I'm thinking a mini-study or tapering off process would allow some testing cuz in the back of my head is forming the notion that
- FF forces ketosis restart using bodily body fat as insufficient energy intake (kickstart)
- CB of course tells metabolism no famine in offing so pending or slight drop, if any, is reversed
- M&VF (meat & veg fast or Stillman) drops energy intake again, with no protein loss yet triggered (it may well take longer than ketosis start) and no appetite issues (enhances or triggers glucagon/ketosis cycle whilst allowing gluconeogenesis hence no hunger)
etc. etc.

Soooooooo I'm thinking a mini study 1 week with 2 M&VFs (no FF) and with CB target set to 13Xgoal and see what happens.

Comments? Should this be in the main thread?

Will you be posting a 'coles notes version' of the study? I've been reading along and picking up ideas here and there for later on down the road (and for now). A set of guidelines or some kind of FAQ would be very helpful.... of course that would entail more work ... just an idea.

Nat

I'm not sure about FF kick starting ketosis because - according to Dr. A - you have to be in ketosis already for it to work.

Now my danger spots are obvious to me.

I'm thinking of doing two all protein days a week, but something like an all-salmon or all-beef day to keep the calories up.

Nat, I am thinking that since everyone ate so differently - especially on the two fast days - that they can do a synopsis on what worked and what didn't work. For example, some eat dairy and some eat little. Some eat processed meat and some don't. Some used a salad and SF Jello on fast days and some didn't. You could pick the person whose plan most closely resembles yours.

Karen

I've been thinking about FF. What I think it does is gets the water out of the fat cells.

In review, there were two "whooshes" that seemed directly related to it. The first was during the trial week and the second during the second week. Each week, 4 pounds of water was dumped, all during one day.

So, I'm thinking that FF may be more useful every 2-4 weeks or so.

Karen

I can't wait to read this thread as it developes. I think the information gathered as a result of this 4 week study will be invaluable. Thanks to those who participated and are sharing.

Nat

(A) I've already rummaged up an Excel spreadsheet that tracks daily weights/kCals/kCalsPerPound and averages these numbers weekly ... just to see if trends would show up. Anyone who wants one, just PM me OR I could collect the numbers from y'all, plug 'em in and see if some kind of spiffy chart can be produced to get a visual ...

(B) Want to compare, Karen? I'll send you mine if you send me yours , spreadsheet that is!

Sure! I've got week one done so far. As usual, I'm swamped.

Karen

I'll be posting my last day's stuff tonight or tomorrow (depending on my MasterCook not biting it right now) and then messing about with the spreadsheet.

I'll send you a copy shortly thereafter...

PS: have I told you how much I envy you those big walk-in refrigerators?

AVERAGES over the 4 weeks of the Study Period:
kCals = 1915
Pro g = 133.4 or 27.9%
Fat g = 133.4 or 62.8% (yes, really, odd isn't it?)
Carb g = 44.1, Fiber g = 8.7, t.f. Net Carb g = 35.4 including every coffee carb g so 855.6mg caffeine
Starting Weights (day before) = 191.5, (day 1) = 191.5
Ending Weights (day 28) = 182.5, (day after) = 183
NET LOSS = 8.5 wow, I'm surprised and very pleased
OR 4.4% of starting weight
OR 23.5% progress to goal

Oh my. After these 8-9 months of steady gain despite "legal" and experienced LC (quit smoking, I did), I had begun to despair of ever getting back to where I was ... loose size 12s and 150-155 pounds on a 5'6.5" heavy frame.

I now have been effectively reminded of what I've been suggesting to others these past 3 years: go back to basics, count everything and stop guessing, remember to Eat Til Not Hungry is NOT the same as Eat All You Want AND watch out for "SNEAKY CARBS" and DAIRY (often the same thing!).

I fully agree with Doreen on the DISCIPLINE issue. This whole project has reminded me of the absolute necessity to make the time to plan, make the time to record, and keep oneself within certain constraints. LC is only REALLY easy for those with a pretty "normal" metabolism to start with, and most of those folks aren't insulin resistant, glucose intolerant, etc.

PS: I've vowed to continue logging my intake and doing basic Atkins/Somers (strictly Atkins during the week, with some Somers permitted on weekends) as "Regular LC". I'm still cogitatin' on Stillman vs. Fat Fast.

It was taped in November of last year. I didn't even know it was airing tonight!

Great stats for the four weeks!

Karen

Did some editing there, but Karen's referring to a fine episode of The Great Canadian Food Show on the Food Network Canada (which I find fascinating and watch over dinner or any other occasion when I can do one thing and watch some TV at the same time).

It was VERY interesting and now I have to get my butt over to Vancouver and check out The Gourmet Warehouse, I HAVE to!

Karen, I've been totally unable to find in any of my Atkins books (DADR, DANDR, DANDR Revised, DAAAR...) any indication that ketosis is required for Fat Fast to be triggered or work or whatever ... can you tell me where this info comes from? My readings last night infer rather more that those that simply cannot get into ketosis/lipolysis (the seriously metabolically resistant, a very small percentage per Atkins) may find the Fat Fast helpful. He's also pretty strong on discouraging "impatient" losers to use the Fat Fast for more than illustrative or proof purposes, and also doesn't recommend it in any (unmonitored) circumstances for weight loss for more than 5 days...

Ultimately, I get from Atkins the idea that the Fat Fast really is a kickstart for ketosis. I do agree with you that it is helpful in loosing (yes, loosing vs. losing) the water from the cells...

Thank you all for sharing your experiences on this study.

I would like to make a proposition, suggestion or challenge.

If any, or all, of you would like to road-test it, I have been re-working and fine-tuning my own diet plan, and I reckon anyone should be able to lose 1-2 pounds per week on it. Joe has seen an earlier version of this, but I have added refinements since then.

Don't be alarmed because of the menus I choose for myself - I deliberately confine my own eating to a small portion of the foods I allow overall.

If anyone is interested, I will e-mail them a copy of the diet plan for viewing. I am fairly confident about this, as it has worked elsewhere, but in view of your above experiment, which reflects the diversity of your own tastes and preferences in eating and dieting, it would be interesting to see a comparison of user-satisfaction and, crucially, eventual weight-loss.

Any interest in this?