 1359 pages book of the National Academies Press. It is freely downloadable.
I know now how I'm going to spend the next Christmas Holidays!

https://www.nap.edu/catalog/10490/d...-macronutrients
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  #174   ^
Old Fri, Sep-30-16, 02:19
Bintang's Avatar
Bintang Bintang is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 258
 
Plan: MyOwn:CHO<90g/d
Stats: 207/149/150 Male 169 cm
BF:40%/17%/18%
Progress: 102%
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccoy_3000
I just realized how hard it is to stay below the Leucine RDA, let alone the Leucine estimated modal amount. Leucine is found in relatively large amounts almost everywere, barred fruits and possibly vegetables.
Even fruitarians who eat 250 grams of almonds and hazelnuts per day would go beyond the RDA value for Leucine.

Bottom line, probably mTOR is activated by really large amounts of leucine, even a 30% caloric restriction in an average diet would not be enough to keep leucine at its minimum requirement.
Which sort of implies that maybe there is no benefit in trying to do so. Maybe the RDA itself is impractical and wrong.
Besides, a low total protein target is already challenging enough.
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  #175   ^
Old Fri, Sep-30-16, 13:23
mccoy_3000's Avatar
mccoy_3000 mccoy_3000 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 88
 
Plan: moderately LC, HF, LP
Stats: 149/143/143 Male 170
BF:
Progress: 100%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bintang
Which sort of implies that maybe there is no benefit in trying to do so. Maybe the RDA itself is impractical and wrong.
Besides, a low total protein target is already challenging enough.


I agree, on that, leucine RDA just would seem to be underestimated or too impractical to respect, even though it may be source of some fun for the geeky ones like myself trying to juggle around to reach that value.

Anyway, Rosedale, Fung, Longo, do not propose to be so meticulous. They just suggest to moderate proteins, where 'moderate' goes from 0.6 to 0.8 grams/kg ideal weight/day. Also, moderation may be different for different people.
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  #176   ^
Old Fri, Sep-30-16, 18:42
inflammabl's Avatar
inflammabl inflammabl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,371
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 296/220/205 Male 71 inches
BF:25%?
Progress: 84%
Location: Upstate SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccoy_3000
Are you sure about the values?


It depends on the bean. Some beans are not really beans but more like peas. Google tells me this about read beans, https://www.google.com/search?q=pro...&oe=&gws_rd=ssl , 43g per cup.

I'm on travel right now but something did occur to me that I wanted to ask, is an Atkins discussion board the best place to ask about low protein requirements? I would imagine that most of us go over our protein requirements and have little experience with insufficient protein.
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  #177   ^
Old Mon, Oct-03-16, 12:36
mccoy_3000's Avatar
mccoy_3000 mccoy_3000 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 88
 
Plan: moderately LC, HF, LP
Stats: 149/143/143 Male 170
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagehill

Did you calculate your methionine/leucine amounts the hard way by entering each food in and calculating by hand, or is there some program I don't know about, like an advanced FitDay?


cronometer is an online program I just tried which carries values galore, including aminos

https://cronometer.com/
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  #178   ^
Old Mon, Oct-03-16, 12:39
mccoy_3000's Avatar
mccoy_3000 mccoy_3000 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 88
 
Plan: moderately LC, HF, LP
Stats: 149/143/143 Male 170
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by inflammabl
I'm on travel right now but something did occur to me that I wanted to ask, is an Atkins discussion board the best place to ask about low protein requirements? I would imagine that most of us go over our protein requirements and have little experience with insufficient protein.


Maybe so, but there are a couple of relevant points in favour of this discussion:

1) It has been asked by the OP: 'How much proteins should I be eating"?
2) Recent trends among the low-carber experts with credentials, suggest that fewer proteins than formerly believed are necessary or desirable, particularly Dr. Ron rosedale, Dr. Jason Fung.
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