I posted something like this earlier but I want to post it again. But first let me explain something about me. I belong to 2 families my bio family has mostly diabetic issues...then there are my inlaws with autistic and cancer issues. All of these problems can be helped with good low carb knowledge that they reject because so many experts point them in a different direction. My mom died recently from diabetes/kidney failure at the young age of 84. I say young age because if she could have been directed to the low carb diet to treat her diabetes, instead of loaded up with meds she could have extended her 84 years. I believe that her suffering could have been prevented or at least reduced by better knowledge from the medical team.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/release...10420184429.htm

Edgy, I have read what you have to say with interest. I have also found all of the replies interesting. I, for one, totally understand how you feel. As I said previously, your kidneys are precious and when anything at all is wrong with them you become concerned. My creatinine levels were also high and as I had to have further blood tests my doctor was obviously concerned too. However, at some point my creatinine levels dropped, but they showed higher again on another occasion. I do not remember what kind of diet I was on at the time. I have found everyone on this site extremely helpful when I have posed a question, but I totally understand that you feel that they are against you. People tend to feel threatened when someone goes against their beliefs and possibly make comments that you do not like. The fox in the henhouse seems to have bothered you a great deal. Maybe this was an unthinking comment and I do understand how this upset you. I think that generally people are coming back with replies based on what is working for them. I think they are still your friends and want to support you. So, I would say, don't take their comments to heart because this will only stress you. Listen to their good advice, but and this is a big but, do what YOU KNOW SUITS YOU AND YOUR BODY. Check this out with further tests so that you know exactly how your body is responding regarding your kidneys. Check to see if your blood pressure is fine too. Check anything else that you need to. This way you can say that not only does your way of eating suit your body best, but it has been confirmed by medical tests. Be happy.

Good morning and how is Daryl these days? Gone are the fast paced days of ZIOH - sorta miss that..

Are you staying out of those ditches with your tractor?

Happy Friday brother love!

Well said Sayria..

Annah, thank you so much for this, and for understanding how attacked I felt by the responses I got.

In response to what some others have written: (1) I am NOT on medication that has a possible side effect of kidney damage, and (2) I am NOT dehydrated - I drink 2-3 litres of water a day.

Also, I have updated my stats to reflect that I've lost another pound. What I am doing is working for me, and I am much happier and healthier eating the way I'm eating. Here's what I ate yesterday:

Breakfast: Fruit salad with yogurt and granola
Lunch: Small curried chicken salad with dried apricots, green apples and raisins in it.
Snack: 80% salted dark chocolate bar (3 ingredients: sugar, chocolate, salt)
Dinner: Small green salad with some blue cheese on it and very light dressing.

I have no idea what the calories or carbs of that were because I don't count. I eat what I want when I'm hungry. I just control quantities by eating just enough to be satiated, never eating past full. I eat treats when I feel like it (occasional candy and cake), and I am losing weight nicely. Plus I feel good - my energy is much better than when my carbs were very low.

Like Annah and a few others have said, this is not a one-size-fits-all world. Every body is different. Medications work differently in different people, why not food? A very low carb diet does not work well in my body. What I'm doing now works well for me. Maybe it's not for everybody, but it's working well for me - it's not super high carb, but not super low, either.

Wow. I don't know what you consider high protein but it sounds like you're eating very little protein now.

I never said anything about "high protein". That was someone else. I wasn't eating a particularly high protein diet before. When my blood work showed kidney problems, I was eating very low carb, moderate protein, and high fat. Currently I eat differently on different days - I eat according to whim and I don't count calories, carbs, protein, fat, or anything else. My macronutrients are different on different days.

??? You confuse me. The supposed issue with low carb and kidneys is that the protein is too high and stresses the kidneys. So, if you ate moderate protein on low carb, what do you attribute the problem to? There's never been any linkage between high fat and kidney problems that I'm aware of. It was always the supposed excess protein.... which is a bit of a myth.

Also, you mentioned you were taking a drug that suppresses your autoimmune system because of a autoimmune disease you have. I checked into side effects of autoimmune suppressing drugs and found possible kidney damage was one side-effect, but since I don't have your particular drug name I can't say for sure.

I also don't know what autoimmune disease you have but that might have something to do with your kidneys. Many of them CAN attack the kidneys.

If it had been me. I would have asked the doctor to retest the kidney values and done it when I wasn't fasting, just to rule out the possibility that it was due to fasting or dehydration. I also would have asked the doctor if those values were problematic. Sometimes people have blips on tests where values go slightly out of range from one test to the next and doctors don't even mention them to their patients. For instance, if you drink booze a day or so before a test your liver enzymes might come back a little screwy.

I just read somewhere that working out strenuously can cause high creatine too. EGFR is calculated from creatine. They do a 24-hour urine catch to see what the real values are.

There have been people who get a cancer diagnosis, a kidney diagnosis, or almost anything, after they eat a low carb diet for a week or two and they immediately put the blame on the diet when there are many, many other factors to be considered.

The only factors we know about, because you chose to tell us, is diet (low carb paleo), some unnamed autoimmune disease, fasting status for the blood test, and an unnamed drug. We don't know how much you exercise, what supplements you take, whether you run marathons, or if you were dehydrated before the test, what your lifestyle is outside of what you've chosen to disclose. You could be abusing drugs, drinking, or have other undiagnosed diseases that affect the kidneys.

