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  #1   ^
Old Thu, May-04-06, 23:24
22 Frets 22 Frets is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 27
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 187/168/??? Male 69 inches
BF:
Progress:
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Default Perplexed...

Not sure what's happening, but after making a conscious decision to work out harder (and hopefully smarter), it seems that I've been gaining weight (and no it's not muscle weight).

My usual routine looked something like this:

Mon: Cardio-treadmill 20 min., stairs 10 min.
Tue: Weights- Chest (bench: 3 sets, incline bench: 3 sets)
Biceps (preacher curls: 3 sets, hammer curls: 3 sets)
Wed: Cardio-treadmill 20 min., stairs 10 min.
Thur: Weights-Shoulders (dumbbell military press: 3 sets, standing dumbbell
'lifts': 3 sets)
Triceps (skullcrushers: 3 sets, cable pulldowns: 3 sets)
Fri: Cardio-treadmill 20 min., stairs 10 min.
Sat: Weights-Legs (squats: 3 sets, deadlifts: 3 sets, leg presses: 3 sets)
Back (upright rows: 3 sets, pullups: 3 sets)

I think this is a pretty good routine...however, I still did not achieve the results I was looking for. Size has never been too much of an issue, it's always been more an issue of trying to get 'cuts' and definitions. To use the terminology, I would be described as a classic "endomorph" body type.

The changes I made:

1) stop lifting heavy weights w/ low reps and switch to low weight w/high reps.
2) Add 3 sets of decline bench on chest days.
3) Add 3 sets of a back exercise on back days.
4) Add 20 min. of cardio on my lift days (tues, thurs, sat) that is done after lifting.

And yet I seemed to have achieved no results, except to have gained 5 lbs of fat. With 6 days of cardio, I thought I would begin to see some tangible results. I'm still in my 20's so it's not like I should have an unbelievably slow metabolism. Add to all this that I generally follow a low carb diet. Admittedly I havent' been as vigilant about the diet as I used to, but I still never eat pasta, white flour, bagels, potatoes, and rarely have anything with refined sugar.

Can anyone help? I'm really out of ideas as to what i'm doing wrong.
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, May-05-06, 07:07
kbfunTH's Avatar
kbfunTH kbfunTH is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,240
 
Plan: UDS
Stats: 199/190/190 Male 69
BF:12%/11%/6%
Progress: 100%
Location: Pflugerville, TX
Default

How do you know the 5 lbs. is fat and not a combination of things?

I think it was a mistake to switch to higher reps, unless your goal is to work strength endurance. However, I think adding the extra sets and cardio is fine as your program looks like it can accomodate that.

You didn't say anything here about what your calorie intake is and how many calories you burn in a day, so assuming that you're not sure, it's going to be hard to know how much activity you'll have to do each week to get the cuts and definition you're looking for. Not eating all the typical carb stuff is probably a good thing overall, but if your calories are still too high, you're not going to see the results you want. Those carb items are a good place to start dropping some calories though.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, May-05-06, 08:12
kaypeeoh kaypeeoh is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,216
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 185/180/165
BF:
Progress: 25%
Default

How do you know you've gained 5 pounds of fat? If you're just starting cardio, your legs will be heavier from fluid accumilation. IF you've only started this program, you've accumilated fluid in all of the muscles. If you are using creatine that increases the fluid shifts into muscle tissue.
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  #4   ^
Old Sun, May-07-06, 19:38
nedgoudy nedgoudy is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 517
 
Plan: Whey Protein & Skim Milk
Stats: 240/150/160 Male 66 inches
BF:No Thanks!
Progress: 113%
Location: Los Angeles County
Default

Do Cardio to get lean.
Lift to bulk up.

Personally, I am an old
fart and don't have any
thing to prove in lifting
so I just do cardio and
that keeps me trim and
fit. I could probably even
have ABS if I dropped about
8 more lbs and did crunches
and all that, but hell... that
sounds like too much work to me.
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, May-09-06, 18:55
22 Frets 22 Frets is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 27
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 187/168/??? Male 69 inches
BF:
Progress:
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbfunTH
How do you know the 5 lbs. is fat and not a combination of things?

I think it was a mistake to switch to higher reps, unless your goal is to work strength endurance. However, I think adding the extra sets and cardio is fine as your program looks like it can accomodate that.

You didn't say anything here about what your calorie intake is and how many calories you burn in a day, so assuming that you're not sure, it's going to be hard to know how much activity you'll have to do each week to get the cuts and definition you're looking for. Not eating all the typical carb stuff is probably a good thing overall, but if your calories are still too high, you're not going to see the results you want. Those carb items are a good place to start dropping some calories though.



