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  #886   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 20:24
theBear theBear is offline
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Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
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MODERN Alaskan cooking. Not traditional subsistence Inuit.

The Inuit ate much of their meat raw if not frozen, and only boiled their meat a little in skins over seal-oil lamps, no other cooking method was available. The ancient Inuit fed most of the animal (including the stomach and intestines) to their dogs. They consumed the tongue, liver (not seal) and nose, as well as some favoured cuts like the shoulder from the carcass, the remainder was fed to the dogs. Dogs were very important and ate as well or better than the people in most circumstances. It was end-game starvation if an Inuit either failed to feed or ate his dogs.
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  #887   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 22:21
theBear theBear is offline
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Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
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Definitions:

Modern or 'normal' diet:

A 'mixed diet'. Omnivorous, including all low toxicity vegetation and most if not all meats eggs and dairy. Arguably the primary cause of many of modern man's health problems such as obesity, tooth decay, premature aging, coronary heart disease, diabetes, early cataracts, weak bones, joint and back (disk) problems and a few others.

Vegetarian:

Omnivorous, or quasi-omnivorous, including most if not all low toxicity vegetation, and some or all of the following: eggs, dairy, fish, Fowl. No 'red' meat. Moderately deficient diet, severity depends on the animal-food content and supplementation with synthetic vitamins and minerals. ,It usually causes no more than mild malnutrition. Is subject to all the ills listed above for mixed diet.

Vegan:

Herbivorous. This is the only truly 'vegetarian' diet. It includes all or most low toxicity vegetables, often heavy on fruit, and no foods of any kind from animal sources. Very deficient diet, it is very difficult to supplement as many animal-source only nutrients are missing. Adults may survive for a surprisingly long time on such a pallid regime, but it is rapidly fatal to babies and young children if/when taken off the breast. Breast feeding is very body-damaging- as is gestation- to a vegan woman.

Carnivorous, or 'all meat diet':

Includes all meats, eggs and some dairy (that which has low to no carbs/lactose). Does not include any vegetables of any kind other than some small amounts of certain plants used as spices. Provides perfect lifelong nutrition, no deficiencies, no supplementation is needed. It produces none, in fact protects against, all of the above listed ills.

Nutritional/energy value of animal-sourced foods: One unit of red (fat) meat equals 2 units of chicken or three units of fish or four units of eggs and/or cheese. Only some few cheeses have enough fat of the the non red-meat foods, some added fat is necessary to make them fat-balanced.

Last edited by theBear : Fri, Mar-24-06 at 22:35. Reason: error
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  #888   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 22:24
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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David,

I was not trying to "label" anyone psychotic. What I was referring to was behavior. I don't know what you would call someone who is so freaked out (from nutrient deprivation) that they consume over thirty POUNDS of dates in ONE day! You have no idea what I was referring to. But, it is really not worth going into. According to you, we humans are apparently evolving toward becoming some sort of sea creature who will consume nothing but plankton in the near future! I guess you watched too many re-runs of Flipper when you were a lad. I think I will take Bawdy's advice and just quit reading your bad attempts at science fiction prose.

Last edited by PaleoDeano : Fri, Mar-24-06 at 22:32.
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  #889   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 22:37
theBear theBear is offline
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Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
Progress:
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You said it- better than I could, dean.

Last edited by theBear : Fri, Mar-24-06 at 22:38. Reason: err
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  #890   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 22:43
Frederick's Avatar
Frederick Frederick is offline
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Posts: 1,512
 
Plan: Atkins - Maintenance
Stats: 185/150/150 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BawdyWench
I'm mostly curious how people are adapting to this way of eating. I've always been extremely low carb, but now am down to zero carbs, except what's in eggs and the occasional (VERY occasional) nuts I eat.


For me, given my naturally intense disliking of all plant-foods, it has been incredibly effortless. However, like most of us here, I’ve been low-carbing for about three years. My body has already more or less acclimated to burning primarily fat.

So far, being on 0 (5 in practice) carbs hasn’t caused any issues thus far. Even my weight workout sessions haven’t really suffered. I feel great, and feel that I’m now as physically more fit and healthier than I have ever been at any other point in my life.

