I always have a hand in the menu planning for Thanksgiving and this year, since I have my parents both successfully low-carbing, it should not be too tough to have a good meal. We've got salad, brussel sprouts, mashed turnips, and a low-carb pumpkin cheesecake (that I'm making!) for the low-carb part of the menu - oh, and don't forget that turkey.

I'm just curious what others on TKD do during the holidays - I imagine if it were CKD it would be easier to arrange the carb-up to fall on that day. But I think I prefer the daily carb-up as opposed to the all-out carb fest. This is just the beginning of my TKD trial though. So glad you're all here because it is so helpful to get feedback from others actually working this stuff!!

It is sooooooo nice having family/friends that understand. My father in law low carbed as well so that side is covered. I doubt they will plan the menu around my eating habits but at least they understand. MY family is another matter. Half of them are Italian. They think skinny is anyone slightly thinner than Orson Welles. "Eat! Eat! You can't live on just that - have some of this.."

I too am trying TKD... not sure if I am doing it right or not, but I am trying! I do CALP on the 3 days I do not do TKD, I use 16 oz gatorade blended with 5 pkg smarties to get around 50 carbs and a protein powder to make 24 protein about 1/2 hour before my w/o... but I am a little confused on the calorie per weight thing... I don't have the book and am trying to get all the info I can...

There is a way to find out your CKD parameters. The website will figure how many calories, grams of fat and protein you should have for your weight. I think I just typed ckd parameters into my search engine and it came up. If not, I'm sure somebody out there can give you more specifics.....

Fun thread you have here..all women!

switched to TKD for the same reason : my cardio was too intense and too long to do CKD.
Have discovered a few things: it is NOT a good idea to do cardio on an empty stomach if it is not done within 15 mins of getting up and esp. not when it is longer than 30 mins.
I do just fine now on a breakfast of fried eggs & bacon (or salmon).

When I arrive at the gym (about 45 min of cycling, don't have a car), I drink my carbup drink of whey powder with quark, maltodextrin and water. Quark is something that looks like yoghurt but has as much protein as cottage cheese. It is fresher than cottage cheese.

AFTER my workout (which I often combine with cardio or a sunbench or something else that makes me stay 2 hrs) I take another bottle, but that one is filled with whey powder, quark and clotted cream plus a bit of sweetener. I cycle home at a more sedate pace, and have a meal about 2 hrs after that 2nd fatty drink.

The rest of the day I eat normal. My next meal is another 2-3 hrs after the 2nd meal . Like 8-10-12-15-18-21-24 hrs. I don't eat much in the last 3 meals, but split up.. a few meals.
I have discovered this on http://www.drsquat.com/index.cfm?ac...le&articleID=12 and it made a lot of sense.

My mini-carbs will from now on often consist out of licorice the favourite salty sweet of the Dutch. I had cramps on Monday because of a lack of the right salts.. perhaps the licorice doesn't have the right salts, but at least it is salty.
Today though I used maltodextrin and a Ca/Mg tablet..

I still dread the CU day though, I know I should do it because of leptin levels.. however, I read that above 20% BF, you only need to carb up every 7-10 days. And I guess that with TKD, that would be like once every 14 days?

Cheers,

Fietser

i have a question though, in order to get lean on this, does that mean you should shy away from saturated fats for ur fat source and choose olive oils and lean cuts of meat?? does it matter??

Adnil, I'm not familiar with CALP but here's the is the CKD Parameters web site.CKD Parameters

I've been off TKD since Thanksgiving. I figure I'll be back with a serious mindset after the holidays. Hopefully

Fietser- I might skip a CU and then if my WO is difficult I'll add a CU but I'm only doing 25 carbs. I need to be on this diet longer to get the feel for how my body uses the carbs. I only did it for a month or so and now I haven't been too faithfull to it.

Lisa

A carb up DAY? Did I hear correctly? I wasn't aware there should be one but every 14 days sounds good to me. (ok, I'm just trying to justify my Thanksgiving binge.....)

Seriously, the parameters for that cu would be found on the ckd website too, right? Currently, I am doing like Lisa - about 25 carbs/100 calories (translation - instant oatmeal) in the morning before my wo (but not before cardio, still doing that on an empty stomach) then lc (20 carbs) the rest of the day.

As appealing as cu days are, they are the reason I stopped doing a CKD. Two days of carbs was just more than I could handle.

ONE carb up day, not 2.
Again, I don't have the numbers here.. forgot where I found that table..
Ah gotcha!

http://www.theministryoffitness.com...s/article18.htm



Bodyfat Percentage Refeed Duration Refeed Frequency
> 20% 24-48 hrs 7-10 days
15-20% 24-48 hrs 5 days
< 15% 48 hrs 4 days
< 10% 48-72 hrs 3 days

This is for CKD! I do weight training 3-4 days/week but have more than 3 cardio sessons/week which all last longer than 20 mins. Adding in that I cycle to the gym and now try to do this at a high pace as well (fast = 35 mins, slow is 45 mins) this means that I need extra carbs for that ride as well, even when I take breakfast. Actually, during my ride TO the gym,the glycogen in my muscles was used plus the fat & protein in my meal.
I only ate the 25 g of carbs I took with me in the form of licorice (per 100 g: 340 kcal, 6 g of protein, 0,5 g of fat, 78 g of carbs plus a lot of salts, hopefully not just NaCl) a bit later, upon arrival, so it took a while (15 mins) before I warmed up during the 45 min spinning lesson.

AFTER the lesson I had to buy more carbs again, as i was going to do 2 exercises of weight training that I couldn't finish yesterday: calves (standing & seated) plus 20 mins of intense cardio (riding 2-3 mins each on home trainer at 85-90-95-100-105-110-115 rpm and trying to max out in last minute at 130 rpm). I used about 25 g of carbs for that exercise as well.