To answer some of your questions...I would say that the 5 lbs wasn't muscle because this is a program that I've been doing for a couple years now. I only instituted the change (which was more cardio essentially) only a few weeks ago, and gaining 5 lbs of muscle in that short period is pretty much impossible. In addition, knowing my own bodytype, I don't gain muscle that quickly. I don't take creatine, but I do take 100% whey protein three times a week after my lift days.

I always under the impression that 'low weights/high reps' was the way to get cuts and 'high weights/low reps' was more for gaining mass. Is this more myth than fact?

You're right though, i've never paid attention to caloric intake simply because I've only needed to count carbs as is dictated by the atkins diet. So are you saying that consuming tons of protein can be counter to getting definition if that protein amount exceeds a certain calorie limit?
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, May-09-06, 19:16
kbfunTH's Avatar
kbfunTH kbfunTH is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,240
 
Plan: UDS
Stats: 199/190/190 Male 69
BF:12%/11%/6%
Progress: 100%
Location: Pflugerville, TX
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 22 Frets
You're right though, i've never paid attention to caloric intake simply because I've only needed to count carbs as is dictated by the atkins diet. So are you saying that consuming tons of protein can be counter to getting definition if that protein amount exceeds a certain calorie limit?


Absolutely! Calories should always be the first thing you track regarding weight management. If cutting calories is necessary, then cutting them from carbs is a better way to go first if you desire to have more muscle.

High reps/low weight for definition is a myth in my opinion. This really depends on what rep range and weight percentage your training with.
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, May-09-06, 19:43
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,267
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 22 Frets
Admittedly I havent' been as vigilant about the diet as I used to, but I still never eat pasta, white flour, bagels, potatoes, and rarely have anything with refined sugar.

With many of us that's all it takes to gain again
Sounds unusual with all the exercise though. Most likely its just water, try drinking more. Lifting always makes me gain on the scales at first.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, May-10-06, 09:34
kaypeeoh kaypeeoh is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,216
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 185/180/165
BF:
Progress: 25%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 22 Frets

You're right though, i've never paid attention to caloric intake simply because I've only needed to count carbs as is dictated by the atkins diet. So are you saying that consuming tons of protein can be counter to getting definition if that protein amount exceeds a certain calorie limit?


My understanding is the body uses protein for maintenance of itself. Any excess protein is broken down into fatty acids or simple sugars. The body tries to keep 2000 calories of carb in ready storage. Once that level is met the body turns any extra sugar into fat. So yes, eating more protein than the body needs can cause increased body fat. For extreme exercisers, the body needs 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight per 24 hours.
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  #9   ^
Old Sat, May-13-06, 00:48
yoyaney's Avatar
yoyaney yoyaney is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 331
 
Plan: Low GI
Stats: 195/162/155 Female 5'5.5"
BF:
Progress: 83%
Location: Midwest
Default

Word to the women for I cannot speak for the men. Weight training will not make you bulk up, it will only make you melt away the pounds when it is incorporated with a little cardio! I just had to type that since I just read something that said Cardio will make you lean and weights will make you bulk up.
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  #10   ^
Old Sat, May-13-06, 10:30
kaypeeoh kaypeeoh is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,216
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 185/180/165
BF:
Progress: 25%
Default

In the short term, weights swell the muscles with fluid. So they may look a bit bigger in the mirror. Long term, as subcutaneous body fat shrinks the muscles have more definition. But real "bulking up" requires testosterone. Some women produce more testosterone than others but almost never produce enough to rival a male's level.

Few women can drive their body fat levels so low that the muscles stand out. Elite male marathon runners will have body fat below 5%. Female elite runners will still have 10-12% body fat. At that degree of body fat, some women stop menstruating. I'm looking at Runners World Magazine. The woman on the cover is lean enough that I can see her ribs but I don't see muscle definition. Certainly no 6-pack.

Real body fat percentage can be estimated with a skin fold caliper. The only truly accurate method involves weighing yourself while submerged in water. But the caliper is reasonably accurate and can monitor progress.

Women should to weights because it increases the calcium amount in their bones. Cardio is the best way to shrink the body fat percentage.
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, May-14-06, 07:01
laurelnyc laurelnyc is offline
New Member
Posts: 3
 
Plan: meat/fat
Stats: 145/128/123 Female 71 inches
BF:
Progress:
Default

22 Frets,
Here is my .02 worth. You are exercising too much and you are not giving your body time to recuperate. Cut all the cardio. You want to increase the intensity to hit the fast twitch muscle fibers and allow plenty of time for recuperation.

Check out Art deVany's website. He has some great fitness advice.
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