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  #1141   ^
Old Mon, Oct-27-14, 07:00
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,953
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
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Thanks for the response Seejay

I don't really know my heart rate when walking on the street, however before the street I wore out two manual treadmills and two elliptical machines with monitors and I could rarely get my pulse higher than 140.

I guess I'm hard on the machines (or they weren't built for 4 mi/day). They seem to know when the warranty is over and that's when they break, which is why I went to the street. Shoes cost less than exercise machines and I haven't worn out the street yet.

Actually, I find the street better for my body than the elliptical machines (stronger ankles and lower back).

I don't think my heart rate gets quite that high on the street, but I don't have a monitor for that. I don't get winded and my pulse always drops quickly when I stop exercising, so measuring it when I get back in the house is worthless. (I live on a gravel road and it's about 150 feet to the paved road where I walk.)

I also put 1.5 lb weights on each wrist.

How long does it take me? About an hour. Sometimes a little longer depending on how energetic I am, and occasionally a little less.

Calculating the property lines, width of the road and shoulders in 20 laps I walk 3.9696967 miles. At one end is a hill, I don't know the grade but it looks to me like about 30 degrees from horizontal for about 200-250 feet.

Besides slow metabolism (energy efficient), I don't build up big muscles, and never have. When I was in high school my friends and I lifted weights, they all bulked up, I was strong but it didn't show.

I'm happy around 185, but if I could get between 175 and 180 I'd be happier. I think that would take care of the little belly I still have. So I might try this.

I would guess complex carbs like brown rice and oats would be good on carb days. I've never been much of a fruit eater and don't think I want to have a huge insulin spike. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

And since I usually do fewer than 20 carbs/day, what would be a good high carb target to start with?

Thanks again,
Bob
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  #1142   ^
Old Mon, Oct-27-14, 10:12
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,025
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
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Ok! Good data!

So, an hour's brisk walking daily at your weight is about 400 calories. Of those calories, 50% or 60% is glucose (depending on intensity - is the whole session as heart pounding as you can get, or only some of it?)

So that's 200 - 240 calories from glucose, divided by 4 is 50-58 grams of glucose per day that you use up just from your walk.

Until now with fewer than 20 g carbs per day, you were getting those 50 g from protein in diet via gluconeogenesis, or from your muscle. At 1400 calories you probably weren't making glucose from fat as there wouldn't be enough fat.

Me, I would ramp up gradually and try 2 weeks on an extra 30 g carb per day and have the carbs after the exercise. Just to see what happens. Or you could do the 3 days VLC like always and have a day of 120 g carbs to refill the carb stores.

Also - have you considered weight training instead of all cardio? Cardio doesn't help retain muscle as you get older. Cardio is more about using the muscle than building or reparing it. All "sawing" and no "sharpening the saw" if you can forgive the obnoxious analogy.
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  #1143   ^
Old Tue, Oct-28-14, 08:17
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,953
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
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Thanks again Seejay

There's a lot of "food for thought" in your post and I appreciate the advice. This gives me a couple of things to try.

None of the session is as heart pounding as I can get, it was when I started my first treadmill (wore two grooves in the steel plate under the belt) but by now I'd have to run to get the pulse up to a point where the heart would pound. I don't run though because I had bursitis in my hip (90% cured with diet) and high impact reminds me it was there.

I'm a pro musician, so two to 3 times a week I do "speakercise" - moving 30-40 pound speakers, gear boxes, PA amps, and lot of lighter stuff. But I realize that's not like weight training.

I'm still losing from after my carbed-out vacation, so I will probably wait until it settles down and levels off. That way I'll have more confidence that what I'm trying is producing the results I'll experience.

Right now I gained 6 on vacation and lost 11 since I got home, which gives me a net gain of 4. The first couple of days it was a pound a day, now it's settled down to about a half pound a day.

This is what encourages me to think the carb-cycling might be good for me.

Thanks again,
Bob
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  #1144   ^
Old Tue, Oct-28-14, 08:55
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,025
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-a-rama
Thanks again Seejay

There's a lot of "food for thought" in your post and I appreciate the advice. This gives me a couple of things to try.
Great, good luck.

Quote:
I'm a pro musician, so two to 3 times a week I do "speakercise"
And I loved this.

Last edited by Seejay : Tue, Oct-28-14 at 09:56.
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  #1145   ^
Old Tue, Oct-28-14, 09:28
Luckyk26's Avatar
Luckyk26 Luckyk26 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 738
 
Plan: Keto
Stats: 227.7/211.8/160 Female 5 ft 4 in
BF:
Progress: 23%
Location: New Jersey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-a-rama

Right now I gained 6 on vacation and lost 11 since I got home, which gives me a net gain of 4. The first couple of days it was a pound a day, now it's settled down to about a half pound a day.


