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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Jun-07-02, 06:42
nikkiend nikkiend is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 163
 
Plan: Atkins/my own
Stats: 240/237/150 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 3%
Location: South Florida
Default Atkins Induction to PP

I have been having much trouble getting the PP diet down pat in my mind to start it, so after many weeks of frustration and procrastination, I decided to go on Atkins Induction for 2 - 3 weeks so I can be LC'ing while fine-tuning PP for myself.
I'd like to hear from anyone who has started the diet this way and then got on PP after finishing induction. I'm worried that I will gain weight when I start PP. Any advice and/or experiences would be appreciated.
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  #2   ^
Old Sat, Jun-08-02, 04:16
lossiebeth's Avatar
lossiebeth lossiebeth is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 142
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 235/186/135
BF:
Progress: 49%
Location: Lossiemouth, SCOTLAND
Default

WELL, I JUST RECENTLY (LIKE THE LAST WEEK) WENT FROM ATKINS TO PP MYSELF, AND HAVEN'T NOTICED ANY WEIGHT GAIN. IN FACT, I AM DOWN A POUND OR SO. I HAVE SYSTEMIC CANDIDA, WHICH STALLS WEIGHT LOSS, *AND* IT HAS JUST BEEN *THAT* TIME OF THE MONTH, SO TO GO DOWN AT ALL IS PRETTY IMPRESSIVE.

I DID ATKINS INDUCTION IN MARCH AND LOST 9 POUNDS, THEN STUCK, WENT UP AND DOWN AND UP AND DOWN, UP...

I DECIDED TO GIVE PP A TRY, AND, ONCE RUSTPOT HELPED GET ME THROUGH THE ROCKET SCIENCE, IT SEEMS TO SUIT ME. I LIKE KNOWINGTHE EXACT (MINIMUM) AMOUNT OF PROTEIN TO AIM FOR. IT IS ALSO A RELIEF TO BE TOLD THAT "SKINNY VEG" AREN'T AS SCARY AS ALL THAT, SO NOT TO BE SO WORRIED ABOUT HOW MUCH LETTUCE I EAT, ETC.

I AM NOT SURE IF THIS IS ANY HELP, BUT MY ADVICE IS TO GIVE IT A TRY, AND IF IT DOESN'T WORK, STICK WITH ATKINS. I LOVE DR. ATKINS, BUT FIND PROTEIN POWER THAT BIT EASIER ON ME.
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  #3   ^
Old Sat, Jun-08-02, 05:30
nikkiend nikkiend is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 163
 
Plan: Atkins/my own
Stats: 240/237/150 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 3%
Location: South Florida
Default

Thanks, Beth,
That makes me feel better. I did read all of your problems with trying to calculate everything. I had the same problem. I work with numbers for a living and I recalculated 10 different times and kept showing that I should weigh between 109-116. I'm 5'7" tall! Even on the primitive charts, I should be at 135. I am not brave enough to put my measurements out there to get someone's help , so I'm just following PPLP's chart and planning to get 40 gms. of protein per meal.
I'm still trying to figure out exactly what to eat on PP. It's so much harder than Atkins! Are you figuring it out ok since Rustpot helped you through the numbers?
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  #4   ^
Old Sun, Jun-09-02, 05:23
lossiebeth's Avatar
lossiebeth lossiebeth is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 142
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 235/186/135
BF:
Progress: 49%
Location: Lossiemouth, SCOTLAND
Wink I HATE NUMBERS

I CAN'T IMAGINE HOW YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SO THIN AT 5'7", SINCE I HAVE A GOAL OF 117-125 AT 5'3". THAT IS WEIRD.

