Many zero carbers use nothing in their coffee, Maeve. In fact, some ZC give up drinking coffee or tea since they come from plants.

I drink coffee, not as much as I used to. But I drink my coffee black. I also live in the desert, so I drink iced tea this time of year, but it's plain iced tea I make myself from tea bags.

There are exceptions to everything in personal practice, however. Some ZC use HWC in their coffee as long as it doesn't cause them problems.

There are no stumbling blocks in becoming ZC. Becoming ZC is progressive for most. It's a process, one step at a time, for many.

I began with simply eating more meat, less salad (since I began as LC on Atkins 1972 induction level). Once I saw that any vegs were holding me back from weight loss & keeping some cravings alive, I cut out all vegs.

Take things a step at a time if that is your goal. There are no "have to do's" -- there's just 100% ZC & what I prefer to think of as very-low-carb (VLC). 100% ZC is eating nothing but meat & meat products, including eggs and/or dairy.

I still eat eggs. They don't cause me a problem. However, they aren't as filling as meat, so I have to eat meat with eggs to make a meal that holds me 6-8 hours, which I prefer in eating twice a day.

The only dairy I use most days is butter, as needed in cooking or to give moisture to low-fat meats such as chicken breast. I still am using some sliced cheese this week, but plan to stop when I finish the package I have. Why? Because it makes me think I can just have a cheese omelette for a meal, but it doesn't hold me 6-8 hours. Only meat does that, especially a form of beef.

So, you see, it's not just a matter of what's true ZC, but what works for one personally, remembering that any change in food is progressive if it's to be helpful & last. At least, that's what my experience at my age has been like.

Another thing on coffee & tea when ZC. The longer I am ZC in daily practice, the less coffee I drink by itself. Why? Because it begins to upset my stomach if I simply drink a few cups of coffee in the morning without food.

I don't know about you, but for me I learned in earlier years to drink coffee to put off eating or to decrease how much I ate when dieting.

On ZC -- eating mostly meat & some eggs -- I find I can drink maybe 2 cups of coffee before my stomach either gets upset or I simply am very aware I'm empty & need food which to me often feels like light nausea.

I don't know how it would be with some form of dairy in my coffee because I've never had coffee that way & don't want to. To me, it'd be like ruining good whiskey by putting anything but a single ice cube in it.

I've read that more experienced ZC people evolve over time to either not drinking coffee or tea OR drinking it only with or after a meal.

I'm not aware of any who've been ZC for a year or more who persist in adding anything to their coffee, if they still drink coffee.

I've always been a coffee addict since my teen years. I don't know if I'll ever quit drinking coffee. But I now drink one or two cups of coffee a day when for years (before ZC) I drank many more cups daily.

Today I drink more bottled spring water than I do coffee or tea. It is today a very attractive drink to me -- just water.

Thanks for the input Mo. Like you, I also drank black coffee in the morning as a diet aid...a not very effective diet aid I must add!
I have just started adding HWC to my morning coffee, (2 cups- 2 tabl. HWC.). I got the idea from Atkins. It does seem to help me as far as hunger and cravings go. But, after more research and imput from folks on this site, I think I will not have any cream in the morning, and see how I make out. It may be a crutch I don't really need. We'll see...
Thanks again. These are unchartered waters for me and I'm finding my way..
Maeve

Thanks again for the inspiration. I was able to give up my splenda sweetened diet soda and that has helped . Also I figured I would give myself a break from even the small amount of veggies that I consume and I have to say I am back to very few cravings , very little appetite, so the scale is moving again. I am so pleased at the lost pounds but really really really excited that I have very little appetite again. YAY

You're right, Maeve. We each find our own way to what works -- or is helpful -- for ourselves personally.

I mostly drink some black coffee in the morning due to habit (I've had coffee mornings since my teens) but also because I believe it gives me a better quality of awake for beginning the day.

I find that how much coffee I drink -- & how much I make at one time -- has decreased considerably since I started LC with Atkins & as I went on with ZC. Last year I switched from a drip coffeemaker to instant as I stopped drinking enough coffee to warrant making multiple cups by drip. Now I make it 4 ounces at a time, usually drinking 8-12 oz in the morning.

