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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Aug-30-17, 09:16
TucsonBill's Avatar
TucsonBill TucsonBill is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 339
 
Plan: ≤ 20 carbs & IF
Stats: 292/235/170 Male 72 Inches
BF:
Progress: 47%
Location: Tucson, AZ
Default Risks of Rapid Weight Loss?

I'm getting a little bit concerned. I've only skipped one meal this week, it was lunch yesterday. I even did a bad thing and cheated and ate after 8pm Monday night. I'd only had a bowl of low-carb Tom Yum soup for dinner and about 10pm I ate two low carb chili-cheese dogs, (without the bun of course).

This morning after breakfast I weighed in at 265.2 which is 3 pounds since Sunday - (Sunday after breakfast is my normal time to check my weight every week and track progress), total of 27 pounds lost in 3.5 weeks.

I've been expecting the "stall" but it has not come and my weight loss even seems to be accelerating this week.

Every meal is a healthy meal, (but never more than 20 carbs per day), I feel fine - I am not noticing any ill effects. Nevertheless, there are many articles out there warning of the risks of rapid weight loss and I am beginning to wonder WTF is going on? Do I need to be concerned? This does not seem normal.

Bill

Last edited by TucsonBill : Wed, Aug-30-17 at 09:27.
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Aug-30-17, 10:15
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,422
 
Plan: P:E=>1 (Q3-22)
Stats: 168/100/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 79%
Default

Bill, your results are similar to mine in the begining. You've lost a lot of water and some fat - WTG! (~30 lbs first month in my case)

http://downhaul.com/lowcarb/daily.txt

Also, the last 2 days I have "lost" 13.4 lbs; water weight. Most of it anyway.

I think you'll taper off with weight loss soon to a more normal rate. That's my guess anyway. If you want to slow that water down you might increase your carbs some but that's not necessary. You're probably fine but I'm no doctor.
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Aug-30-17, 10:49
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,038
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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I experienced the same progression early on. You're staying consistent with healthy eating, so your body is responding moving to a weight that's optimum for you at this time.
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Aug-30-17, 10:55
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,427
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Agree with Thud, you were diagnosed with edema and this diet is diuretic...so a good thing and expected to lose water weight, that often reduces BP.

But you know me by now, and that I would eventually come back to harp about your meds ...one Farxiga side effect is "changes in urination (including urgent need to urinate more often, discomfort when urinating, urinating in larger amounts, or at night)" The SGLT2 inhibitors work via the Kidneys, forcing the BG into urine to be expelled. It is unknown how this med with react with a VLC diet that is also dehydrating.

Please read the Diabetes Warning Thread again and talk to your doctor.
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...93&page=4&pp=15
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Aug-30-17, 11:36
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,038
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
But you know me by now, and that I would eventually come back to harp about your meds ...one Farxiga side effect is "changes in urination (including urgent need to urinate more often, discomfort when urinating, urinating in larger amounts, or at night)" The SGLT2 inhibitors work via the Kidneys, forcing the BG into urine to be expelled. It is unknown how this med with react with a VLC diet that is also dehydrating.

Please read the Diabetes Warning Thread again and talk to your doctor.
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...93&page=4&pp=15

Ok, my brakes are on full. I was under the impression, Bill, that you had consulted with a doctor by now. This is the most important next action you can take!!!
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Aug-30-17, 11:50
TucsonBill's Avatar
TucsonBill TucsonBill is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 339
 
Plan: ≤ 20 carbs & IF
Stats: 292/235/170 Male 72 Inches
BF:
Progress: 47%
Location: Tucson, AZ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Agree with Thud, you were diagnosed with edema and this diet is diuretic...so a good thing and expected to lose water weight, that often reduces BP.


I've never had HBP, my BP has been 120/80 for years and has never changed (Forutnately).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
But you know me by now, and that I would eventually come back to harp about your meds ...one Farxiga side effect is "changes in urination (including urgent need to urinate more often, discomfort when urinating, urinating in larger amounts, or at night)" The SGLT2 inhibitors work via the Kidneys, forcing the BG into urine to be expelled. It is unknown how this med with react with a VLC diet that is also dehydrating.


As I mentioned before, my doctor is a fan of low carb diets and it was his advice that led me here to this forum. Also my BG and A1C were so high at my last exam is the reason he prescribed Farxiga in the first place, he said I had to do *something* to get those numbers down. I went to see him again just a week and a half ago and my BG was averaging about 130, down from 250 and he said to continue the Farxiga for now... So far, I have had no side effects. I'll be seeing him again today to get a prescription for the CAC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Please read the Diabetes Warning Thread again and talk to your doctor.
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...93&page=4&pp=15


I also found this on the Diet Doctor website which may be if interest:

https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb-diet-pill-good-idea
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Aug-30-17, 12:41
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,427
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

DD Article witten in 2013 before all the side effects were reported, compiled and the FDA added the Black Box warning.

"Normal glycemic ketoacidosis" is the risk that worries Dr Westman and what happened to Robin described in that thread. DKA could happen even if your BG was normal. The amputation risk is an extra bonus.