YES, RUSTPOT THAT HE IS, DID MY NUMBERS FOR ME. I ACTUALLY HAD IT PRETTY NEAR RIGHT (THE SECOND TIME-THE FIRST TIME I FIGURED A GOAL WEIGHT OF 171-184 ), SO THAT WAS A SHOCK. IT WAS GOOD TO GET THE NUMBER CONFIRMED, THOUGH. I STILL CAN'T BELIEVE 125, WHEN I HAVE BEEN TOLD (EVEN AT SLIMMING CLUBS) THAT 140 WOULD BE ALRIGHT! STILL, WHO CARES, EITHER 125 OR 140 IS A *LONG* WAY FROM 195, SO I JUST NEED TO KEEP PLUGGING AWAY, THEN STOP WHEN *I* FEEL HAPPY.

MY PROTEIN IS LESS THAT I HAD FIGURED, AT 60 GRAMS A DAY INSTEAD OF THE 90 I THOUGHT, BUT I STILL AIM FOR HIGHER RATHER THAN LOWER.

THE THING IS, YOU AND I BOTH KNOW WE ARE NOT AT OUR GOAL WEIGHTS *NOW*, SO WHY FOCUS ON OUR ULTIMATE DESTINATION? ONCE YOU ARE AT A WEIGHT YOU FEEL HAPPIER ABOUT, *THEN* IS THE TIME TO ASK FOR HELP WITH THE FIGURING IF YOU STILL WANT TO. LUCKILY, I WAS JUST UNDER THE BIG 2-0-0 WHEN I DISCOVERED PP AND DECIDED TO ASK FOR HELP WTH THE FIGURING. THAT WAS A BIG HELP FOR ME. 200 IS QUITE A WATERSHED. ONCE I GOT UNDER THAT, I FELT I HAD HOPE.

JUST MY OPINION. HOPE IT HELPS.
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  #5   ^
Old Sun, Jun-09-02, 07:34
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 37,202
 
Plan: LC paleo/ancestral
Stats: 241/188/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Default

hi nikkiend,

Methinks 109 to 116 lbs might the calculation for your LEAN BODY MASS, not your total weight. Lean body mass (LBM) refers to the componenets of our body that aren't FAT, namely .... muscles, bones, organs. The reason it's important to have an idea of your LBM is so that you will know the minimum grams of PROTEIN you need to eat each day in order to maintain and nourish it

If your LBM is 109 - 116 lbs (and that sounds right if your basic bone structure is very slender) ... then you would calculate your total goal weight by adding the projected weight of body fat to that number. The Eades provide a chart of suggested BF% goals depending on gender and age; it's on page 83. Since I don't know your age, I'll just use 31 - 40 yrs female as an example -- which is 21 - 27%.

So, goal weight would range from 137.8 lbs (109 lbs LBM + 21% BF) to 158.9 lbs (116 lbs LBM + 27% BF)

If you're working out with weights/ resistance exercise, and eating lots of quality protein, you will likely increase your LBM over time, thus your goal weight may end up being higher. This is desirable ... muscles burn more fat at a higher rate, and take up less space than the same weight of fat. You might weigh more at the scales, but you'll be smaller and firmer.

Doreen
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  #6   ^
Old Sun, Jun-09-02, 08:07
nikkiend nikkiend is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 163
 
Plan: Atkins/my own
Stats: 240/237/150 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 3%
Location: South Florida
Default

Thanks, Doreen.
You may be right, but I worked with those darned numbers for well over an hour and kept coming up with the same thing. I think I'm trying to make PP alot more complicated than it is anyway, without worrying about all of that. I know where I'll feel comfortable and that's what my goal is. Maybe once I get down to a more manageable weight and I start losing some decent inches, like Beth suggested, maybe I won't be so embarassed to let someone try and help me. PPLP does have a chart for people like me who just can't seem to figure out the numbers and it says 40 gms. of protein per meal which is what I'll use for now.
As long as I'm losing weight and/or inches, I'll be happy.
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  #7   ^
Old Sun, Jun-09-02, 09:44
Karen's Avatar
Karen Karen is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 12,775
 
Plan: Ketogenic
Stats: -/-/- Female 5 feet 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Vancouver
Default

What worked for me - I did all the calculations and almost fainted when I discovered that my BF was 50% - was just to concentrate on getting adequate protein and keeping my carbs at 30 grams a day.