Out of curiosity how did you feel on vacation while off plan? The reason I ask is because I've noticed for awhile now that I'm always tired, always feel like I'm on the verge of getting sick and very irritable. I thought maybe my carbs were too low so I upped them and either stalled or gained. So I had a cheat day Saturday - not crazy - but enough - and felt absolutely fantastic. been back on plan since Sunday and still feel awesome. My weight is actually lower now than it was Saturday. This may be something I have to look into.
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  #1146   ^
Old Tue, Oct-28-14, 10:23
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,370
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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So back to my post what if the benefit of cycling is derived from "feeding your gut micro biome"? Giving the little buggers more fiber and more "safe starches" that is beneficial to a diverse population, health and weight loss? That being VLC all the time reduces good bacteria and some version of cycling re-sets them? I don't have the answer, also looking for the answer, but I certainly hear much more about this angle as a criticism of staying VLC Long-term.
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  #1147   ^
Old Tue, Oct-28-14, 10:58
Luckyk26's Avatar
Luckyk26 Luckyk26 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 738
 
Plan: Keto
Stats: 227.7/211.8/160 Female 5 ft 4 in
BF:
Progress: 23%
Location: New Jersey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
So back to my post what if the benefit of cycling is derived from "feeding your gut micro biome"? Giving the little buggers more fiber and more "safe starches" that is beneficial to a diverse population, health and weight loss? That being VLC all the time reduces good bacteria and some version of cycling re-sets them? I don't have the answer, also looking for the answer, but I certainly hear much more about this angle as a criticism of staying VLC Long-term.


I think thats an individual thing. I personally see nothing wrong with VLC if you can handle it. I'm still learning about myself and how I react to certain foods. I know when I upped my carbs with different vegetables I had issues. And forget fiber - too much of it and I'm gaining like crazy. I also wonder if the lack of variety in my food was contributing to my issues. So from a psychological stand point a cheat day 2-3 times a year may help me stay VLC over the long term. I wouldn't necessarily tout this idea to everyone, but I feel pretty fortunate in the fact that I never have suffered from overwhelming cravings. Someone who does may have a harder time getting back on plan.
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  #1148   ^
Old Wed, Oct-29-14, 17:53
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,953
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckyk26
Out of curiosity how did you feel on vacation while off plan?<...snip...>

Great! I was in a foreign country (to me), walking, taking trains and buses (with a schedule written in a language I don't understand), using hand signs and a cell phone to converse with people who don't speak any more English than I do Czech, eating foreign foods, seeing things I've never seen before, and all with the love of my life who is also my best friend. The only discomfort I felt was cold, because it was a good 30 degrees (F) colder than home.

To tell the truth, I didn't have the time or self-awareness to monitor my body feelings. There was so much external stimulation that I was buzzed the entire trip.

I was in a church where the bones of over 40,000 humans decorated the walls, ceilings and everything else. Holy ground was supposed to be there and everybody wanted their remains to be there. After a while there was no place to bury them, so they became decoration, and the 'artist' even signed his name (in bones). It's a UNESCO site.

I heard the Czech Philharmonic, Prague Symphony and Prague National Opera orchestras and choruses, plus some jazz, rock, a marching band and street musicians.

I saw a half dozen or so other UNESCO sites, rode on a train not knowing if I was going to get back where I was suppposed to, and ended up fine (although I believe I should have paid more for the return trip, the conductor simply smiled as he punched the ticket).

I went to art museums, churches, synagogs, theaters, and walked where Kafka, Dvorak, Suk, Smetana, Mucha and other famous people strolled.

I saw a moving sculpture depicting Hitler and Stalin urinating on the map of Czechoslovakia along with religious sculpture of the crucifixion and Christian saints. Who had time to worry about what my innards were doing - as long as they were functioning at all, that's all that mattered.

OK I may be weird, but I'm happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
So back to my post what if the benefit of cycling is derived from "feeding your gut micro biome"? Giving the little buggers more fiber and more "safe starches" that is beneficial to a diverse population, health and weight loss? That being VLC all the time reduces good bacteria and some version of cycling re-sets them? <...>


That's very interesting to me, and more food for thought. I've been VLC since 2000, dropped to 185 and stayed there for well over a decade. Then I gained a few on my last Birthday and VLC didn't seem to work again after that. Was it my age? Or what else? I still walk almost 4mi/day, eat low carb and low calorie and then I go on vacation, gain 6 and Im home 3 or so weeks now and lost 11 to date. It's now slowed to about a half pound per day, but still going down.

I'm still investigating and appreciate all the input here - it's a learning experience for me (and I thought I knew it all <wink/grin>)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckyk26
I think thats an individual thing. <...> And forget fiber - too much of it and I'm gaining like crazy. <...> but I feel pretty fortunate in the fact that I never have suffered from overwhelming cravings. Someone who does may have a harder time getting back on plan.


I think it's amazing how different people react so differently to the same things. I need fiber to be 'regular' and it constipates my wife. We're both low carb.

I may have had cravings 14 years ago, but even though I ate some sugary-sweet desserts in the Czech Republic, I haven't had craving one since I got back (except craving for more travel).

