Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low Carb Health & Technical Forums > Cholesterol, Heart Disease
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Tue, May-16-17, 04:06
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,317
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default Bad Science from Dr Esselstyn by The Skeptical Cardiologist

Just discovered The Skeptical Cardiologist (based in St Louis if anyone is interested) through a Twitter repost of his second post on the topic of:

MORE INCREDIBLY BAD SCIENCE FROM DR. ESSELSTYNíS PLANT-BASED (VEGAN) DIET STUDY

https://theskepticalcardiologist.co...gan-diet-study/

Many, many heart health topics (CAC, calcium, aspirin, and of course statins) covered at:
https://theskepticalcardiologist.com
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Tue, May-16-17, 10:19
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is online now
Posts: 1,781
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Looks like an information feast. Thanks again, Janet!
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Tue, May-16-17, 10:41
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,008
 
Plan: ~25NC/IF
Stats: 342.2/197.3/000 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 42%
Default

What a brilliant little saying he wrote down, looks like he's using it as a quote or aphorism: "The Plural of Anecdote Is Not Data"

Gawd I love that line!
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Tue, May-16-17, 11:04
Mama Sebo's Avatar
Mama Sebo Mama Sebo is offline
Posts: 4,447
 
Plan: lc, highish fat,
Stats: 224/150.5/124 Female 64 inches
BF:44%/29%/20%
Progress: 74%
Location: Gaborone, Botswana
Default

Too true!!
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Thu, May-18-17, 08:51
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 6,090
 
Plan: IF/Fung IDM/Potato Hack?
Stats: 375/274.0/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: NE Florida
Default

Reading a few articles. So far they all directly contradict advice given by Dr. Davis in his new book, "Undoctored", such as calling functional or integrative medicine as " bogus" and "quakery", saying fish oil (which Dr. Davis highly recommends) is useless, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Thu, May-18-17, 09:26
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Posts: 2,983
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/122/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 112%
Location: Vermont
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
Reading a few articles. So far they all directly contradict advice given by Dr. Davis in his new book, "Undoctored", such as calling functional or integrative medicine as " bogus" and "quakery", saying fish oil (which Dr. Davis highly recommends) is useless, etc.



I noticed this too. He strikes me as one of those people who's put his toe in the water, maybe even occasionally waded up to his knees, but still afraid to dive into the waves. He says very low carb is unsustainable for most people and a Mediterranean diet with healthy whole grains is the way to go.

Jean
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Fri, May-19-17, 04:24
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,317
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Ok, thanks for checking that. I lhad ooked at his articles about the CAC, etc and thought he was aligned with current thought on its value, cholesterol, etc.

Fish oil has become very controversial. Chris Kresser has an article updated this year with some more research against its use. https://chriskresser.com/should-you...aking-fish-oil/
And funny observation...Dr Davis has Chris Kresser as an Unbiased Resource in the appendix..so chose which one to believe.

So when Dr Davis recommends some 3600 EPA/DHA in UnDoctored...not so sure I should believe him either. That's a lot of pills! Way OTT for some with low trigs. I look at so many sources that give conflicting advice, at least in the details, I tend to waver between them, or reach some middle ground...until the next article

Same with Dr Davis's fertilizing the gut with raw potato, etc. Others say a good variety of Low net carb vegetables will give prebiotics ...and way more tasty.

Last edited by JEY100 : Fri, May-19-17 at 08:27.
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Fri, May-19-17, 07:32
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Posts: 2,983
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/122/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 112%
Location: Vermont
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thud123
What a brilliant little saying he wrote down, looks like he's using it as a quote or aphorism: "The Plural of Anecdote Is Not Data"

Gawd I love that line!


I agree that it is a clever line but sometimes the weight of anecdotes reveals a truth that gets hidden in the so-called data.

So, although the plural of anecdote may not be data, the synonym of data may not be truth. Data can be poorly collected, poorly interpreted or even suppressed.

Also the synonym of anecdote is not falsehood. It implies untested but not necessarily untrue.

Jean
Reply With Quote
  #9   ^
Old Fri, May-19-17, 09:16
Mama Sebo's Avatar
Mama Sebo Mama Sebo is offline
Posts: 4,447
 
Plan: lc, highish fat,
Stats: 224/150.5/124 Female 64 inches
BF:44%/29%/20%
Progress: 74%
Location: Gaborone, Botswana
Default

Oh Jean, that is a wise statement. Although I agree that the plural of anecdote may not be data, I do believe that carefully assessed unique observations (anecdotes) may be rolled up to serve as data. But then, I'm an anthropologist, and thats what we do.
Reply With Quote
  #10   ^
Old Fri, May-19-17, 09:23
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 6,090
 
Plan: IF/Fung IDM/Potato Hack?
Stats: 375/274.0/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: NE Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Fish oil has become very controversial. Chris Kresser has an article updated this year with some more research against its use. https://chriskresser.com/should-you...aking-fish-oil/
True I'm not sure what I think about fish oil, which I actually don't take, though occasionally eat sardines. In fact, while I love Dr. Davis's writing style, I was actually somewhat disappointed in his book. I need to go through it again to find the points that concerned me. But I'm still more in line with him than the Skeptical Cardiologist who, in general, seems to toe the mainstream medical line, and mostly seems to regard anything alternative as quackery - at least in the few posts I read so far.
Reply With Quote
  #11   ^
Old Fri, May-19-17, 09:29
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,008
 
Plan: ~25NC/IF
Stats: 342.2/197.3/000 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 42%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
I agree that it is a clever line but sometimes the weight of anecdotes reveals a truth that gets hidden in the so-called data.

So, although the plural of anecdote may not be data, the synonym of data may not be truth. Data can be poorly collected, poorly interpreted or even suppressed.

Also the synonym of anecdote is not falsehood. It implies untested but not necessarily untrue.

Jean

Both can be used inappropriately to beat another over the head, neither are true or false, they just are.
Reply With Quote
  #12   ^
Old Fri, May-19-17, 10:00
Mama Sebo's Avatar
Mama Sebo Mama Sebo is offline
Posts: 4,447
 
Plan: lc, highish fat,
Stats: 224/150.5/124 Female 64 inches
BF:44%/29%/20%
Progress: 74%
Location: Gaborone, Botswana
Default

Thats right and that is the message: both can be used inappropriately, so lets not!!! Thanks Merpig!!!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:57.


Copyright © 2000-2017 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.