What may help you out is making a photocopy of your Protein Equivalency Chart and keeping it on the fridge. Also, the advice in this post: For Newbies - Carb Counting and Label Reading can get off on the right foot.

Karen
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  #8   ^
Old Sun, Jun-09-02, 11:14
nikkiend nikkiend is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 163
 
Plan: Atkins/my own
Stats: 240/237/150 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 3%
Location: South Florida
Default

Thanks, Karen. I'll check out the post you suggested and make a copy of the chart to put on my fridge.
I think I will do fine as long as I keep my carbs low and keep my protein up. I'm doing better about reading the books. I can't bring myself to sit and actually read them cover to cover, but I am taking time and reading pertinent parts of them and I'm learning alot. By the time I do my switch from Atkins to PP, I should know what I'm doing...(I hope!)
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Jun-11-02, 04:11
rustpot's Avatar
rustpot rustpot is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,110
 
Plan: atkins/protein power 1st
Stats: 269/278/210 Male 5 feet 10 ins.
BF:33%/30%/ ?
Progress: -15%
Location: Hertfordshire
Default Atkins to PP to Rustpot

Believe me you will go from Atkins to PP to Nikkiend.

In reality what you eat on Atkins and PP are the same range of good foods. It is all a matter of emphasis. One is neither better of worse than the other. The fun is finding out what works for you within the confines of eating in a low carb way.

Atkins induction says <20 carbs and then increase by 5 per week to reach the point at which you are still losing. PP says start at <30. Suggest you might go up to 55. The actual number that you end up with is likely to be about the same.

PP does send you through some mathematical puzzles to make a rather simple point that protein requirements increase the bigger you are. He does not mean the fatter you are just bigger. There is a difference between men and women also because although men are generally larger than women, women tend to naturally have slightly more body fat.

It is therefore useful to find out what your own minimum protein requirements are. PP also recommend that you pretty much divide equally the protein intake into your daily three meals.

Minimum protein requirement still holds true for those on Atkins. Atkins does not push it because if you reduce carbohydrate down you are only left with protein and fat and provided you are not starving yourself with a severely restricted calorie intake you are more than likely going to be over your minimum protein requirement following Atkins.

I personnally think that the Eades have the edge on Atkins in the way they put the same underlying science across. The calculations are definitely a good guide but only a guide.

After a while you will adapt and modify what you eat. We tweak,we vary,we experiment. We even trya bit of kiddology.

We try and fool our bodies that this or that particular carbohydrate will make no difference. But insulin is not fooled. Excess carbohydrate spikes insulin release and that leads to the laying down of fat by the body in all its favorite places.

Take your time and work out you goals and protein requirements. Then Tweak away until the Nikkiend plan takes over from PP that took over from Atkins which took over from..........Lets not go there again.
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, Jun-11-02, 04:56
lossiebeth's Avatar
lossiebeth lossiebeth is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 142
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 235/186/135
BF:
Progress: 49%
Location: Lossiemouth, SCOTLAND
Default

WISE AS EVER, SOLOMON, I MEAN, RUSTPOT

I'M ENJOYING PP. I LIKE BEING ABLE TO HAVE MORE VEGETABLES-NOT PIG OUT, JUST MORE. I SPENT SO MANY YEARS AS A VEGGIE AND/OR VEGAN, THAT I JUST *LOVE* MY VEG

MY ONLY COMPLAINT WITH PP IS THE LOWER GOAL WEIGHT. I *HAVE* LOWERED IT A BIT, BUT NOT TO THE 125 PP WOULD HAVE ME AT (WASN'T IT 117-125? I AM IN DENIAL ABOUT THAT LOWER NUMBER AND CAN'T REMEMBER IT ) I'M *SURE* I MUST BE TOO BIG BONED STILL, I HOPE TO START BFL SOON; ALL THAT EXERCISE WILL SORT ME OUT-IF IT DOESN'T KILL ME FIRST

BTW, LOVE THE NEW PHOTO, RUSTPOT
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Jun-11-02, 09:55
nikkiend nikkiend is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 163
 