In my case, I am certain it is from eating a purely fatty meat based diet.
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  #891   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 22:52
Frederick's Avatar
Frederick Frederick is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,512
 
Plan: Atkins - Maintenance
Stats: 185/150/150 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleoDeano
According to you, we humans are apparently evolving toward becoming some sort of sea creature who will consume nothing but plankton in the near future! I guess you watched too many re-runs of Flipper when you were a lad. I think I will take Bawdy's advice and just quit reading your bad attempts at science fiction prose.


In my view, aside from posterity’s sake, I’m not interested in what my ancestors had eaten, or had not eaten.

If my ancestors weren’t resourceful enough and had to rely on some vegetation, fruits, berries, and nuts classifying them as omnivores, to what end would I mimic their behavior if I’m resourceful enough to be completely carnivorous without ever having to resort to vegetation?

Given that I derive all the nutrients I need from meats, cheese, eggs, and whatever, can anyone give me one good reason to eat vegetation? Is it only because our ancestors weren’t evolved enough to survive without it?
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  #892   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 23:03
Davideb Davideb is offline
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Posts: 35
 
Plan: high fat BFL
Stats: 170/170/170 Male 1.80
BF:
Progress:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleoDeano
David,
According to you, we humans are apparently evolving toward becoming some sort of sea creature who will consume nothing but plankton in the near future! I guess you watched too many re-runs of Flipper when you were a lad. I think I will take Bawdy's advice and just quit reading your bad attempts at science fiction prose.


According to me?!
Are you saying this because I wrote that's a theory on anthropologist and other quarters about human evolving along the water and eating fish?
Did I say I made that theory? Did I say I agree with that theory?
speechless
It's funny you take the time to criticize other's fanatism, since you're a sure winner in that category

David
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  #893   ^
Old Fri, Mar-24-06, 23:45
Bobi-p's Avatar
Bobi-p Bobi-p is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 628
 
Plan: VLC
Stats: 240/145/150 Female 69 inches
BF: 21%, HT: 69"
Progress: 106%
Location: Southern California
Default

theBear, Frederick and Dean... We all feel great on this way of eating. Most of us have preferentially done this for several years with slight deviations when the PC nutritionists got to us, with the exception of you, theBear. So...I am sure we will continue on. I think this is a great discussion. I discard what I don't like and continue to enjoy the thread. Let's just keep it up. The only carbs I am taking in are the cream in my coffee, the coffee itself, and the eggs. I no longer care what anybody else thinks, and they pretty much don't ask me anymore. AMEN!
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  #894   ^
Old Sat, Mar-25-06, 01:29
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davideb
speechless
As Bobi said... AMEN!
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  #895   ^
Old Sat, Mar-25-06, 09:53
TwilightZ's Avatar
TwilightZ TwilightZ is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 359
 
Plan: meat and meat by-products
Stats: 270/191/150 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 66%
Location: TwilightZone (Phila, PA)
Default

Bear,

How is your vision and eye health?
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  #896   ^
Old Sat, Mar-25-06, 10:40
CharmedOne's Avatar
CharmedOne CharmedOne is offline
New Member
Posts: 6
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 203.5/192.4/120 Female 5.2
BF:
Progress: 13%
Default

I'm sorry, I have skipped a few posts in my eagerness to thank Bear for posting his views.

I find this very interesting to read and I totally get what you are saying, you are quite clear.

I am a vegtable lover, but not from birth, my family never fed us veggies..but we did eat trashy carbs. I did however always think that veggies were 'good' for you...now I do love them, particularly smothered in cheese or butter.

I have a question and I apologise if this has been mentioned. A few months ago I was watching Oprah and a doctor on there mentioned that MEAT cannot be digested in the body, but must ROT before it is expelled, and why we need to eat roughage to help it along. The rotting can take months.
Well, immediately upon hearing that I knew something was not right, as the amount of meat I have eaten on Atkins in the past would have me at 500lbs in a month ;-) So where did a DOCTOR get this information?

Perhaps there is another who remembers the show I am talking about, clearer than I...perhaps there was even a thread on here about it, I have been away for a long time.