I don't think of anything I eat or drink as a crutch. Most of what I eat or drink is from habit, which is why carbs have such a drawing power on everyone who grows up eating a lot of carbs from childhood on.

When I change a habit by doing things a certain way different for weeks or months at a time, then I'm lessening the power of old ideas & old habits. Habits can be changed but it takes time while practicing each day the new way, the new "habit" one wishes to learn.

That's how I approach stuff anyway.

Thanks for sharing this, ebeadss.

The biggest bonus for me in eating ZC is loss of hunger so that I'm satisfied by eating two meals a day about 8 hours apart most days.

I'm not sure the scale will continue showing a weight loss as often as I'd like, but for sure over weeks & months I will continue to experience a loss of inches over my body.

One characteristic of ZC I've found is that I can gauge my progress weight-wise more accurately by the fit of my clothes than by the scale.

I don't know why that is, nor do I care about why it works this way.

This for me is the most accurate way of getting what assurance I need & sought earlier from daily weighing.

Copied from my journal entry for today:

For the next month -- to 1 Sept -- I'm going to follow an example I read about this morning on ZIOH (FB).

This person found daily weighing of self gave a false progress report on living ZC (eating meat & animal products only, little to no dairy except butter). So she went only by the fit of her clothing, weighing herself only once a month.

She & others like her found that the scale lies big-time.

The scale may or may not vary for weeks or months at a time, BUT she continued needing to buy new clothing as she SHRANK out of the clothes she had been wearing. Same experience reported by men, other women.

There are complicated scientific reasons for this I am sure, but my brain prefers to keep it simple. If it works, why bother myself with figuring out WHY it works???

So I've slid the bathroom scale under the bed so I don't automatically weigh each morning. The less my brain has to think about what I'm doing, the more I automatically do the same thing, day after day. Eat meat + eggs, drink water ... eat meat + eggs, drink water.

Sounds boring, doesn't it? Simplicity can appear that way, but the truth is that a way of eating should be automatic & habitual. Eat when hungry. Stop when no longer hungry. In between meals, drink water.

To me, it doesn't sound boring. It sounds like food fading into the background of daily life, becoming mere fueling up for energy & not eating food for comfort or other emotional issues better handled other ways.

To me, it sounds like life once more taking the spotlife each day ... not food or thinking all the time of what shall I eat next? and how shall I fix it?

ZC for me is a no-brainer.

From my journal entry of today:

The Standard American Diet (SAD) is seen daily in tv ads for snacks & various kinds of fast food. The SAD is what America eats when rich corporations make most of the processed foods that Americans eat & eat mostly.

Meals advertised for busy Moms to make are frozen in a box, need only a few minutes of something or other stirred up in a skillet & suddenly there's a delightful meal that thrills husband & children alike to eat. You'd think it was Christmas or something. The world of tv ads is like Fantasyland. Never are people shown as they often appear or feel after decades of eating the SAD. That wouldn't be fun or Fantasyland at all.

In current times, I sense that food is treated as something more than just a source of energy for the body. It's what to do when bored or angry or sad. It's a reward we give ourselves, or if it's a diet to lose weight, then it's a punishment. So food gets charged with all sorts of emotional issues it never had until we "fed" those issues into the food we eat.

Since I eat the original human diet -- animal flesh & sometimes eggs -- I find the issues that I used to find resolved in food have dropped away. It has taken time & the job isn't done yet, but it's happening. That's why I recently removed the scale from the bathroom as well as from the kitchen. I no longer weigh me or my food, but I also no longer eat anything processed. I eat raw meat that I cook myself without seasonings (except a little sea salt on some of it) or plain eggs with meat I cook myself.

If I weigh myself, my mind tells me I'm on a diet & the goal is to watch the numbers get smaller. If the numbers don't get smaller on a daily basis, then I feel Something is Wrong, so I double down on portion size or what I eat until I'm eating too little to nourish my body. Then I feel "deprived," so I binge or else double the size of my next meal because I am ... hungry as a bear.

Actually, I wasn't hungry as a bear, I was starving myself. Dieting is depriving myself of the nourishment my body wants & deserves.

