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  #16   ^
Old Tue, Mar-21-17, 16:08
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Posts: 2,765
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/122/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 112%
Location: Vermont
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Conveying factual information is not the point of the post. Asserting not only the superiority of a vegan diet and those that eat it but the grossness of low carb eating (soaking food in oil) and those that eat this way is the point.

Jean
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  #17   ^
Old Tue, Mar-21-17, 17:21
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,188
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
Conveying factual information is not the point of the post. Asserting not only the superiority of a vegan diet and those that eat it but the grossness of low carb eating (soaking food in oil) and those that eat this way is the point.

Jean

I don't know how I missed that. You're right, that's exactly what it looks like to me. I wish they wouldn't do that. Instead I wish they'd blame SAD, like we do on this forum all the time. I mean, all the alternatives, aren't they all alternatives to SAD and the official guidelines? That's the bad guy here.
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  #18   ^
Old Wed, Mar-22-17, 03:17
ThatChick ThatChick is offline
New Member
Posts: 7
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 203.3/181.7/180 Female 5'7"
BF:GF :)
Progress: 93%
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As a former vegan and current vegetarian, I can assure you real vegans and vegetarians do not eat meat, otherwise they are by definition not vegan/vegetarian. I am saddened by the ad hominem attacks going on in this thread, while there wasn't even one in the vegan post. That post only mentions that the LC diet didn't work for one person over an unknown amount of time, but the vegan diet did. I mean any LC supporting website would be happy to post that exact same post if it was praising LC instead of a vegan diet, right? They are happy with their lifestyle and feel they are doing what is best and want to promote that. That does not make them evil or bad people, just humans who want to promote what they feel is best in the same way we do.
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  #19   ^
Old Wed, Mar-22-17, 04:12
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,607
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
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All the vegans and vegetarians I know are in my own family, my sister's lacto-ovo vegetarian, her daughter's vegan. They don't judge me, I don't judge them, we might disagree on some things.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...4b0f009905272a8

Somebody posted a question about squash in another thread, that got me wondering about calories in today's chickens. Data bases we get our nutritional information from depend on the food samples used--a crop of unusually sweet oranges, or relatively lean meat could really throw things off. Out side of purified diets, we have largely the illusion of precision. There's also the question of what "yield after cooking" means. If I cook a few chicken leg quarters, the presumption is that I won't eat the fat that cooks off--that's not a safe assumption to make, in my case.

Quote:
Chicken may not be the lean meat you thought it was

“The ever-increasing genetic pressure to improve growth rates and breast yields of broiler chickens has led to a high incidence of several abnormalities in breast muscles,” reports a study published in World’s Poultry Science Journal.

In particular, muscular myopathies called white striping and wooden breast are now widespread—causing severe product quality and nutritional problems that are getting worse by the year. For example, a 2012 study showed 55.8 percent of broilers impacted by white striping. By 2016, those rates had skyrocketed to over 96 percent.

So what does this mean for consumers? These conditions create necrotic lesions, fibrosis and lipidosis in muscle fibers, causing collagen and fat deposits to develop instead of healthy muscle. When comparing normal to severely affected meat, there are large degradations in nutritional values—including a 224 percent increase in fat content and a nine percent decrease in protein content. Further, in 100 grams of meat affected with white striping, the percentage of calories from fat rose from seven percent to 21 percent.
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  #20   ^
Old Wed, Mar-22-17, 04:54
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 9,793
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/162/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 83%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatChick
As a former vegan and current vegetarian, I can assure you real vegans and vegetarians do not eat meat, otherwise they are by definition not vegan/vegetarian. I am saddened by the ad hominem attacks going on in this thread, while there wasn't even one in the vegan post.


It is probably because we low carb/Paleo folk are under constant attack by militant vegans. A particular point was when Dr. Atkins died from slipping on the ice and sustaining a head injury; the Center for Science for the Public Good (vegan doctors, I gather) stole confidential medical information and used it to imply Dr. Atkins was very fat when he died, and thus trying to discredit his life's work.

Or the period where several vegan bloggers revealed they now had to eat meat for health reasons, and then had to shut down their sites because of death threats. Before doing so, several of them shared emails they got from people who stated, "Yes we all eat meat but shut up! It's supposed to be a secret."

Even though vegans and vegetarians get a lot more social approval and outright admiration than low carbers do, they seem to be highly defensive and prone to making wild claims about things that turn out not to be true.

We even have a sub-forum with a live thread for vegetarian low carbers right now.