Please forgive me if this has already been mentioned!
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  #897   ^
Old Sat, Mar-25-06, 10:43
JandLsMom's Avatar
JandLsMom JandLsMom is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,719
 
Plan: atkins induction
Stats: 330/330/165 Female 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Illinois
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGraff
Absolute Scientific Proof Carbohydrates Are Pathogenic
(Disease Causing)
www.biblelife.org/carbs.htm


This article is an absolute GEM!!! It backs up many of the things Bear has been telling us! Within the article are many, many other links that are also great reading! Anyone who hasnt checked out the above article, i highly recommend it!! Thanks for posting it CGraff!! It makes me re-assess whether maybe i really SHOULD try out an all meat diet!! hmmm...WOW!
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  #898   ^
Old Sat, Mar-25-06, 11:05
JandLsMom's Avatar
JandLsMom JandLsMom is offline
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Posts: 1,719
 
Plan: atkins induction
Stats: 330/330/165 Female 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Illinois
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
A pediatrician I consulted at the time of my second wife's pregnancy in 1960 told me that a newborn human baby could ONLY digest human milk and (not too fatty), under-cooked or raw, finely chewed or pureed- meat. He also said that grain and vegetable based baby foods like Pablum would cause serious gastric and colonic difficulties until the child reached at least 2-1/2 years of age.

Some vegans have famously been jailed for homicide for causing the deaths of their children from malnutrition due to their diet.



Bear,
I know you said your wife isn't on the all meat diet with you, but rather a low carb diet with some vegetation. I am wondering how did she eat DURING her pregnancies? Did she eat low carb? If so, How many carbs per day was she eating during pregnancy? I know Atkins doesnt recommend pregnant or lactating woman to follow Atkins induction (less than 20 carbs per day) but rather recommends The Atkins lifetime maintenance phase of the diet for pregnant and lactating women (70-100 carbs a day). I keep reading about how pregnant woman can't be in ketosis during pregnancy so they need to up their carbs to a safe level. I have also read that being in ketosis (below 50 carbs per day isn't good for the baby's brain development). I really don't know how much truth there is to it! I have run across a yahoo group where there are woman who DO advocate Atkins induction while pregnant, and these woman ARE eating less than 20 carbs a day while pregnant and saying it is perfectly safe. I am wondering if you can shed any light on this at all. Do you know what is a safe level of carb intake while pregnant or nursing? Would your all meat diet be safe for a pregnant woman? If so, Why? I am not pregnant right now, but if i become pregnant again in the future i am wondering how many carbs will be necessary! Thanks.
karen
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  #899   ^
Old Sat, Mar-25-06, 16:13
Harvest's Avatar
Harvest Harvest is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 86
 
Plan: Paleo*lite
Stats: 185/135/125 Female 5'7
BF:
Progress: 83%
Location: Chugiak, Alaska
Default The Inuit Paradox

How can people who gorge on fat and rarely see a vegetable be healthier than we are?

This is, IMHO worth a read.
http://www.discover.com/issues/oct-.../inuit-paradox/
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  #900   ^
Old Sat, Mar-25-06, 18:09
kneebrace kneebrace is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,429
 
Plan: atkins/ IF
Stats: 162/128/130 Male 175
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick
If my ancestors weren’t resourceful enough and had to rely on some vegetation, fruits, berries, and nuts classifying them as omnivores, to what end would I mimic their behavior if I’m resourceful enough to be completely carnivorous without ever having to resort to vegetation?

Given that I derive all the nutrients I need from meats, cheese, eggs, and whatever, can anyone give me one good reason to eat vegetation? Is it only because our ancestors weren’t evolved enough to survive without it?



Fredrerick, I think you've pretty well summed up what we should all take from this fascinating thread. I think it is interesting to note that we can derive some nourishment from many different forms of vegetation and that definitely would have been a survival advantage in bearing and raising offspring in an environment of scarce animal food sources. But to suggest that must make it a healthier human diet is pretty ridiculous.
And yet David is using the spurious net acid load theory to argue just that. And he is also suggesting that because comparative anatomy shows humans to not be OBLIGATE carnivores then we somehow must be OBLIGATE OMNIVORES. David, there is no such thing. Closer examination of the excellent health (particularly bone health) AND longevity enjoyed by all 'net acid load' cultures and the admittedly statistically insignifigant but (IMHO) entirely credible testimony of the Bear about his adult lifelong dietary experience, make this conclusion very shaky.

I'm also a bit dismayed that David seems to also be suggesting that the Bear's experience can not be extrapolated to the human animal generally- i.e. that the Bear must be somehow physiologically unique. This is grotesque.

Then David suggested that the people who found the carnivore = optimal health argument reported by the Bear convincing to be somehow gullible fools. So be it. I must be a fool .

Anyway, good on you Frederick for capturing the essence of this thread.

Last edited by kneebrace : Sat, Mar-25-06 at 18:52.
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