I'm not on a diet. I'm on a way of life with food called Zero Carb. I eat nothing that begins life in a factory where its essential form is changed into something that fits in a box or bag that then fits on a shelf or in the refrigerated section of a supermarket.

Yes, raw meat -- beef, pork, poultry -- is found in the refrigerated section of a supermarket, but it's essential form -- raw meat -- is not altered by a factory transformation.

My point is simply that putting away the scales means I no longer have to think much about what I eat or how much. I eat when hungry. I eat only meat & sometimes a pair of eggs as well. I use butter in the skillet if needed for cooking, then pour whatever cooks out of the meat over the meat on the plate.

Unless it's ground beef, then I discard what cooks out of it because ground beef is ALTERED in the USA to contain less fat. I am learning I do not care for ground beef. What's served as "hamburger" in a fast food joint often contains additives so it tastes good. Plain ground beef cooked from raw I find does not taste good. It NEEDS additives to taste good. I eat only animal products so I don't use additives to make food taste good. I only eat the meat that tastes good all by itself.

Do I want to lose weight? I want to be smaller. The two are not the same. My old self was trained by society's ways to believe they were the same, that to be smaller I had to weigh less on a scale. Eating ZC, I find this is not true. I'm smaller today than I was yesterday -- how do I know? the fit of my clothes -- but if I were to stand on a scale, it might not agree.

I read someone yesterday who is also ZC who has dropped clothing sizes but the scale doesn't say the person has lost more than a few pounds. I find that fascinating, how the scale has such a heavy influence on how I look at myself as well as how I treat myself. No one else sees me as I see myself when I've stepped on a scale in the morning.

Until today I was keeping a food journal on the kitchen counter where I prepare my food. The food journal -- & measuring/weighing my food -- is part of the whole mind drama of dieting -- the urge to control what & how much I eat in order to lose weight.

This morning I read a long but very informative pair of posts by a ZC veteran in the ZIOH ZC group. I won't pretend to duplicate here what she says so well in her posts. But the main point is one I am taking to heart. ZC is NOT a DIET. It's a way of life. So I'm ridding myself of all the trappings of dieting.

Bingeing & overeating are traits of dieting, of trying to control what the body does with food. Remove carbs -- all carbs from non-animal sources -- & over time most of the triggers that cause bingeing or overeating go bye-bye. That's what Suzannayea who started this thread years ago discovered.

The solution to bingeing & overeating is simple: give the body ONLY the food it needs. And that's meat, meat, meat & maybe a few eggs.

It's also drink water, water, water, maybe (for people like me) a cup or two of coffee daily to get the eyes open in the morning.

The only problem with drinking coffee, tea, or even diet soft drinks when ZC is that they are usually used to sub for food ... an old dieting trick to cut down on calories.

So I am trying to keep the coffee down to just what's needed for alertness.

I also eat the first time earlier than I have in the past. Usually within an hour or 90 minutes of arising. Whenever I'm sure the coffee has me alert enough to be trusted at the stove with a burner on.

Dieting for most of my life, I believe, is what screwed up my body & weight in the first place, although my growing problem with weight over the past 30 years had to do with a progressively growing allergy to carbs -- ALL carbs from non-animal sources. The problem IS NOT carbs. It's eating anything beyond meat -- nonprocessed meat, none of the crappola from adding carbs to meat such as in bacon curing with sugar, hams cured with honey, pepperoni & salamis cured with god-only-knows-what added from plant sources.

No, not everyone who says they are ZC does all this. Some settle for half-measures & get stuck in minimal results as well, often enough complaining that ZC doesn't work when the problem is just that they weren't willing to do true ZC. All they wanted to do was "look" ZC.

I realize from what I've been learning now that dieting is a mentality that I fell into during my teen years --wanting to look good, the standard back then for "looking good" being someone called Twiggy .

Today I just want to be whatever weight is healthy for me & MOSTLY to live out the rest of my life as healthy as possible. I am convinced the way to do that is to be 100% ZC.

I find what direction I need on doing just that from several of the administrators of the Facebook ZC group ZIOH.