Mentioned only because the increased urination from Farxiga in combination with the diuretic effect of VCL may be contributing to your rapid weight loss.

Last edited by JEY100 : Wed, Aug-30-17 at 13:09.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Aug-30-17, 19:39
TucsonBill's Avatar
TucsonBill TucsonBill is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 339
 
Plan: ≤ 20 carbs & IF
Stats: 292/235/170 Male 72 Inches
BF:
Progress: 47%
Location: Tucson, AZ
Default

Today was not a good day. Even though I found a place that does the CAC tests for under $100, my doctor would not prescribe it, he said that is something that should be prescribed by a cardiologist. He also says they have been more of a fad and do not detect other kinds of obstructions and plaque and can give people a false sense of security. He gave me resting EKG in his office, (and did not charge me), said it looked OK and gave me a list of cardiologists I could contact if I wanted more than that. He said a cardiologist would probably want to to do a more complete exam including some of the more advanced stress tests to get a clearer picture of my heart health and not just a CAC.

*sigh*

I'm thinking about rescheduling that Life Line screening which included the carotid artery disease screening. Wouldn't plaque in the carotid artery be indicative of plaque in the coronary artery? I read this:

"Results of the present study indicated that CACS significantly correlates with carotid atherosclerotic plaque burden and the presence of tissue compositions."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23764919

Regarding the meds, I told him that my BG had stayed in the high 90's to mid 100's fasting and going up to about 125-130 after a meal for the past 2 days. He said to give it another week and if those numbers hold, to discontinue the Metformin first, then, if I was still having those low numbers to discontinue the Farxiga. He said to monitor my myself closely and use my common sense. So that's what I'll do on that front.

A few things about "risks"... I've been an insurance agent since 1985 and a securities dealer since 1989 - I know a lot about risks - just about anything you do in life has risks and could carry a "black box" warning. Who's to say out of 1000 people who go on low carb diet poses them no health risk whatsoever? What if we just looked at people who already had coronary artery disease and they go on LCHF - do you suppose and increase in death by 2 deaths out of 1000 would be significant?

I read the amputation stuff and it mostly involved people who were already diagnosed with arterial disease and had already had prior amputations. I'm no where near that far gone. About 4 months ago, I got a new fridge and while moving out the old one the dolly dropped off the edge of the doorstep while I was pulling it out and majorly smashed my big toe, (this was before I knew how high my A1C was). I pulled off my sock and it was totally bloody, it had popped my big toe like a grape! Split it right down the middle of the toe and it hurt like hell! For two weeks I could not even wear a shoe on that foot but it did heal up just fine and my nail is growing back now. I didn't even go to the doctor for it. I don't think its much of a risk to be on the meds for a short time, (only three weeks so far), help bridge the gap.

My mom got obese later in life like me, never really did anything about it and died at age 74 with congestive heart failure which can be caused by coronary artery disease. I think I got my love of pasta and rice form my dad who loved Italian and Chinese food. he at rice and pasta all his life, never gained a pound - he was always skinny - and lived to be 92 - so I know some of this stuff is genetic.

Last edited by TucsonBill : Wed, Aug-30-17 at 19:44.
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, Aug-31-17, 02:43
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,427
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

The Life Line screening is better than standard tests. I had one and it is reassuring, but running an ultrasound wand along the carotid artery in the neck is not the same as a CT scan of the heart arteries. Not considered a "fad" by doctors in this area.

"Normal glycemic ketoacidosis" is a risk not yet highlighted with these drugs because few users would also be following a VLC diet. Why I refered you to the quote from Dr Westman, because he is a clinical doctor who treats more diabetics with a VLC and has for longer than anyone. There is no warning from your BG level, so be aware of the current advice on DD.
Quote:
SGLT2 inhibitors (e.g. Farxiga, Jardiance, Invokana)

These drugs1 are a good way to treat type 2 diabetes, but as a known side effect they increase the risk of a dangerous condition called ketoacidosis. It’s likely that this side effect could become more common on a strict low-carb diet. Proceed with caution and discuss it with your doctor.

If you get symptoms of ketoacidosis: extreme thirst, nausea, vomiting, confusion etc. you should stop the medication, eat carbs and contact a doctor immediately.


I am a random person on the internet and not giving medical advice, but can point you to Dr Westman's talks where he includes examples of his clinic patients (those start min. 20) including at what max/min BG levels he removes what medications and in what order. Earlier in the talk he explains reasons, views on specific medications, etc. https://www.dietdoctor.com/member/p...ns/westman-vail
https://www.dietdoctor.com/member/p...ons/westman-lcc

Your GP is good, he recommended you follow the Atkins diet to reverse your diabetes, but eliminating/managing doses of diabetes medications takes some experience.

