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  #451   ^
Old Sat, Jan-21-17, 06:54
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 9,733
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
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Awful. Bad journalism deserves to be exposed, and there's so much of it, on any given subject. You shouldn't be able to show that a journalist hasn't done due diligence with five minutes of googling, but a lot of the time you can.

I'm a bit more of a Jimmy fan, and I like the exposure he's given to fasting and the ketogenic diet, if not always how he's gone about it. My biggest problem is over the ketogenic diet. For a full year, he measured ketones and blood glucose daily, and carefully measured his protein and carb intake. And for a full year, that worked for him with weight loss. After that, he measured less frequently, and talked about how he felt that after that year of doing things strictly, he didn't have to be so precise, he knew what a proper portion looked like, etc. I've been on and off of the sort of precise ketogenic diet that Jimmy ate over the course of that year, I'm on it now--and I can tell you, there's just no winging it. So from Jimmy we've got "I did this thing for a year, under these conditions, and then after the year I changed three or four things, and it stopped working. Therefore cortisol, stress, I must need something more vigorous to defeat my insulin resistance, etc." I'm not saying fasting is not for somebody in Jimmy's situation, I just feel that the success of his ketogenic program, when properly administered, is being put to curb prematurely. I think this probably also gives the illusion that the fasting intervention needed to get the results he needs is far more vigorous than is actually the case--certainly more vigorous than anything I've seen reported by Dr. Fung or Megan. Jimmy says he doesn't like short fasts, because the first day or so is the hardest part. A lot of people suggest that keto dieting makes intermittent fasting easier--and I find that this is the case, but that the diet has to be a bit more ketogenic perhaps than usual, very tight protein and carbohydrate limits--and dropping my protein a little bit lower just the day before makes a 24 hour fast even easier. With the caveat that I haven't actually done this that many times, because I'm pretty much getting what I want out of the diet itself. I'm thinking about experimenting with this a bit more, just to see how consistently this works.
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  #452   ^
Old Sat, Jan-21-17, 08:26
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 9,036
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/175/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 64%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I'm a bit more of a Jimmy fan, and I like the exposure he's given to fasting and the ketogenic diet, if not always how he's gone about it. My biggest problem is over the ketogenic diet.


Jimmy is an emotional eater and to my knowledge he has never addressed that. He's a religious Protestant man in Southern Culture, so until he lets go of some of that (ideal man is John Wayne in the grip of steroids) he never will, either.

I'm the opposite; solved my eating disorder by the time I was 20, and didn't figure out the physiological issues, thanks to Atkins, until a couple decades later.

Until Jimmy realizes what triggers his incredible longing for giant meals of comfort food he will continue subverting his progress. The poor man can't relax; he's certainly better off health wise than he was before, and good on him for spreading the word about low carb. But I feel for him; he's trying to solve emotional issues with food, and I know exactly how tormenting that task can be.
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  #453   ^
Old Sat, Jan-21-17, 09:49
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 9,733
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
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I don't want to go too far analyzing poor Jimmy. But I will go a little further--during his entire year on "nutritional ketosis" with measuring etc., he reported being able to eat a small square of low sugar chocolate every day. That's not something I can do, even 100 percent chocolate with no sugar or sweetener at all isn't safe from me if I'm on a more general low carb diet--but on a ketogenic diet, 20 grams carbs, about half from heavy cream, half from low carb veggies, 65 grams of protein, I don't seem to have any trigger foods, binges just don't happen. Also--I know there's the idea that sweeteners keep alive the appetite for sweets, I don't see reason to doubt that this is true for some people--but it's also very plausible that for some people, the desire for something sweet is itself a sort of symptom. On regular low carb, it takes one packet of sweetener to make my coffee taste right, with a stricter program, half a sweetener. Or I'll skip the sweetener. Diet pop also tastes sweeter. I find it interesting that one other dietary intervention gave me the same effect--a couple of years ago I ate almost nothing but bananas for a week--and instead of tasting less sweet, my diet gingerale started tasting sickly-sweet. Way too much sugar, and a ketogenic diet that massively decreased my brain's glucose requirements had a similar effect on my sweet taste threshold.