As in most threads here, all kinds of people with all kinds of practice & experience or lack of experience with what they are talking about post in ZIOH.

I don't follow just anyone. I did enough of my homework to find 2-3 ZC veterans of multiple-year experience of being 100% ZC who represent what I also want from ZC. Those individuals I follow by their posts in ZIOH.

Everyone here as in ZIOH is trying to be successful in what they are doing. All I'm doing now is resigning from the diet club, the diet mentality.

ZC is my way of life. When I'm hungry or empty, I eat meat, maybe some eggs with the meat. When I'm not hungry, I'm living life, not thinking about food.

I went grocery shopping yesterday. About 20 minutes in Walmart. Just long enough to scan the fresh meat aisle, pick up the meat I wanted, plus some butter & eggs. I only use butter when needed for cooking.

I've given up trying to eat fatty meat that, personally, I don't like much. I ate ground beef last week because it has more fat content that does chicken.

However, this week I'm eating only what meat I like & can afford. That's chicken thighs or 1/2 breasts (wearing their bones & skin), thin pork chops (bone-in) & some of those pork loin hunks that sell cheap because used mostly for carnitas. Carnitas involves non-animal seasonings or ingredients. I just take the hunks, slice them thin with a very sharp knife, fry them, & eat 'em. Yum!

Some can afford steak. I cannot. I don't care how delish it is. I live on what I can afford. I also don't fall for the misinformation some put out that it costs more to eat meat than it does to eat carbs. It doesn't. I buy ONLY meat, eggs, water, butter. It costs me about half what I used to pay for groceries when including "approved" carbs such as LC vegs & lettuce & all those LC additives & seasonings that cost an arm & a leg.

The only seasoning I buy & use is sea salt. I spend a little more than the cost of Morton's, which uses sugar to prevent caking. I buy only the sea salt that is in its natural form, chunks, within a grinder. I grind it fresh as I add it to my food, but only after my food is cooked, since salt added to raw meat can make it tough.

The following is a comment that closely parallels my own experience & understanding about carbs & the ZC way of eating that I'm quoting from Billi-Jean Hayes, a veteran ZC member of ZIOH.

I've often felt that all my food problems in my earlier life were caused by the addictive nature of carb foods, but until I read Billi-Jean's post (see below) I'd never found anyone else who had the same view based on her own experience.

I have Billi-Jean Hayes' permission to quote her comment here in full:


=================================

Another comment, about it being rather wearing to have to deal with carb-food preparation to cater to others, made me think about just how true this is and how all the 'fuss' surrounding carbs becomes anathema after you've been ZC for quite some time...

Not too long ago, I had to go shopping for a family of carb-eaters. A rather unique situation for me, especially after so many years and particularly since there was no shopping list involved, given the surrounding circumstances, which were such that I just had to wing it.

Well, I can't remember the last time I have even 'noticed' all the 'foods' at supermarkets. I have, somewhere along the way, stopped even seeing them, it seems. I walk in, head to my 'sections' (usually just meat and mineral water) and then find myself outside again, all without even registering whatever else those places hold. Despite the glaring bright colours and all the merchandising tricks...I seem to have become oblivious to all of it.

So, when I suddenly found myself having to 'switch on' my visual senses again in order to be able to go about the task of choosing from all those items, it struck me full force in the most unpleasant manner. I walked in and felt suddenly slammed. Assailed by all of that overwhelming stimulus from of all those options, so much so that it stopped me dead in my tracks and caused a type of paralysing confusion in my brain that just left me gawping and trying to process it all. I literally had no idea where to begin or how to go about choosing from all the endless 'stuff' glaring and demanding attention.

It had nothing to do with any anxiety about being tempted or anything of that nature, just the sheer mind-blowing pointlessness of all this so-called 'food' screaming to be seen and chosen, like some surreal joke being played out upon an unwittingly addicted society, a sick consumerist competition of sorts where the poor players had no idea that they were trapped like mice in an awful maze, being pulled to and fro and from aisle to aisle, by the grip of a carb-addicted mind and body.

