Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Daily Low-Carb Support > General Low-Carb
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Thu, Jul-05-18, 21:55
jmh6251's Avatar
jmh6251 jmh6251 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 893
 
Plan: Keto
Stats: 190/155/145 Female 5ft 3.5 in
BF:
Progress: 78%
Location: Kitsap County in Wa
Default Counting both calories and carbs

Hi does anyone else have to count both calories and carbs, or am i the only one? I know quite a few people i have read about, dont have to count calories, just carbs. I have to count both. Maybe it depends on your metabolism or something.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Thu, Jul-05-18, 22:10
BillyHW's Avatar
BillyHW BillyHW is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 378
 
Plan: Keto + IF
Stats: 260/300/165 Male 5' 6"
BF:
Progress: -42%
Location: Alberta, Canada
Default

My theory is that if you want to go below your natural (low-carb) body weight set point (or adipostat or lipostat, whatever you want to call it), then you're going to need to count calories.

For some people, their bodies might be so damaged from a lifetime of sugar/starch consumption that this set point is set above what's considered "normal" according to the BMI tables.

Ultimately such people who do count those calories to go lower will have to deal with hunger, and that could cause people to give up completely on low-carbing and then spiral back into regaining all their lost weight, and then some.

It might be a better idea just to keep the carbs as low as you can to get that set point as low as you can. And then focus on being fit at that weight and accept yourself at that weight.

I think I'm going to try that strategy this time around.
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Fri, Jul-06-18, 03:57
Just Jo's Avatar
Just Jo Just Jo is offline
A'72 Lifer Hard Core
Posts: 15,116
 
Plan: A'72 Induction Lifer + IF
Stats: 265/114/130 Female 5'4"
BF:Not so much now!
Progress: 112%
Location: South Central New Mexico
Default

I have to count both carbs and kcal b/c I don't "know" when Imma full...
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Fri, Jul-06-18, 05:52
Susky2's Avatar
Susky2 Susky2 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 88
 
Plan: Keto-ish
Stats: 339/294/245 Male 76 inches
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: Central PA
Default

I personally think calorie counting is a waste of time. The whole concept of dietary calories is based on an improperly applied approach to determine the "energy" store of food. It can work as a VERY general rule of thumb, but there is far too much emphasis on the calorie-in-calorie-out model.

The body doesn't burn food - it metabolizes it - and barring any unusual hormonal issues, eating the right mixture of foods should be sufficient.
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Fri, Jul-06-18, 06:11
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,096
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
Default

Like Jo I do not have a reliable off switch to tell me I am no longer hungry. Consequently I use portion control. I don't explicitly count calories but I limit how much food I eat using the experience I have gleaned over the years to know what is an appropriate amount for me. Certainly eating low carb has greatly lessened those cravings but still if I followed the signals I get from my body I would eat more food than my body needs.
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Fri, Jul-06-18, 06:32
Susky2's Avatar
Susky2 Susky2 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 88
 
Plan: Keto-ish
Stats: 339/294/245 Male 76 inches
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: Central PA
Default

One of the things I like about low carb and keto eating is that they rely on fat and protein as kind of a traffic cop to trigger satiety. But I wonder if we as a society have become so conditioned to think of "full" as the time to stop eating that we don't easily recognize "satisfied."
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Fri, Jul-06-18, 07:27
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 12,833
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Calorie counting on low carb works when it works. If you can purposefully eat a little less without discomfort, then why not? For me, counting to 2000 calories on the SAD would leave me hungry and probably bingeing past that limit. On very low carb, high fat keto, I might feel stuffed on the same calories--and more energetic etc. I've counted to lose, eating less than my appetite, that just led to lethargy and binges. Calorie counting for me is more of a measure of the effect of my diet on my appetite.

I probably generally eat less on keto than I'd eat if my diet were less ketogenic, it just doesn't feel that way.

I've been eating for the last few months without tracking calories, and still losing weight, my new job keeps me very active. I've handled this by keeping my protein and carbs the same, and then drinking as much heavy cream as it takes, at 94 percent fat calories it would take a lot to keep me out of ketosis.

The Biggest Loser workouts don't work generally long term, because who can find the time to do low-quality workouts 30-40 hours a week? Now my job is a low quality workout.
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Fri, Jul-06-18, 08:37
jessdamess's Avatar
jessdamess jessdamess is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,803
 
Plan: LCHF, 100g
Stats: 252/165/150 Female 69.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 85%
Location: Northeast TN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmh6251
Hi does anyone else have to count both calories and carbs, or am i the only one? I know quite a few people i have read about, dont have to count calories, just carbs. I have to count both. Maybe it depends on your metabolism or something.

Me.
There's obviously some miswiring going on in my case. I have what I call a slow satiety reflex. It takes me 20 min or to feel when I've had enough. By the time I feel full it's too late.
And I also have a compulsion other times to eat until I'm physically sick.
So I need the guidepost of calorie counting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Jo
I have to count both carbs and kcal b/c I don't "know" when Imma full...