Last year I spent 3 weeks in Spain and Morocco, ate some no-nos there too, but I didn't indulge as much and didn't gain any. I was completely stoked on Jamón ibérico, couldn't get enough of that - it's paradise for a low-carber like me!!! So the churros y chocolate caliente weren't enough to counteract the walking.

As I mentioned to Seejay (thanks again for the advice) I'm going to wait until I level out, and then do some experimenting on my own.

Until then, more research, and more of your generous and informative posts (thanks all)

Bob
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  #1149   ^
Old Thu, Oct-30-14, 11:14
cactusrose's Avatar
cactusrose cactusrose is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,798
 
Plan: JUDDD 4/30/2012
Stats: 154/141/135 Female 54.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 68%
Location: Tucson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-a-rama
That's very interesting to me, and more food for thought. I've been VLC since 2000, dropped to 185 and stayed there for well over a decade. Then I gained a few on my last Birthday and VLC didn't seem to work again after that. Was it my age? Or what else? I still walk almost 4mi/day, eat low carb and low calorie and then I go on vacation, gain 6 and Im home 3 or so weeks now and lost 11 to date. It's now slowed to about a half pound per day, but still going down.

I'm still investigating and appreciate all the input here - it's a learning experience for me (and I thought I knew it all <wink/grin>)
Bob

Okay totally off topic with VLC here...but my two cents and as you say we are all still learning to deal with weight and all the physical and psychological aspects of it depending on the diet we choose.

I have tried carb cycling, VLC, JUDDD, really every WOE imaginable and they just don't work for me long term. Continued research along with a slowing metabolism of increasing age and wanting to get in better shape, this is what I have discovered...

I have just recently stumbled upon the concept of eating more to lose weight. Basically, if we chronically eat low calorie, our bodies get used to that budget and simply cannot lose more weight. Even with increased activity/exercise we cannot continue to lose weight because our body gets used to that as well as part of the "budget". When we reset our metabolism (like being on vacation and eating whatever) we may gain but then our body feels safe enough (because we are feeding it appropriately) to lose weight again. Apparently if we take in just two hundred calories less from what we SHOULD be eating, then we can lose weight.

This is a concept discussed on the website EM2WL, that is, Eat More 2 Weigh Less. There you also can find a link to a calorie calculator to estimate what you really should be consuming for your age, height and activity level. Subtract 200 calories from that daily and you start to lose weight. Some of the before and after stories are quite impressive. I started this way of eating 2 months ago and I feel fantastic. Whereas I used to want to nap every single day I had off work, now I have tons of energy. I think I barely ate enough to keep going at that point, and always felt starved besides. And the big bonus for me is no more obsessing about food, that I am bad because I ate something. I think my metabolism is healing and so is my psyche. So the experiment continues.
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  #1150   ^
Old Thu, Oct-30-14, 16:56
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,953
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
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Thanks Barb
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  #1151   ^
Old Thu, Oct-30-14, 18:16
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
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I remember Livinright promoting the idea of eating within 200 calories of BMR when she first returned to this site almost 2 years ago. In the interim she has lost 70 or so pounds, exceeding her goal. She's been maintaining for 6 months I'd guess. I think she is a powerful example of how this idea can work.

Thanks for mentioning that website Cactus Rose. I'm going to check it out now.
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  #1152   ^
Old Fri, Oct-31-14, 07:43
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,953
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
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What's BMR?
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  #1153   ^
Old Fri, Oct-31-14, 08:11
MandalayVA's Avatar
MandalayVA MandalayVA is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,545
 
Plan: whole foods
Stats: 240/180/140 Female 63 inches
BF:too f'ing much
Progress: 60%
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-a-rama
What's BMR?


Basal metabolic rate, basically the amount of calories you'd burn if you did nothing all day.
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  #1154   ^
Old Fri, Oct-31-14, 13:11
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,953
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
Default

Thanks

Funny, I looked up BMR and found that, but I misread the post thinking BMR was shorthand for a kind of food (like HWC).

Sometimes reading things on-line is tricky.

Bob
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  #1155   ^
Old Sun, Nov-02-14, 22:26
cactusrose's Avatar
cactusrose cactusrose is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,798
 
Plan: JUDDD 4/30/2012
Stats: 154/141/135 Female 54.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 68%
Location: Tucson
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Clarification: BMR, yes basal metabolic rate. Minimal calories to survive doing nothing but sleeping 24/7. Mine is about 1300.

TDEE: Total Daily Energy Expenditure. Total calories you expend based on your sex, age, and activity level. Mine is about 1900.

Subtract 200 from that 1900, not 200 from 1300 to get a good daily calorie goal to start losing weight. We have been taught for so long to eat low cal and exercise to lose weight, which usually does work at first, but not long term. We actually need to eat more calories, and apparently more protein from what I am reading if we are to keep our muscle mass as we lose weight...and that fits in nicely with low carb...I am supposed to eat about 125-140 g protein daily.
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