It made me sad, really, the whole awful situation and I remember thinking, how the hell do people go through this several times a week??! Bombarded by all this, trapped by their compulsions, which are so carefully engineered behind the scenes to keep people trapped in that terrible cycle, over and over, again and again, in an unwitting, almost mindless dance with their 'enslavers'. Not something they chose to 'trap' themselves into, but yet which they remain largely unaware of the true nature of too; that their 'choices' are not truly fully their own either, so fuelled and driven are they by the external and internal effects of carb-addiction. SAD in all its devastating glory.

I am so glad I no longer have to experience the ravages of that repeating scenario, like I used to when I was a carb-eater. Those awful feelings of what is akin to a type of lust and longing for all those false promises that those items seem to lure you with. In my carb days I would walk in to supermarkets and be struck with an unbearable sense of longing and desire and a type of pain too, at the same time, for all the things I wasn't buying in that moment, feeling thus deprived even as I was piling my chosen carbs into my cart. Everything that didn't go in my cart felt like a painful loss, in that particular way that only carbs can, of course, when you are trapped in their addictive grip. No matter how many go in your cart, they will never ever be 'enough'.

I am so grateful to be free from all that. And I would encourage others to try to see this perspective for themselves, even if they are not quite there yet, on their own journey. Foster the mindset that can at least envision this future reality for yourself. People say ZC must surely always make you feel 'deprived'. What they don't realise is that, in truth, it is the only cure for that very condition. For those who are willing to do it properly and remain ZC for long enough to overcome the enslavement to carbs, actual freedom from food obsession is what they will ultimately gain.

I wish for everyone to get to the point where they can truly understand this freedom and see that all those carbs they think they will miss too much to let go of, are merely the illusions created by addiction. It you really want to stop feeling deprived, ZC, that very so-called 'extreme' end of all the 'depriving ways of eating', is actually your only real hope to become free of those endless carb-driven feelings where nothing is ever 'enough'.
Carbs doom you to always suffer from longings for 'more', both physically and mentally - and thus, of course, emotionally bond you in deeply cultural and personal ways too. ZC however can and will, paradoxically, finally give you the kind of contentment your very cells call out for; that profound cellular sense of it and the concomitant confirmation of a mind and body which is fulfilling the need to experience true satiation: that intuitive state of knowing that your food is deeply and truly enough. And in a way which you probably have never experienced before, because carbs prevent the experiencing of true cellular satiation. If you can just do ZC and stick with it long enough to allow all the bonds of attachment and addiction to carbs to be fully transformed, it will be the most freeing thing you will ever know; true nourishment.

===================================

Still going strong on Zero Carb as an exclusive carnivore eating only animal flesh & animal byproducts such as eggs or cheese. I seem to have lost my binge button when it comes to cheese. Took awhile, though. Today I can have a 1 or 2 ounce slice as a side to a 1/2 pound of ground beef, cooked of course. I don't eat raw meat. Some do, though.

For weeks, I ate a lot of chicken. Chicken tastes good to me, but I can't lose weight as a carnivore eating mostly chicken. Just too lean. About 50/50. I prefer 30/70 or higher.

So I'm back to ground beef, the 73/27 one that checks out at 78% fat. (Don't ask me how I figure this stuff because I don't. I cheat & use the figures a retired M.D. named Paul Mabry shares on his website Born to Eat Meat.)

This week I'm mostly eating Ball Park Angus Beef Franks -- about 81% fat -- ground beef, fried eggs (70% fat), & Tillamook Medium Cheddar (aged cheddar that comes in a hunk, not slices or shredded, for they contain flour or something like flour to prevent caking or sticking).

Eating higher on the fat scale means I will eat less in quantities because a meal holds me longer than when I'm eating mostly chicken or fish, both low-fat.

Since I'm not tall -- 5'2" & shrinking daily -- I get by fine on about 1100 calories eating these higher-fat foods. I am keeping the cheese to 2 ounces daily, usually with ground beef as an alternative to eggs. Eggs are about the cheapest protein in the market, so I eat an average of two eggs daily. Sometimes if I'm not very hungry, I just eat 3-4 eggs cooked hard, Texas style (but without the catsup).