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Aug-31-17 at 08:13.
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Aug-31-17, 08:53
TucsonBill's Avatar
TucsonBill TucsonBill is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 339
 
Plan: ≤ 20 carbs & IF
Stats: 292/235/170 Male 72 Inches
BF:
Progress: 47%
Location: Tucson, AZ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
The Life Line screening is better than standard tests. I had one and it is reassuring, but running an ultrasound wand along the carotid artery in the neck is not the same as a CT scan of the heart arteries. Not considered a "fad" by doctors in this area.


Yes, its very frustrating. There used to be a "Tucson Heart Hospital" that advertised packages including the CAC scan and you could just walk in and get one. It closed for some strange reason. I'm going to do more searching up in Phoenix and see if I can find a similar service there.

Our family is a victim of Obama Care. Before Obama Care we had a great medical plan I love, paid about $300 a month for the whole family. It was a PPO and I only paid $20 for office visits and everything else was 80/20 coinsurance with a max out of pocket of $3,000 per person and $5,000 per family. The promise repeated over and over "If you like your plan you can keep your plan" was a bald faced lie. Now I am stuck with a plan that has a 5 or $6,000 deductible, (I forget which because we have never had that much expense), before the plan pays a single dime and its costing $550 a month. So, I am basically paying $550 a month for nothing unless I have a major expense. There are even loopholes in the so-called "free screenings" we're all supposed to get under the ACA. My "free" colonoscopy wound up costing me over $1500 because the doctor coded it as "diagnostic" because he said I had hemroids, (which I found out something upwards of 70% of men my age have to some extent). Other than that, I got a clean bill of health, no polyps, no nothing. I filed complaints but in the end, there was nothing I could do about it. Same thing happened to my wife with her "free" mamogram, because they found a small lump smaller than a pea that turned out to be nothing, it was "diagnostinc" and not free. The ACA is a &%*$&~ing scam.

I've had a lot of expense this month with my daughter starting college and our dog having to spend a week in the hospital for renal failure! Sheesh now this. I'm supposed to spend hundreds of dollars to see a cardiologist and even then there is no guarantee he will give me the prescription for the $100 CAC.

Last edited by TucsonBill : Thu, Aug-31-17 at 09:01.
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Aug-31-17, 09:53
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,427
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

You don't have to do any diagnostic test, especially one your doctor doesn't consider valid. Give the diet time to work. Most likely the weight loss will slow down, you should be able to drop medications soon, and when you are nearer goal weight, re-check the lipid panel.
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Aug-31-17, 10:17
TucsonBill's Avatar
TucsonBill TucsonBill is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 339
 
Plan: ≤ 20 carbs & IF
Stats: 292/235/170 Male 72 Inches
BF:
Progress: 47%
Location: Tucson, AZ
Default

I'm just concerned because of my mom died of congestive heart failure - and the possible causes of that, one being coronary artery disease.

But, GOOD NEWS! I just talked to Abrazo Arizona Heart Hospital on Thomas Road in Phoenix - (I kinda got the run around and got transferred to the Imaging Dept Supervisor), and guess what? They are right now in the process of setting up a "heart check up" package which includes the CAC for $99!!

He said they are still waiting on "final approval" but its been in the works now for 6 months and they are in the final stages, and thinks they will start offering them in about 2 weeks. His name is Miles and he's going to email me as soon as he knows the official start date.
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Aug-31-17, 11:05
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,422
 
Plan: P:E=>1 (Q3-22)
Stats: 168/100/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 79%
Default

I think Ken shares his results at the bottom of this page. I wouldn't get too wrapped up in the results, "good" or "bad" but getting one early on and comparing it in a year or two to another might be interesting and beneficial for others to look at Bill.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...26&page=4&pp=15

and I found his follow up post of great interest...

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showpost...14&postcount=75
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Aug-31-17, 11:56
TucsonBill's Avatar
TucsonBill TucsonBill is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 339
 
Plan: ≤ 20 carbs & IF
Stats: 292/235/170 Male 72 Inches
BF:
Progress: 47%
Location: Tucson, AZ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thud123
I think Ken shares his results at the bottom of this page. I wouldn't get too wrapped up in the results, "good" or "bad" but getting one early on and comparing it in a year or two to another might be interesting and beneficial for others to look at Bill.


I skimmed through that entire thread paying the most attention to Ken's posts. Very informative, and thanks.

I read a couple of the articles too and one of the things I had already decided to do was start taking L-Citrulline in the morning and Swanson L-Arginine at night as well as increasing my intake of wild caught salmon. I eat pretty hefty portions so I figure I'm getting 6-8,000 mg of extra Omega-3's a week. I might try the vitamin K thing if my results are bad.

I am wondering if anyone has ever heard of serrapeptase? It is claimed to actually remove plaque from arteries.

https://www.onlineholistichealth.co...rtery-blockage/

There are a growing number of YouTube testimonials about the enzyme, just wondering you heard of nay anyone here who has ever tried it.
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  #15   ^
Old Thu, Aug-31-17, 12:00
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,422
 
Plan: P:E=>1 (Q3-22)
Stats: 168/100/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 79%
Default

Maybe start a new thread or journal and you'll get more direct answers. We've kind of wandered off topic - myself included
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