I was responding to Sheila's BDD post and I realized my answer was getting way off topic. So, I am putting it here for all of your input. I think it belongs in my journal too, so I plan on putting it there.
I was always small, growing up, but I had an idea that my sweet tooth would catch up with me one day. It started Nov. 3, 1980; the day after I got married. Within a few months I was a size bigger. I did go to WW and lose it after a few years but then I got up to about 140 and then I got pregnant and gained forty more pounds, which was a bitch to lose. I finally did it when I wanted another baby. I got down to 140 and that baby turned out to be two babies, but I still only gained forty pounds, yet again. I was happy about that and so was my doctor. The problem has been that due to the stretching that my tummy had to do to carry twins, I look fatter than I am. That was eighteen and a half years ago.
As for body image, I am the opposite of so many of you ladies. I see myself as a twelve or fourteen. That's still fat, in my mind but when I see a size sixteen me in the mirror, it shocks and hurts me. This gets more pronounced when I go on a diet and get some results. When I look down at myself, I see only the middle part that's right in front of my eyes. I don't see the sides or any profile view. Plus, in my mind, growing up, a fourteen was really big, thanks to my mom and her ongoing fight against her weight. Her big size, that her body just seemed to seek was a fourteen and she always hated it when she was that size. So, in my mind, if you're fat, you're a fourteen. I just haven't come to terms with the idea that I'm even bigger than that. The main problem this presents to me, is that I stay discouraged about my progress until I get down to a twelve or so. See? Down below a fourteen. Once I get to a twelve, the rest is bonus land.
Here's the other thing that threatens to derail me once I get over halfway to goal. I get so stoked when the scale comes down, or the tape, or the size labels in my clothes, that I really buzz on it. Then, after a day or so, the shine is off and I don't feel like I am doing so well any more. That makes it hard to stay on plan, for me. The same thing happened when I reached goal. I realized I had reached goal when we were in San Francisco for our nineteenth anniversary. Our oldest son had just turned fourteen and wore a size 30 in jeans. He had been with us on the first leg of our trip (for his birthday) and then had gone home on an earlier flight so we could enjoy our anniversary. He had left a pair of jeans in my suitcase and I accidentally put them on. I was SHOCKED when they fit. I knew I was a size six, and that was way cool, but to wear a size 30 was beyond belief to me.
After I got home, I found out that being on maintenance lacked the high of seeing more weight loss. To just settle in to a size was so mundane. I hated thinking all the time about food when I was in OWL, but at least there was a reward in it. I got new and exciting props for every milestone. Now, I had to continue denying myself the foods I wanted (for me there is no real carb ladder. I gain it back if I go over about fifty to sixty grams) but not for the same thrill. I don't know how I'm ever going to manage maintenance when I fall prey to such fatigue with thinking about not eating the things I want to eat. If I did, this is what my diet would look like.
Breakfast >> Cereal or french toast or whatever is easy. Assuming I eat breakfast at all.
Lunch >> A combo meal at a ff drive through, including french fries. I might do better just to get the fries and not the burger to go with it. I'd be just as happy.
Snack >> Some kind of sweet that would be at the store or at work in the break room.
Supper >> Regular meal with meat and veggies, but maybe including a potato of some kind.
Sunday lunches are usually at church where I would sample three or four homemade desserts. Also, all during the week, if milk was the best tasting thing with whatever we are having, then I would go for it. There's also the fact that we always ate out a lot, so an occasional pizza has to be factored in, as well.
The point of all that is to show what happens if I just eat what feels natural tp me. If I resist very much of it, I start to feel deprived. I can deal with that when it's to lose weight because of the delayed gratification. I guess if I had people constantly telling me how fantastic I looked, I could learn to go on that, but how shallow can you be? I can't expect that living a normal, healthy size should be anything other than its own reward. I shouldn't need that much ego stroking and it's not good for the soul anyway.
My problem in a nutshell is that for me, once thin gets to be the norm, lots of things taste as good as thin feels. Maybe even better.

I, like you, agree that dieting is "easier" because you see that constant reinforcement in smaller clothes, smaller measurements and compliments. I am currently struggling with a similar issue. I recently lost a little over 25 pounds of the 30-35 I was planning to lose total. The problem was that I got into a size 8 which is where I feel comfortable (and the size of most of the clothes in my closet). I WANTED to lose another 5-10 pounds and wear a comfortable size 6.