Exactly. When I finally think I feel full, and when I've reached the max capacity of calories to maintain weight, are 2 different things. By the time I feel full, I've already eaten too much. 4 years of data verifies this. I've tried eating "ad libitium" and all I ever do is gain weight.
I have a naughty brain.
Reply With Quote
  #9   ^
Old Fri, Jul-06-18, 08:42
BeachDonna BeachDonna is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 84
 
Plan: no specific plan
Stats: 177/147/147 Female 65 inches
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

It would seem that actually counting calories would cause one to favor the wrong sorts of foods..i.e. a nice buttery baked chicken thigh with the skin on is going to look like a lot more calories than a pop tart.

Counting calories would also make it seem as if calories are something that needs to be restricted/reduced...so when baking the chicken thighs, it would be tempting to remove the skin and bake them dry...this is not going to make a very tasty or satisfying meal.

Now if I decide, before eating, that I'll probably be satisfied with two buttery baked chicken thighs with the skin on and stop (gotta stop, because you know they're still tasting really good!) to realize that I am indeed satisfied, that is just good practice of the "eat when hungry and stop when satisfied" advice. That advice is basically (loose) calorie counting.
Reply With Quote
  #10   ^
Old Fri, Jul-06-18, 08:49
jessdamess's Avatar
jessdamess jessdamess is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,803
 
Plan: LCHF, 100g
Stats: 252/165/150 Female 69.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 85%
Location: Northeast TN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Susky2
I personally think calorie counting is a waste of time. The whole concept of dietary calories is based on an improperly applied approach to determine the "energy" store of food. It can work as a VERY general rule of thumb, but there is far too much emphasis on the calorie-in-calorie-out model.

The body doesn't burn food - it metabolizes it - and barring any unusual hormonal issues, eating the right mixture of foods should be sufficient.


Should, but in many cases isn't unfortunately.

Agreed. Too much emphasis on the CICO model. But for folk like me whose satiety cues are way out of wack, or who have eating compulsions, there has to be some kind of "Halting point" guidepost. And with consistent logging or portion control, we can discover numbers or portion sizes that work. Are they necessarily the accurate CICO numbers? Of course not, but if the guidepost gets you to "loss" or "maintaining" accuracy doesn't matter. Consistency does.

I feel my best when the quality of my food is good 80-90% of the time. I could fill it with junk but the waters start to get very murky. I have diabetes on both sides of the family. Cholesterol on one. So it's a good idea for me to pay attention to quality for that as well.
Reply With Quote
  #11   ^
Old Fri, Jul-06-18, 10:00
Mondaygirl Mondaygirl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 136
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 203/186.4/160 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 39%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Default

I used to, but down the line I realized that I perceived the calorie limit as a challenge to meet. I ended up eating when I wasnít hungry because I had calories left over to use. Additionally, I did what a previous poster mentioned, for example, take that crispy fatty chicken skin off to save calories for a glass of wine later. It turned into a calorie puzzle game and at that point it had nothing to do with healthy eating anymore.

Now I use what I have learned about body chemistry and common sense portion control to get to a point where I can trust my bodyís cues and its ability to let me know what it needs. Itís a journey, but Iím off to a good start.
Reply With Quote
  #12   ^
Old Fri, Jul-06-18, 10:52
Dazed1's Avatar
Dazed1 Dazed1 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 247
 
Plan: Keto
Stats: 232.8/203.2/165 Male 5' 9"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Florida
Default

As a believer in both Keto and The Caloric Restriction Society I count both.
Reply With Quote
  #13   ^
Old Fri, Jul-06-18, 13:34
jmh6251's Avatar
jmh6251 jmh6251 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 893
 
Plan: Keto
Stats: 190/155/145 Female 5ft 3.5 in
BF:
Progress: 78%
Location: Kitsap County in Wa
Default

That's my problem, I can't tell when I'm full. It seems to work when I portion control and write everything down. I suppose I will always have to. Hi Jo, I used to post in your hard core forum. I'm glad you are still around and posting. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one
Reply With Quote
  #14   ^
Old Sat, Jul-07-18, 08:37
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,318
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Yes, Dr Westman answers your question, including reasons for hunger, what to do when weight loss stops, when calorie counting needed, etc.

https://www.facebook.com/AdaptYourL...98109073764984/
Reply With Quote
  #15   ^
Old Sat, Jul-07-18, 09:05
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 12,833
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Susky2
One of the things I like about low carb and keto eating is that they rely on fat and protein as kind of a traffic cop to trigger satiety. But I wonder if we as a society have become so conditioned to think of "full" as the time to stop eating that we don't easily recognize "satisfied."


Maybe to some degree. But I'd feel "full" on a cup of butter. Not so much on a cup of potato. And an amount of cheese that contains as much milk fat as a cup of butter might leave me still hungry. I have a pet theory that straight fat, protein, or even carbohydrate can send a clearer signal that you've had enough of that particular nutrient. The hormones/peptides etc. that regulate appetite have very different responses for the three macros, but any one of them can be satiating (or specific to that macronutrient satiating) in my experience. Researchers claim plain potatoes are particularly satiating, I know I'll stop eating them before I've eaten a meal's worth. Never caught them making me not want cheese.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 00:03.


Copyright © 2000-2018 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.