Instead of binging on peanuts or chocolate or cheese, I can have a more reasonable serving, and enjoy it more--but I'd better be in ketosis. And if I say hey, it's Christmas, and have some carbs for breakfast--the first couple bites are more satiating than usual. But I'm a binger again by the next meal, and for a couple of days afterwards, I'll cut myself a small piece of cheese and then eat a pound. A day of lower than usual carbs and protein--I'll make soup with a bunch of heavy cream, spinach, and maybe a few ounces of cheese for a few meals, sort of like an Atkins fat fast but with no calorie restriction--and the next day, I'm back on plan and things are easy again.

Every time I eat this way, I can't stop blabbing on the forum about the effect on my binge tendencies. The point this time was to suggest the possibility that a more structured ketogenic approach might have had a much stronger effect vs sugar cravings etc. for Jimmy, as well.
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  #454   ^
Old Sat, Jan-21-17, 10:35
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 9,036
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/175/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 64%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
Every time I eat this way, I can't stop blabbing on the forum about the effect on my binge tendencies. The point this time was to suggest the possibility that a more structured ketogenic approach might have had a much stronger effect vs sugar cravings etc. for Jimmy, as well.


I can state that for me, binging is not solely emotional, but it helps

I have successfully converted a craving for ice cream into Greek yogurt with frozen berries instead. Might not work for everyone; but lately, it works for me.
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  #455   ^
Old Sat, Jan-21-17, 11:35
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 9,733
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
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There is that, ketosis helps my mood. And beyond the slightly higher stress I might feel even before being around trigger foods--eating small amounts of cheese or peanut, if I'm not in ketosis, is a stressful thing to do, I'm like a lab balancing a sausage on its nose the whole time--eating the pound of cheese isn't necessarily stressful, but eating the little bit, and then abstaining is very much so.
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  #456   ^
Old Sat, Jan-21-17, 12:29
kirkor kirkor is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 134
 
Plan: IF dairy-free keto
Stats: 175/180/170 Male 71
BF:
Progress: -100%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
eating the pound of cheese isn't necessarily stressful, but eating the little bit, and then abstaining is very much so

Like the Samuel Johnson quote, "Abstinence is as easy to me as temperance would be difficult."

I think I'm definitely an "abstainer" http://gretchenrubin.com/happiness_...or-a-moderator/
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  #457   ^
Old Sat, Jan-21-17, 12:41
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Posts: 1,808
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/165/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 43%
Location: NE WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkor
Like the Samuel Johnson quote, "Abstinence is as easy to me as temperance would be difficult."


Which he likely got from St. Augustine (& possibly others - the truth tends to be repeated): "Complete abstinence is easier than perfect moderation."

I definitely do better completely abstaining - I don't have a moderation gear.
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  #458   ^
Old Sat, Jan-21-17, 12:51
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 9,733
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
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Ketosis seems to be my moderation gear--which is good, because my range of potential binge foods is pretty wide. I once binged on flax seed. If I ruled out all my binge foods I wouldn't have much left to put together a reasonably well-rounded ketogenic diet. This is still very strict, and has to be, but it's a different kind of strict.
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  #459   ^
Old Sat, Jan-21-17, 13:03
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,808
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/165/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 43%
Location: NE WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I once binged on flax seed.


I completely understand! I've binged on some strange things myself. If I'm depressed, it can be the weirdest-tasting garbage. It isn't so much the food itself, but the act of eating & feeling very full. I've also binged on meat - telling myself that at least it's free of carbs.
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  #460   ^
Old Sat, Jan-21-17, 13:12
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Posts: 2,322
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/122/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 112%
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie OFS
I completely understand! I've binged on some strange things myself. If I'm depressed, it can be the weirdest-tasting garbage. It isn't so much the food itself, but the act of eating & feeling very full. I've also binged on meat - telling myself that at least it's free of carbs.


I used to make venison jerky but found that I would binge on it. I haven't made it in a while.

Jean
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