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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Oct-09-07, 09:11
ElleH ElleH is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 10,352
 
Plan: PP/Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 178/137/137 Female 5'6"
BF:28%
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern Virginia
Default Answer from "the man," himself, regarding protein:

I finally decided to ask Dr Eades about the protein-to-glucose thing, how much protein is too much for weight loss, etc.

Here's the answer I got from him:

Hi Elle–

I guess I need to do a post on this subject that I can refer back to because I’m asked this question constantly…and the question is always prefaced by “there is a lot of discussion about this on various low-carb BBs… You do not convert dietary protein into sugar unless a) you’re a type I diabetic or b) you aren’t getting enough glucose and the body needs to make more. If you’re on a low-carb diet you are not getting enough carbs to meet the body’s demand so some of the protein you eat is converted to glucose. But just enough to keep your blood sugar where it is supposed to be. Extra protein doesn’t automatically convert to sugar if your blood sugar level is where it is supposed to be.

So, the take home message is: don’t worry about protein converting to sugar. Eat as much as you want.

Cheers–

MRE

What a relief!! I'm now going to start eating as much protein as I want...and it's a hell of a lot more than 81 grams per day!
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Oct-09-07, 11:38
lisaz8605's Avatar
lisaz8605 lisaz8605 is offline
Taking MY Turn
Posts: 10,849
 
Plan: Intuitive Eating
Stats: 240/220.8/190 Female 65
BF:
Progress: 38%
Location: NY
Default

Elle, what a great post. Thanks for that! I've always felt limiting myself wasn't working and it's good to finally hear it from the source.

P.S. Thanks so much for stopping by my journal. I just put a huge post there today. I'm sorry I'm not around as much, but thanks for thinking of me - you're on my mind too! <hugs>
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Oct-09-07, 17:35
CindySue48's Avatar
CindySue48 CindySue48 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,816
 
Plan: Atkins/Protein Power
Stats: 256/179/160 Female 68 inches
BF:38.9/27.2/24.3
Progress: 80%
Location: Triangle NC
Default

I also asked this question!!! I guess he does need to blog on the subject.
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Oct-09-07, 17:45
ElleH ElleH is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 10,352
 
Plan: PP/Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 178/137/137 Female 5'6"
BF:28%
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern Virginia
Default

What did he reply to you, CindySue?
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Oct-09-07, 17:48
locarbbarb's Avatar
locarbbarb locarbbarb is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,732
 
Plan: <1250 cal - Flexitarian
Stats: 243/199/130 Female 5'3.5"
BF:57%/Ugh/22%
Progress: 39%
Location: Phoenix,AZ(sun's surface)
Default

If extra protein is not converted to sugar, what is it converted to...fat?...which would be stored in the liver, or elsewhere?

I will find the answer....

From Wikipedia: Excess protein consumption

Because the body is unable to store it, excess protein is broken down and converted into sugars or fatty acids. The liver removes nitrogen from the amino acids, so that they can be burned as fuel, and the nitrogen is incorporated into urea, the substance that is excreted by the kidneys. These organs can normally cope with any extra workload but if kidney disease occurs, a decrease in protein will often be prescribed. [My note: just drink lots of water.]

Excessive protein intake may also cause the body to lose calcium, which could lead to bone loss in the long-term. However, many protein powders, for instance, come supplemented with various amounts of calcium per serving size so as to counteract the calcium-loss effect.

Some suspect excessive protein intake is linked to several problems:

* Overreaction within the immune system
* Liver dysfunction due to increased toxic residues
* Loss of bone density, frailty of bones is due to calcium and glutamine being leached from bone and muscle tissue to balance increased acid intake from diet (blood pH is maintained at around 7.4). This effect is not present if intake of alkaline minerals (from fruits and vegetables, cereals are acidic as are proteins, fats are neutral) is high. In such cases, protein intake is anabolic to bone.

Many researchers think excessive intake of protein forces increased calcium excretion. If there is to be excessive intake of protein, it is thought that a regular intake of calcium would be able to stabilize, or even increase the uptake of calcium by the small intestine, which would be more beneficial in older women.