So, two weeks ago in a feeble attempt to figure out mainenance, I started eating the "old way" but was still getting on the scale every day to assess the damage. In the first week I gained a little, lost a little and stayed the same a few days. The 2nd week, I gained a lot and the net result was +10 pounds in 15 days. Obviously my attempt at figuring out maintenance was a failure LOL.

I got rid of my size 10 jeans because I knew I would do this. So, yesterday I climbed back on the "diet" with resolve to stay focused until I get to my goal then figure out maintenance. But as you can see, I am back where I feel comfortable - on a diet. I want desperately for this to be a WOE/WOL but I have absolutely no idea how to do that. Maybe we can figure it out together.

Wow, thanks for the fast reply. Well, I do know the 'old way' in its entirety will never work for me. I know that I have to keep under about sixty carb grams and that may actually be too high. I just don't know whether I can stay that strict with my whole existence. What I want to know is whether I can indulge judiciously and then atone for it for several days without gaining back?
I hate to hear people say that they had to decide whether they will "eat to live or live to eat." I hate to hear eating boiled down to just eating to live. I don't believe it's realistic unless you have severe diabetes, heart disease, or terminal cancer. I never want to be where I can't ever indulge in something for the sheer joy of the flavor.
I guess I need to face the fact that for me, maintenance must be able to absorb occasional (truly occasional) treats even if it means I have to diet the rest of the time. The treat may have to take the place of the weight loss gratification.

Boy can I relate to your post!

I know it sounds weird, but I couldn't see the fat. I felt just fine.

Then I'd see a picture or catch my reflection in a window and just be stunned. The numbers on the scale wouldn't register.

I had my breakthrough when we put a new mirror up in the dining room. The lighting is different than the bathroom (less kind) and I finally saw *me*. The fat rolls, the double chin. Seeing the number on the scale pushing 200 pounds finally sank in.

I think part of the problem is that the weight came on so slowly. 6 years ago I was 145 and looked cute. Until last summer I'd managed to keep it under 180. Then it was 181... then 183... then 186... then 178 (with great effort)... then 183 again... then 187... then 191 (!)... then 196... then 194...

I've been loosing the battle for the last 6 months and it finally fell apart fast enough for me to *see* it and to *feel* it!

I've found that I've got to play a hundred different tricks to keep myself rooted in reality. Trying on the pants that fit me well 6 years ago. Actually holding a gallon of milk to understand how much 8 pounds *really* is. Forcing myself to stand normally in front of the mirror instead of "sucking it in". Stepping in front of the camera I've avoided for all these years and accepting the picture that's produced.

But I have to be careful. I can't let myself become discouraged by what I see. I can't panic. I have to trust that, as long as I keep up this WOE, I'll get there.

As far as keeping it up after you "arrive", that's my fear, too. I've lost and regained the same 50 pounds since I was 17. Every single time I've felt pretty, I think, "I've arrived!", I start eating my weight in ice cream and stop exercising.

For me, I think I'll be alright this time. On this WOE I'm not starving. I'm not in pain. And I think that the reality that I can't go back to my "old ways" has finally set in.

I plan on keeping every fat picture I have on my bathroom wall (for awhile, at least). I can't let myself forget this time.

I can definitely relate to this. The "diet" never really ends. And yeah, there is such a thing as 'food fatigue', in that it gets old and tiresome having to keep at it, keep doing, keep monitoring etc.

I haven't exactly got the maintenance thing down pat. Technically, I 'should' be able to have a treat every now and then, or I should be able to eat a few more carbs/calories, but I just haven't figured out that level yet.

So yes, it's possible to have one little treat once in a rare while, but not all that often. Easy to have this sort of thing backfire on you.

Meanwhile, you can't just go on some sort of auto-pilot. Nope, tried that and it hasn't worked. There is now another whole new learning curve.

You'd think you'd be able to 'relax' a wee bit. But then, you also have to be vigiliant. What the hell? Vigilant, but relaxed? Very funny....

Not that funny, actually. Get a little too relaxed, and then you have to "go on the diet" again. Someone suggested in my journal awhile back that maintenance is losing the same five pounds over and over again. That sounds like "Death by a Thousand Diets" to me. No, not 'Death by Chocolate', unfortunately.

Oh well, I'll hopefully get it figured out, eventually.