Went back home exhausted but happy and cycled at a sedate pace along a slightly longer but more scenic route.. during the ride I consumed my post-workout meal.. 25 g of protein (whey powder and quark) and 30 g of fat (clotted cream) with some sweetener .

The rest of the day, I'm eating at longer intervals..

I now wonder whether to go to that aquajogging class.. better not, too taxing for my dead tired legs.. you can undertrain, but also overtrain.. I also spun on Monday right after legs workout, which was fine, but now I don't think I will be fit enough for aquajogging as it is 8 hrs after returning from the gym..

Long story.. I'm a bit hyper from all the sports activities!

Fietser, trying to get in shape for long-distance cycling and losing fat at the same time..

OH, I forgot.. my carbup was supposed to be 10x50 = 500 g of carbs for CKD. But now I leave it at 500-(5x50)=250 g of carbs .. I think I'll stick to 50 g of extra carbs/workout or cardio day, not 25 g of carbs because of the length of my cardio..
If your cardio is just 30 mins, 25 g should be fine and carb up day a bit bigger in carbs..

I decided to stick to 24 hours as it is easier to not eat carbs 1 day later than just half a day.. actually it is less than 24 hrs as I do depletion work out on Sat morning and then start eating the carbs right away.. stopping around midnight.
The next day I may just eat a tiny amt of carbs if something is too delicious to throw away, but I now try to schedule my carbup shopping list in advance, rather than having to throw or give things away ..

Fietser

Yes, I understand - one carb up day, not two (I'm doing a TKD vs. a CKD because I didn't like the CKD's 2 day carb up).

I skimmed the article (I have to look like I'm actually working, here at work) - it appears to have a lot of good information.

My cardios are twice weekly, 20-30 minutes. I generally do my elliptical runner or my latest thing is my mini trampoline. I actually bought a tape (urban rebounding) and it is tougher than I thought it would be. Constant motion with less pounding on the floor. The other 4 days of the week I do an hour of weight training. (the Firm, Karen Voight) Two days total body, one day upper, one day lower.

I remember the depletion wo being part of the CKD. Am I correct in assuming I should do a similar wo before my one day cu as well?

My workouts were suffering and that too is why I decided to do TKD... I was getting weaker instead of stronger, or so it felt. I got so I felt like I couldn't do them much at all. I was doing a regular LC then. I am hoping that TKD with higher carbs on my w/o days will much improve this situation...

Yup.. I did a too severe workout (all body parts, all exercises for 1 set on 12 reps at same weight that I use for 1st set of 6 reps, am not on a BFL program anymore) on Saturday and suffered a little bit on Monday. But I have decided to just deplete myself on Saturday with cardio plus using the vibration plate (Power Plate).. the latter does give a burn and tired muscles, but is not as taxing or time-consuming...

Fietser

Ok, I read the article and could piece together how many calories, fat and protein I would need for a refeed. The only thing I saw about carbs was to eat what you thought was best without going nuts. Am I missing something?

Well, I remember from Petrizzi's wesite:

BTW, the Petrizzi calculator calculates what you should eat, but the big flaw occurs when you don't know your own bf% and use waist size instead.. when I'd be a male I'd have 26% and as a female 40%, but as it is, I have 33.5% BF, right in between!
Luckily he allows for own input...

parameters are based on: 10 gram of carbs/kg of LEAN body wt and 15% of total calories with protein and also 15% of total with fat.
This meant that carbs should be
- 10 g/kg of lean bw & 70% total .. for me 10x50 kg (now 48) = 500 g = 2000 kcal = 70%. (500/6=84 g/meal)
Prot = 15* (2000/70) = 428 kcal/4 kcal/g = 107 g of prot or 18 g prot/meal.
Fat = 15*(2000/70) = 428 kcal/9 kcal/g = 47.5 g of fat or 8 g fat/meal.
Making a grand total of 100*2000/70 = 2857 kcal/day on that Saturday.. a whopping 1000 kcal more than I usually ingest.

Now the tricky part would be TKD carb loading.. actually I hadn't calculated that for myself yet!

But let's see...
If I workout with weights on 25 g extra carbs and take 50 g on combination days (workout & intense cardio or extreme cardio) I'm taking
- 25 g on Mon :leg day
- 50 g on Tues: chest day plus intense cardio on bike..
- 50 g on Wed : spinning plus intense cardio on bike & aquajogging in evening (then no extra carbs)
- 0 g on Thurs: little bit of cardio
- 25 g on Friday: back day
- 50 g on Saturday plus carbo loading: spinning, intense cardio on bike & Power Plate (last week I still did full body training but it gave me a prob with legs on Monday.. supposedly Power Plate still gives a nice muscle burn but is not as effective as regular weight training).
The mini-carb up on Sat morning doesn't count but is added to the large carb-up.
Total: 150 g of extra carbs . Now I have only 48 kg of lean body weight, total carbs = 10g/kg = 480 g - 150 g = 330 g of carbs.
330x4=1320 kcal..
If same calc is followed, it would be like..
Protein: 15*(1320/70)= 282 kcal /4 = 71 g of prot/day
Fat: 282/9 = 31.4 g of fats..
Grand total: 100*(1320/70) = 1886 kcal. Which is just the same as on other days..

Which worries me a little bit as I thought you were supposed to overfeed on refeeding day in order to reset leptin levels (hunger hormone responsible for bingeing!)

But this is just a math experiment.. let me check Lyle McDonalds book and see what he writes on % of carbs for each day..