Plan: Atkins/my own
Stats: 240/237/150 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 3%
Location: South Florida
Default

You know, Beth, I'd stop worrying about your goal weight. You know where you want to be and where you'll feel comfortable. I'm shooting for 150, but if I get to 155 or 160 and I feel good I'll be happy. Anything's better than where I am right now!
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, Jun-11-02, 11:41
nikkiend nikkiend is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 163
 
Plan: Atkins/my own
Stats: 240/237/150 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 3%
Location: South Florida
Default

Rustpot,
I am finding this time that I'm already doing a little more "tweaking" and not worrying so much about following every little thing. (At least while I'm on Atkins since I know it so well)
I don't think that I will have a problem getting the minimum protein requirement, but one of the things I am worried about is figuring whether I'm getting all of the fiber I need. I'm more someone who eats what I know I can and I don't plan meals in advance. I'd rather eat what I am in the mood for that night. I'm sure I'd do better calculating everything so I am sure that I will get everything I need, but I know I won't stick with doing that for long.
Another thing I'm noticing in different people's posts is that their goal weight in PP seems to really worry some of them; some even to the point of not feeling good about themselves when they were feeling good before. I don't want to be discouraged just yet. I'm feeling really good about losing 5 lbs. so far. I'm going to stick with the PPLP chart for now and get AT LEAST 40 gms. of protein per meal until I learn the diet better. Then I may be asking for some help on doing the calculations down the road. Thanks for all of your advice.
I do have another question about Atkins: I was reading thru the book last night and this bothered me the first time I was on it.
The book says you can have orange soda. Every orange soda I've checked has TONS of sugar in it! (I hate diet soda so I'm always looking for alternatives to break the monotony of water all the time) Have any input on that?
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  #13   ^
Old Tue, Jun-11-02, 17:16
rustpot's Avatar
rustpot rustpot is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,110
 
Plan: atkins/protein power 1st
Stats: 269/278/210 Male 5 feet 10 ins.
BF:33%/30%/ ?
Progress: -15%
Location: Hertfordshire
Default

My atkins says diet soda as a general rule. And read the label.

I am not sure what Atkins really means by Natural and Artificial orange soda. It is not a product we have in the UK.

They must have some carbs as you have found. If you have some to spare in your daily count why not, but ..... a carb is a carb is a carb whatever its source.

Except of course if its an effective carb and you are deducting the fibre content.

Fibre in orange soda? I think not!

In general, most carbonated drinks ( called sodas in US)will have caffeine, added sugar and fructose if it is a real fruit drink.

Count the carbs. Its the only way
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  #14   ^
Old Wed, Jun-12-02, 03:28
lossiebeth's Avatar
lossiebeth lossiebeth is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 142
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 235/186/135
BF:
Progress: 49%
Location: Lossiemouth, SCOTLAND
Default

Quote:
You know, Beth, I'd stop worrying about your goal weight

I NEED TO PRACTICE WHAT I PREACH, DON'T I? IT IS EASY FOR ME TO SAY THAT TO OTHERS, BUT I TREAT MYSELF SO DIFFERENTLY!

Quote:
Anything's better than where I am right now!

NOT MUCH MORE THAN A YEAR AGO, I WAS 235, IF NOT HIGHER. I HAD PLANNED TO BE AT MY GOAL WEIGHT BY 4O, AND INSTEAD I WAS STARING AT 250 IF I DIDN'T STOP. LUCKILY, I STOPPED! I FOUND C.A.D. AND THAT STARTED ME ON THE LO-CARB JOURNEY. WHEW!

KEEP ON PLUGGING AWAY; YOU'RE DOING GREAT! WE ALL ARE!
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  #15   ^
Old Wed, Jun-12-02, 06:20
nikkiend nikkiend is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 163
 
Plan: Atkins/my own
Stats: 240/237/150 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 3%
Location: South Florida
Default

Beth,
You've lost 40 lbs!!!
I would LOVE to be down 40 lbs. You're doing fantastic!!! Keep up the great work!
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