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  #751   ^
Old Sun, Mar-19-06, 07:37
ChicknLady's Avatar
ChicknLady ChicknLady is offline
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Posts: 2,046
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 153/150/140 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 23%
Location: Pennsylvania
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I finally had an opportunity to read the Stefansson articles that Bear gave a link to a while back : I think if everyone here read these writings, they might understand a little better what Bear has been trying to explain. It definately explains some of the "culturalization" he's been trying to get across, at least to me. One group of Eskimoes that Stefansson lived with ate almost nothing but boiled fish for most of the year, and Steffanson himself adopted this diet, thinking at first how horrible it would be to eat the same thing, every meal, day after day, year after year. But, after a period of weeks or months, he came to look forward to, and enjoy, these bare meals. Even the salt addiction eventually passed.

The problem we have today is the temptation of other foods constantly around us. Stefansson referred to this, describing the "adaptation" period of other non-native exploreres, and how during the first weeks on just seal or whatever they would have gladly returned to 'civilized' food if they could have.

Now maybe if we were to be dropped off at a remote lake in Canada with nothing but a fishing pole for a month, we'd make it over the "hump". The carnivore-diet 'boot camp'.
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  #752   ^
Old Sun, Mar-19-06, 09:43
TwilightZ's Avatar
TwilightZ TwilightZ is offline
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Posts: 359
 
Plan: meat and meat by-products
Stats: 270/191/150 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 66%
Location: TwilightZone (Phila, PA)
Default Proof that fats are not the only fuel

Bear's way of eating is intruguing and many of his arguments have merit. But one claim in particular that he made, that of fats being the only fuel burned, must be false. The proof is simple. If it were true there would always be ketones in practically everyone's urine. But clearly ketones in appreciable amounts only appear when carbs are limited--that's when fat burning begins.
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  #753   ^
Old Sun, Mar-19-06, 14:08
CGraff CGraff is offline
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Posts: 35
 
Plan: my own
Stats: -/-/- Female 67 inches
BF:
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin
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theBear, I'm new to the low carb forum but I have read this thread from the beginning and I just want to say a BIG THANK YOU to you for sharing. I have learned SO much. glad I don't have to eat veggies any more! I would also like to thank PaleoDeano for telling me about this forum.
Carolyn
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  #754   ^
Old Sun, Mar-19-06, 14:16
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JandLsMom JandLsMom is offline
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Posts: 1,719
 
Plan: atkins induction
Stats: 330/330/165 Female 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Illinois
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ChicknLady,
i read the article also and i must say it was quite eye opening. I do believe i am "accustomed" to eating a certain way..and that it IS hard to get over. I tried the M/E fast and couldnt make it through the 4th day! Bear has been trying to figure out why his WOE doesnt work for most people over the long haul..thats why..we are just so USED to eating our veggies and fruits..i just cant imagine completely giving them up. That is why Atkins works well for most of us..it leaves us with atleast a small amount of carbs. Most of us will never become completely meat, egg and cheese eaters for life. After this thread and the links to the other articles i am determined to eat LESS carb and more meat and fat for life..but if i am honest with myself, i doubt i will do it as religiously as Bear, and i doubt i even could!
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  #755   ^
Old Sun, Mar-19-06, 15:30
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MissSherry MissSherry is offline
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Posts: 3,066
 
Plan: M&E Maintenance <5carbs
Stats: 170/109.5/115 Female 5'1"-5'2" w/ shoes
BF:31.1%/21.3%/19%
Progress: 110%
Location: By the beach in Florida
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I had no problem giving them up AND I loved veggies. I just feel better with none so I wonder why I am diff????
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  #756   ^
Old Sun, Mar-19-06, 20:27
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Bear, quick question. This may be slightly off-topic... but, if it is OK to eat the same type of meat all the time, and this will still give all the nutrients one needs, would the same work for cats? I have two cats who are 19 months old and have eaten nothing but raw meat since day one. Currently I take chicken leg quarters and some hearts and gizzards and livers to a processor who grinds all this stuff up very coarsely. This is the main food I feed my cats, and they love it. They eat every bit, and I think the skin, with all its fat, is a good addition to their diet. Raw cat food email lists have stated that a "variety" of different animals is beneficial and perhaps necessary. I wonder, after reading what you (and Stefansson) have stated if this is really true. Do you think they would get all the nutrients they ever need if they simply ate chicken and no other food?

As far as them getting "bored" with that... cats will develop what people call "food addiction"… which is probably a bizarre oxymoron, because what is really going on is just the opposite, and that is they simply get use to eating certain meat and are fine with it... but, cats will just keep eating the same thing over and over, and if you try and give them something new, they will act "funny" about it for a while, till they get use to eating it. What I am saying is, if eating nothing but this ground chicken is going to give them great health, then I would love to just feed them this and nothing more. There are others on the raw cat food email lists that do this, and their cats seem to be fine with it. What do you think of this, if you have an opinion at all? I would have posted this in the Paleo Pets thread, but wanted your opinion specifically.
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  #757   ^
Old Sun, Mar-19-06, 20:50
BetyLouWho's Avatar
BetyLouWho BetyLouWho is offline
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Plan: between plans again
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 5' 9"
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I don't think that we are carnivores. I believe that we are omnivores. We certainly have big brains that can compensate for our lack of talons or claws, and lack of speed, and carnivore's teeth and all of that stuff. But what if we are adapted to enjoy fruit like a great ape is?