I'm hoping to see some weight loss in future, but for now I know I'm eating the best way for me by eating ZC. Health first, then weight loss. And if weight loss doesn't come, I'll be a perennial size 12 in jeans. That wouldn't break my heart. Years ago I wore size 16 or 18. I'm resolved never to be that large again. I'd rather be an 8 or 10 than a 12, but life isn't bad as a carnivore size 12 at age 71.

Reprinting from Pilotgal earlier in this thread, a post that says it all, in my opinion & experience ZC:

Eat Meat, Drink Water

Let the bulk of your calories come from fat.

How much do I eat? As much as you'd like.
When do I eat? When you're hungry.
When do I drink? When you're thirsty.
How much do I drink? Enough to make you not thirsty.
How do I know if I'm hungry? A steak sounds good.
How do I know if I'm not hungry? A steak sounds bad.
Is the transition tough? Yes, it varies. It's hell for some, purgatory-like for others.
How long will it last? A day. A month. Doesn't matter. It will pass.
Will I go through detox? Yes. Some don't believe in it, but expect the worst and you'll be fine.
When will it end? No telling. May come and go for a long time. Relax. It must happen. The poison is leaving your body.
If _____ eats _____ and loses weight, why can't I? Each body is different. Figure yours out. And stop obsessing.
Must I supplement? No.
What will others think? Who cares.
I know everyone here is in great health, but could you provide me with a study of _____? No.
Do I need anything other than beef and water to achieve optimal health? No.
What is my reward for being a good little boy/girl and not cheating? If that's your perspective, there isn't one. But in truth, your reward is the great health, happiness, and freedom this path provides. If you need more than that, reexamine your soul.~~Anonymous

I "stole" the following chart of % of fat (by calorie) for different forms of animal protein from the website Born to Eat Meat by Paul A. Mabry, M.D. (retired) who's lived ZC long enough to have lost all of his excess weight.

Hebrew National beef hot dogs 81%
summer sausage 80%
ground beef (73/27) 78%
Oscar Meyer bacon 77%
ground beef (80/20) 71%
aged cheddar cheese 71%
fried egg 70%
pork ribs 70%
ribeye steak 68%
sirloin steak 66%
T-bone steak 61%
pork chop 54%
roasted/baked chicken 53%

What I have learned so far about MY BODY at age 71, after living mostly on one kind or another of diet since my teen years, & trying to live ZC for health as well as to drop my excess weight ... is that I can't do it eating only meat that's 53-54% fat.

Chances are, I couldn't lose it either by specializing in all those kinds of steak I cannot afford -- ribeye, T-bone, or sirloin. They too are too low in fat %, or are likely to be for me. (If they work for your body, that's different. But all that counts for me is what works for me.)

So for me, all my options in the supermarket are the ones listed above at 70% & higher. This week I'm specializing in angus beef franks, eggs, aged cheddar, & ground beef (73/27).

Well, here I am again. Carbs are not my friends. Not even low-down low carbs a la Atkins '72 with salad. Salad is not my friend.

The scale is finally beginning to move again downward by sticking with ground beef, eggs, & chicken.

Two days in a row with a weight loss. Total 2.1 lbs lost. Eating about 940 calories, less than 1g carb, over two meals. The lower calories & carbs seem to be what's working for me, along with increased exercise.

I was eating 1200-1500 calories & up to 5g carb in the past. That seems to be too much for my small frame & age.

Hunger alone calls for about 900 calories so long as I am not mistaking thirst for hunger, or eating from desire for food rather than the need of hunger.

I'm reading through this thread. I think I'm on about page 11, and need to stop for the night, but I'm going to give this ZC a try. We had NY strip steak tonight. I took out some for supper for tonight and for lunch tomorrow and then gonna do pork steak for supper tomorrow night. I'm still feeling hungry, which I know will eventually pass, but its 10:15 p.m. How late is too late to eat for most everyone? I sometimes work until midnight and I really feel the itch to eat, but I do believe I'm truly hungry. I want more steak and its almost like a draw to get to it and eat some of it. This is the time when I would normally be fixing a huge mixing bowl full of popcorn to sit here and eat while working. I need to find something to take its place at this time of night, and just wonder about the idea of eating meat this late.