This is why you're encountering skepticism. Most of us think it's highly doubtful a mere two months of eating a paleo diet would do this to you.

Take a look at what labtestsonline.com says about high creatinine levels.

Me too, Nancy



Yes, I think Mallory from here had that happen to her, if I remember right.

FWIW, Lyle McDonald on protein and kidneys:



http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nu...troversies.html

Wow. I'm shaking my head... You have taken a beating... but you had to see the lights of the train coming at you, right?

You launched the thread with criticism of the diet (calling low carb an 'extreme diet'.) with no proof other than “it doesn’t fit me” – so I can see why you are being pummeled with study/articles/scientific proof that your statement is incorrect.

There are so many different diets these days - is vegetarianism an 'extreme diet'? What would happen if you told a vegetarian that their diet was unhealthy (on the veggie board, no less)? Probably the same clubbing you are getting here. You can’t expect to make sweeping critical statements about a way of eating based solely on one kidney test – and not be challenged all to heck by people who champion the life style!

It’s not what you said, it was the way you said it. What you should have said is this diet isn't working for me right now. My tests show blah, blah, and blah.

The ‘fox in the hen house’ comment is understandable. Look at it from their point of view for a moment. If you belong to any forum that isn’t following the main stream/status quo, there are going to be sick people who have nothing more productive to do with their time than to plant bombs on message boards to watch people get all riled up. Some (strange) folks call this entertainment. These inflammatory messages just waste server space and brain function – which is why they are removed, or caged (War Zone). So if you show up as a new member and all of a sudden call the diet extreme and a health risk…. You look like one of the ‘sick people’ and the term ‘fox in the hen house’ crops up.

You know, that's not even a correct statement. What I DID say was, "My tests show blah blah..." In fact, here is EXACTLY what I said in the first message in this thread:



I never attacked low-carb eating in general. I just said that I had a blood test that indicated a problem. I had been eating extremely low-carb for over a month - about two months. My energy remained very low, and my blood work showed the beginnings of kidney problems. I was posting about me, me, me - not attacking anyone else or making any kind of global statements. I still think that keeping carbs fairly low is a good thing - just for ME, not as low as they had been.

I am not a medical expert and I don't pretend to be one. I did not dive into the medical literature to explain my results and I'm not going to do it now. I read in the Atkins book that if you have any kind of kidney disease (which I did NOT when I started this) that you should not go on the induction diet (and my carbs had been at induction levels). That was enough to suggest to me that it's related to the diet. I went off the extremely low-carb diet, and my kidney function is back to normal.

To all those pseudo-scientists trying to explain my blood work: I was NOT dehydrated, I was NOT taking medication with a side effect of kidney damage, and I was NOT eating excessively high protein (though I was eating more protein than I'm eating now since my carbs are now higher and my protein and fat are now lower).

Also, FYI, I am down another pound this morning, so what I'm doing is working - I'm 144 this morning, below 145 for the first time in YEARS. Before you all tell me I couldn't lose two pounds in two days, I lost nothing for two weeks, then lost the two pounds in two days. That's just how my body lets go of weight.

Not everything is known about weight loss, you know - the body is very mysterious in some ways.

For those interested, here's what I ate yesterday...

Breakfast: fruit salad with yogurt and granola
Lunch: grilled salmon salad (ate about half) then a small chocolate-dipped macaroon.
Dinner 1: Other half of salmon eaten on a whole grain roll with butter.
Dinner 2: More of the uneaten salad from lunch (didn't finish it).

I am happiest when I'm not following any kind of diet - just eating what I want but in moderation.

The title of the thread kind of belies that: stress on kidneys from low carb.

Your assertion is: You had perfectly healthy kidneys, despite medication and an autoimmune disease, and yet somehow 8 short weeks on low carb, with plenty of diversions off the diet, caused stress on your kidneys.

Speaking of which, looking at your journal, it sounds like you took quite a few dives off the low carb wagon on your short sojourn. Just a reminder that Paleo doesn't necessarily mean Atkins level of low carb. Lots of paleo eaters eat fruit, roots, squash and so on.

I don't have any issue with your current diet. If it makes you happy, great. I just take issue with your conclusion that your blip on a blood test is due to harm to your kidneys from low carb.

Yes, this. I have autoimmune diseases. And I do take a lot of steroids (not by choice...lol) and over the years I'd been given some injection type immunosuppressant drugs. To be sure my PKD wasn't just hydronephrosis, I also did genetic tests. Now, I know my disease IS genetic. And still..I'm not eating protein in amounts to bother my bloodwork or my kidneys (as per bloodwork).

I WAS, however, eating a LOT of phosphorus containing foods. I see people in my nephrology forum groups...one week they'll have to cool it with phosphorus, the next protein. Oh, yes, I've seen people who thought they were doing Atkins, but they were chowing down on almost pure protein to the exclusion of any other foods. It's a high fat diet.

I get to keep my fat, and I can have protein at this point. And my kidneys are being managed by a nephrologist. And NO, lowcarb didn't do this to me, (my relatives did, lol).