A lot of folks in this carnivore thread are in agreement that eating veggies and grains "off the plain" might be all about what one might do in a famine situation if there was no other food around. Correct me if I am wrong, but don't great apes choose fruit above all else if fruit is available?

Who doesn't like fruit? Who doesn't like attractive colours, sweet smells and flavours? Y'all can tell me that you don't like asparagus, but I'd like to bet that fruit has to call to you sometimes, no???

A lot cultures and religions of humans seem to have adopted periods of fasts or mono-eating or perhaps some sort of similar annual cleansing rituals. Some might say that a meat only diet may be toxic without such a cleanse and may lead to cancer and other health issues.

I betcha (personally) that I could last on meat only, only if it was a seasonal thing. I am an omnivore. But when the fruit is ripe, I'm sitting in a tree stuffing my face and enjoying the health benefits.

That's just me. Carry on.
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  #758   ^
Old Sun, Mar-19-06, 20:57
Frederick's Avatar
Frederick Frederick is offline
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Posts: 1,512
 
Plan: Atkins - Maintenance
Stats: 185/150/150 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BetyLouWho
But what if we are adapted to enjoy fruit like a great ape is?


Why do you suspect this may be true?
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  #759   ^
Old Sun, Mar-19-06, 21:09
BetyLouWho's Avatar
BetyLouWho BetyLouWho is offline
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Plan: between plans again
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 5' 9"
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Hey Frederick. This is why. Just an opinion. Not here to change the world.

http://www.vegsource.com/earthsave/...es/1000128.html


http://www.anthro.psu.edu/walker.html
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  #760   ^
Old Sun, Mar-19-06, 22:10
Kinume's Avatar
Kinume Kinume is offline
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Posts: 88
 
Plan: protein and fat
Stats: 181.5/154/139 Female 62 inches
BF:38.5%/34.8%/24%
Progress: 65%
Location: Vancouver,BC
Default nooB lurker...

Hi Everyone! I've been lurking for awhile and have been greatly entertained by this thread. I just had to respond to this one though...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetyLouWho
..but don't great apes choose fruit above all else if fruit is available?


I have a friend who, just today, had the choice between a banana and a piece of pizza to even out her sudden blood sugar drop.

She chose the pizza.

Maybe apes would choose the pizza too if it was readily available?
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  #761   ^
Old Sun, Mar-19-06, 22:25
BetyLouWho's Avatar
BetyLouWho BetyLouWho is offline
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Posts: 3,980
 
Plan: between plans again
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 5' 9"
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Quote:
Maybe apes would choose the pizza too if it was readily available

Oh heck, so would I! This is why I became 100 pounds overweight! No argument there.
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  #762   ^
Old Sun, Mar-19-06, 23:55
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Maybe apes would choose the pizza too if it was readily available?
Maybe apes would choose banana splits... or cheese cake... or butterscotch malts... or a seafood pasta dish?! Wow!... have we all lost our minds?!!! If so... let's eat CARBS till the cows come home, and then blame it on what other animals would "choose" to do. NO NO NO... WE choose to eat all this JUNK! There is NO REASON other than using food like a DRUG! We smoke and drink and do drugs out of cultural reasons... now, would an ape do that? Maybe they would smoke crack if it were "readily available"? WHAT DOES THIS have to do with what this thread is about?! IMHO we eat food that is non-food/poison simply for the same reasons we do any other cultural thing... and sometimes culture takes a turn for the worse when it comes to diet, or other aspects of living. Sorry, but I am getting pretty tired of this type of "logic" being used in this thread!
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  #763   ^
Old Sun, Mar-19-06, 23:59
Kinume's Avatar
Kinume Kinume is offline
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Posts: 88
 
Plan: protein and fat
Stats: 181.5/154/139 Female 62 inches
BF:38.5%/34.8%/24%
Progress: 65%
Location: Vancouver,BC
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The point I was TRYING to make was that we can't just assume an ape will eat fruit over and above anything else just because it MIGHT be a healthier alternative. It just happens to be sweeter than your basic fire-ant.. (big assumption there I know..).. and probably a lot more convenient as it doesn't run away..
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  #764   ^
Old Mon, Mar-20-06, 00:18
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinume
The point I was TRYING to make was that we can't just assume an ape will eat fruit over and above anything else just because it MIGHT be a healthier alternative. It just happens to be sweeter than your basic fire-ant.. (big assumption there I know..).. and probably a lot more convenient as it doesn't run away..
Right... but what does an ape's diet have to do with a human's diet? Or any other animal's diet? The other animals don't have the cultural influences that we human's do. What we eat is based in our culture. That is the point I (and others on this thread) are TRYING to make!
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  #765   ^
Old Mon, Mar-20-06, 00:19
Kinume's Avatar
Kinume Kinume is offline
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Posts: 88
 
Plan: protein and fat
Stats: 181.5/154/139 Female 62 inches
BF:38.5%/34.8%/24%
Progress: 65%
Location: Vancouver,BC
Default

Who's to say that an ape's diet isn't cultural? Doesn't a young ape learn from it's parents?

No matter.. carry on then..
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