We're just sharing our experiences. It's not our fault a lot of them haven't been good

Last edited by WereBear : Wed, Mar-22-17 at 08:05.
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  #21   ^
Old Wed, Mar-22-17, 07:53
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Posts: 2,765
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/122/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 112%
Location: Vermont
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Perhaps the poster referred to in this thread only intended to report on what worked for her but she did misrepresent low carb eating (it's not high protein). And, as Were Bear points out, there is a context of demonizing, misrepresentation and abuse by the vegan community of the low carb community. This context does not disappear just because the poster does not reference it specifically. I thought that her characterization of the way she was eating (soaking her food in oil) not only misrepresented how low carbers tend to eat, myself included, but was also worded in a way to elicit disgust. I agree that we should be careful about how we speak of one another but it is not surprising that people who eat low carb find this woman's claims hard to believe. Theses claims just do not jibe with the experience of most of the people who frequent this site.

Jean
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  #22   ^
Old Wed, Mar-22-17, 11:07
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,915
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/165/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 43%
Location: NE WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Jor
For one thing, if she's "soaking food in oil" then I don't see any way she was only eating a thousand calories a day. Likewise, that's like three or four chicken thighs.

So, you know....


I was thinking that, too. Fat has a lot of calories, even seed oils do. I found out I couldn't have unlimited fats & expect to lose weight. Wish I would have figured that out sooner.
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  #23   ^
Old Wed, Mar-22-17, 17:55
Justin Jor Justin Jor is offline
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Posts: 179
 
Plan: Bernsteinish
Stats: 314/231/199 Male 6'1
BF:
Progress: 72%
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I mean....a tablespoon of oil, which isn't that much oil...is like 140 calories.
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  #24   ^
Old Thu, Mar-23-17, 06:04
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 9,793
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/162/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 83%
Location: USA
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And real low carbing is pretty savvy about good fats. She doesn't say "soaked in olive oil" which is one of the few oils low carbers would be using.
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  #25   ^
Old Thu, Mar-23-17, 06:58
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is online now
Posts: 1,623
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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I think the single element in my WOE that gives people pause is the unflinching consumption of fats. It took me a long time to remove my tendencies about fat due to the relentless brainwashing over many years. I have to remember that many (the majority likely) still feel this way.
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  #26   ^
Old Thu, Mar-23-17, 07:48
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 3,585
 
Plan: ~25NC/IF
Stats: 342.2/191.6/000 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 44%
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Raises hand here to Rob, "Me too" - Healthy or Not - it took a few months go get over that hurdle. When I did, I did it with abandon and got the result I was looking for; Low Continuous Appetite and Abundant Energy - loss of weight was a by product in my opinion. Vegan sat fat's could be Coconut Oil and Palm Oil - I eat plenty of those.

Is eating all this saturated fat better for my health in the long run rather than just plain old BEING fat? - I will never be able to know. I do know that I am better able to enjoy life today and help others more better by being more able.

Last edited by thud123 : Thu, Mar-23-17 at 07:53.
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  #27   ^
Old Thu, Mar-23-17, 08:01
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 9,793
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/162/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 83%
Location: USA
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I was a dedicated low fat (25 grams a day!) and exercise (1.5 hours a day, every day!) devotee. And I was able to stay a size 12 that way, against what would have otherwise been a relentless piling on of weight. So I figured "they" were right, and "it" worked.

But then I had a kidney artery unkinked, and a long convalescence to let my sky high blood pressure stabilize, and it all came back with new friends.

Even when I got better, I had lost my ability to make this work. It was a relentless struggle until I discovered Atkins. And FAT.
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  #28   ^
Old Mon, Apr-03-17, 07:53
HappyLC's Avatar
HappyLC HappyLC is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,771
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 212/167.6/135 Female 66.75
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Long Island, NY
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Sorry to have abandoned the thread I started. I had a keyboard problem - my letter "t" stopped working. Made typing a little tough, lol.

Anyway...the line about soaking food in oil didn't even register with me when I first read that "testimonial". I don't understand what food you could possibly soak in oil, except maybe salad. So, as Justin Jor pointed out, if you're eating that much oil AND fatty chicken thighs, your calories have got to be over 1,000 per day.

Also, cotonpal noted that the tone was also "worded in a way to elicit disgust."

Both those things lead me to believe the whole thing is made up. But thanks to everyone who dissected it and found possible explanations. I always learn something new from the generous members here.
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