In the meantime, thanks for posting this - it helped to be able to read someone's experience with this. That there isn't necessarily any 'there' there.

I think we could easily start a Sisyphus Club, named for the guy in the greek myth who had to roll the same rock up the same hill, just to have it roll back down, into eternity.
It makes me feel much more normal to know that not everyone still sees the fat self in the mirror. Thanks for all the replies.
It also doesn't help that no matter how long I low carb, I never lose my love of sweets. My sig says it all.

I can't see the fat either, not in a mirror, I walk around with a false sense of my own image, in a positive way (which is better than the alternative). The down-side is that this doesn't happen in photographs, when I see myself as I really am in photos I am crushed. I find it physically painful and nauseating, which I know is an extreme reaction. But I have no photos of myself with my children up in the house because I've been overweight since I had them. I can't bear to look at pictures of my gorgeous wonderful children if I am in the shot.

I don't want to feel like that anymore.

I was like that about some pictures we took of us last year on a trip to a coastal town, down near the tip of Texas. We were rowing kayaks and I felt so much thinner than I had been. I had been back on lc and had lost 25 pounds or so. Then, the pictures went up and I got so upset. My husband was so sweet. He told me that the life jacket was the culprit and that I didn't look like that at all. It helped that his picture didn't look like he does, either. It made it easier to believe him. We're going back next weekend. I love rowing the kayaks so there will likely be some more horrid pictures but it could be worse.

This is exactly how I feel about mirrors, and photos which I loathe having taken even if I know I'll never see them. That disconnect between self-image and photos when I do see them is exactly what I feel. A year ago last fall I went to a wedding, put on a nice outfit, make-up, styled my hair, wore jewelry... things I haven't done since I moved to the farm (lol). A friend took some pictures, saying "Wow, you look so nice!" When she gave them to me a week later, it was all I could do not to burst in tears in front of her... I looked dumpy and frumpy. Depressed me for quite a while until I shoved them out of sight. I'm 30 lbs heavier now than I was then, with weight coming on no matter what I do, so I know I look even worse.

Awwww, today just has me feeling really bad, I guess. I'm getting very tired of fighting this weight all the time.

I'd like to bump this thread. You know ladies I've been so interested in reading your thoughts on body image and weight. Yesterday at my step daughters we got to talking about diets (what a surprise) and she told me I really looked slim! I couldn't believe it because I still feel fat. I always look at my middle where I carry a few extra pounds but don't see my very very slim butt/legs/arms/face etc.

Dieting is a way of life and not a very happy one either.

Part of my dream when I hit 65 (few weeks ago) was to be able to relax about my body and weight. To just be able to eat whatever I wanted and to get fat if necessary - to be just me and not think about food or fat anymore! What a dream!!

Every time I try to eat 'normally' whatever the heck that means, I gain 5 lbs and get bloaty and hate myself. So back on meat/fat!!!!! I can't remember the last time I made a fruit pie, had a piece, then felt good. Usually I feel terrible, guilty, but I want to bury my face in the dish and eat the whole thing!!!

When I talk like this to my heavier pals they freak! They tell me I'd really be sorry if I let myself gain weight...high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease, looking horrible...the whole scary scene.

So am I crazy???? I too get sick of the whole thing and wonder what it would be like to just EAT!

Can we keep talking about this? I really need support.

When you get older, it's truly not just vanity. It will be a quality of life issue too.

For me, it stopped being a fight when I stopped fighting.

When I let go of wanting pie or cake or whatever. Because it wasn't satisfying. I only wanted more cake or pie or whatever. And it never tasted as good as I remembered, but maybe the next time...

I decided I'm not depriving myself. By passing this stuff up.

I work at a University and the new semester started today. I thought this would be a good time to get back on plan. I look at it this way...there are 16 weeks in the semester. There is a specific start date, midterm date, and end date for the semester. If I lose 1 pound a week, I will lose 16 pounds. Sounds do-able, right? The good thing is that we are only "off" for 1 week then the next semester starts. No crazy "taking the entire month of December off" nonsense.

I don't have a scale anymore. I just moved out of my home with my DS 16 and am looking at this as a fresh start. New place, new attitude, why not a new WOE too?

I think I might invest in a scale at midterm just to see what it says after 8 weeks...

My plan is to eat clean, drink lots of water, give up Diet Coke (the bane of my existence), start running again (might run/walk a 5K in late September).

Anyone else starting today???