So, eat protein, drink a lot of water, eat a lot of vegetables and take some calcium.

Last edited by locarbbarb : Tue, Oct-09-07 at 18:19.
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Oct-10-07, 13:57
john8750's Avatar
john8750 john8750 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 182
 
Plan: induction
Stats: 330/325/230 Male 75
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Griffith park, CA
Default

Thanks. Great info for all of us.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Oct-10-07, 15:13
ElleH ElleH is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 10,352
 
Plan: PP/Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 178/137/137 Female 5'6"
BF:28%
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern Virginia
Default

It could be that in the presence of excess insulin, that protein is converted to sugar or fat, but we have to keep in mind that what happens in the presence of insulin, does not neccesarily happen in a low insulin state. Fat is a perfect example of that. We all know that excess fat is immediately and without conversion stored as fat in the presence of high insulin, however in low insulin, it is not.

That wikipedia answer, I'd be willing to bet, is pertaining to a high insulin state, such as the normal diet would be. Wikepedia is not my go-to source for information.

I did pose that question to him in his blog, what happens to the excess protein, and the funny thing is, he answered every question posted yesterday...except mine. It still shows waiting for moderation. I think he musta missed it.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Oct-10-07, 15:21
Dharmalisa's Avatar
Dharmalisa Dharmalisa is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 102
 
Plan: Flexible
Stats: 175/153/140 Female 66.5"
BF:yes
Progress: 63%
Location: Colorado
Default

I'm glad I saw this thread. The idea that up to 50% of protein we eat is converted to glucose is one of those myths that I see thrown around a lot. I've been afraid to eat "too much" protein, but I'm not always feeling full, and I don't want to limit calories too much cause that's gotten me in trouble before. I've tried adding extra calories of fat, while still keeping carbs and protein low, but it hasn't worked well for me.

I'm anxious to see Mike's response, Elle.
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Oct-10-07, 19:34
locarbbarb's Avatar
locarbbarb locarbbarb is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,732
 
Plan: <1250 cal - Flexitarian
Stats: 243/199/130 Female 5'3.5"
BF:57%/Ugh/22%
Progress: 39%
Location: Phoenix,AZ(sun's surface)
Default

Quote:
from Elle: That wikipedia answer, I'd be willing to bet, is pertaining to a high insulin state, such as the normal diet would be.
I don't know what state of insulin they were thinking of. I found several sites that were prejudiced against "more than the 'recommended' amounts of protein."

I didn't put links to them, because they seemed so alarmist. Wikipedia seemed the most neutral.

From what I've seen on this forum, when you eat what you really want, whether it be more fat, more protein, or even more carbs as per each individual, the weight comes off! Combine that with a calorie deficit, of course.

We are all different in that regard, and what works for one person might not work for another. If you are satisfied, meaning feeling sated, with what you're eating, you will stay on your plan. The feeling to over-indulge will leave, and the weight loss will follow.

Ya gotta eat what ya gotta eat!

I wouldn't wait for anyone to tell me what to eat, really. I'd just try it, and see how I feel. Elle, don't be afraid. If you want more protein, go ahead. I suppose the worst that could happen is that you won't lose weight, or you might even gain a pound. You might lose weight, or you might find that you really don't want all that protein, after all. Or you might just want more on occasion.

At least you'll have found out for yourself, and you can adjust things accordingly. Your body will tell you when you've found the right amount. Have faith!
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Oct-10-07, 22:24
CindySue48's Avatar
CindySue48 CindySue48 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,816
 
Plan: Atkins/Protein Power
Stats: 256/179/160 Female 68 inches
BF:38.9/27.2/24.3
Progress: 80%
Location: Triangle NC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElleH
What did he reply to you, CindySue?
Yep...and I posted it to my team.

I'm on SparkPeople and have a team for women over 50 and low carb. There are several members that are either diabetic or pre-diabetic, and they all have been warned about eating too much protein. Not due to the "strain on kidneys" but because of blood glucose levels.

Dr Mike has always answered my questions....and almost always makes a comment to my non-question comments.
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, Oct-10-07, 22:34
CindySue48's Avatar
CindySue48 CindySue48 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,816
 
Plan: Atkins/Protein Power
Stats: 256/179/160 Female 68 inches
BF:38.9/27.2/24.3
Progress: 80%
Location: Triangle NC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElleH
I think he musta missed it.
It could be lost, but more likely he is going to either post a long reply or even do a post on it. He mentioned in a recent post that there were some comments he was going to keep until he could give a proper response.
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Oct-11-07, 04:47
dane's Avatar
dane dane is offline
muscle bound
Posts: 3,535
 
Plan: Lyle's PSMF
Stats: 226/150/135 Female 5'7.5"
BF:46/20/sliced
Progress: 84%
Location: near Budapest, Hungary
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dharmalisa
The idea that up to 50% of protein we eat is converted to glucose is one of those myths that I see thrown around a lot.
Just to clarify, protein can be converted to glucose--58% of it. That part is not a myth:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Eades in Elle's 1st post
You do not convert dietary protein into sugar unless a) you’re a type I diabetic or b) you aren’t getting enough glucose and the body needs to make more. If you’re on a low-carb diet you are not getting enough carbs to meet the body’s demand so some of the protein you eat is converted to glucose.
Not a problem--it's part of the adaptations your body makes to low carbing.
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Oct-11-07, 08:37
ElleH ElleH is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 10,352
 
Plan: PP/Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 178/137/137 Female 5'6"
BF:28%
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern Virginia
Default

What is so magic about 58%, that's the part I don't get?

Anyway, I think the reason I'm "afraid" to eat as much protein as I "want" isn't b/c I'm afraid of the effects. Dr A talked about people in his first book that ate pounds of meat a day and had no problems. And these were not weightlifters or big-time exercisers or manual laborers...they were regular people with big appetites.

I'm "afraid" to eat as much as I "want" b/c of the first time I tried Atkins back in the mid 90's. I ate 2 ounces of protein for breakfast, then 8 ounces for lunch and 8 for dinner. Plus a small salad for lunch and dinner. I lost a lot of water weight initially, but then nothing after that for weeks and weeks.

I started losing once I switched to PP and stuck religiously to my protein minimum, despite lots of hunger. I was better able to deal with hunger back then, for some reason.

But what I have to remember is that I weighed less "then" than I do "now!"

If I could eat 18 ounces of protein per day and get back to 130 or 135 (what I weighed then) or even 140 (what I would settle for now), I would consider that a success.

So I guess I should try it.
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Oct-11-07, 09:07
Dharmalisa's Avatar
Dharmalisa Dharmalisa is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 102
 
Plan: Flexible
Stats: 175/153/140 Female 66.5"
BF:yes
Progress: 63%
Location: Colorado
Default

Elle you and I have similar stats. How tall are you?? I want to get to 140 and am really struggling. I got down to 136 last year by eating 900 calories a day for 3 months. Then all h3ll broke loose. Hair fell out, hormones went berserk, had insomnia, anxiety, etc etc. So I gained back almost all I had lost over the next 3 months. Now, I can't seem to lose.

I'm reading "Good Calories, Bad Calories", and the studies he brings up indicate that people lose the most weight when they restrict carbs, but eat protein and fat to satiety. I'd love to think that would work for me, but I too am afraid to try it. I'm counting calories right now, and am only down one pound in 2 weeks eating an average of 1500 a day. Which is considered low calorie. But hey, I really don't have anything to lose by trying. What I'm doing isn't exactly working, although I probably haven't given it near enough time yet.
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  #15   ^
Old Thu, Oct-11-07, 13:35
ElleH ElleH is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 10,352
 
Plan: PP/Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 178/137/137 Female 5'6"
BF:28%
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern Virginia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CindySue48
Yep...and I posted it to my team.

I'm on SparkPeople and have a team for women over 50 and low carb. There are several members that are either diabetic or pre-diabetic, and they all have been warned about eating too much protein. Not due to the "strain on kidneys" but because of blood glucose levels.

Dr Mike has always answered my questions....and almost always makes a comment to my non-question comments.


Well, what did he say???? He still hasn't answered.
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