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  #477   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 10:44
JSH's Avatar
JSH JSH is offline
New Member
Posts: 12
 
Plan: cracklins, meat, fat
Stats: 238/203/180 Male 72.5 inches
BF:six feet tall
Progress: 60%
Location: Indianapolis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynnp
I believe (my theory) that the reason some people show elevated triglyceride levels when they are eating very LC is because they are emptying their fat cells (aka losing fat) and it is showing on the blood tests. That is just my theory. I have no links or research citations to prove it.


LynnP, Dr. Bernstein belives this too and wrote it in his book.

Hopefully I'll be finished burning fat before I go back to the doctor for a blood test.
I don't think he'd "get it" if I tried to explain away a high triglyceride level as a result of losing weight.
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  #478   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 10:47
Gstout's Avatar
Gstout Gstout is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 80
 
Plan: Steak & Beer
Stats: 212/193/165 Male 69 inches
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: SouthEast USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick
I believe you.

The period when I left home for college (my mother forced me to eat all sorts of assorted veggies until I was 17) and before Atkins, I had NEVER eaten vegetables or fruits. I was fine until I started to gain weight once I hit 30. This was most likely from eating too much and too little physical activity.

When I started Atkins, I ate veggies for the first time since I was a teenager. I hated it. But, I ate it. Albeit, only a single serving per day which was absolute torture on my palates. It ruined every single meal.

You know, during the time when I wasn't eating veggies or fruits, I never had any health issues, aside from gaining some weight in the latter years. I never had constipation. I never had heartburn. I never had any ailments, aside from eating too many carbs. I felt perfectly fine.

For me, I have no doubt I'd feel the same if I were to cut out veggies. My only concern was being swayed by everyone and every research report that eating veggies were "necessary" for health, and that certain nutrients are available *only* in veggies. If this isn't true, which it appears that it isn't, it'll be a long day on Pluto before I eat another veggie.

My advantage is that for whatever reason, I not only like eating all sorts of animals, but I enjoy eating every part of them, except for the hoof, hair, and teeth, I guess.




In the South, my grandmothers VASTLY improved the tastiness of vegetables..... BY ADDING HUGE GOBBS OF LARD!~
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  #479   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 10:59
lynnp's Avatar
lynnp lynnp is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 4,072
 
Plan: My Version of M/E
Stats: 284/000/140 Female 65 inches
BF:54%/49.5%/25%
Progress: 197%
Location: Rhode Island
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Thanks Steve. I don't have any books by Dr. Bernstein. What is the title (or are there more than one)? I'd like to look for it at the library.
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  #480   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 11:18
TBoneMitch TBoneMitch is offline
OOOOOOOOOH YEAH!
Posts: 692
 
Plan: High Fat/IF
Stats: 215/170/160 Male 5 feet 10 inches
BF:27%/12%/8%
Progress: 82%
Location: Montreal, Quebec
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Concerning high triglycerides on LC, this would probably only happen during phases of rapid fat loss, as vast numbers of triglycerides come out of fat cells.

Usually, triglyceride values go down (way down) fast on a high fat diet.
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  #481   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 11:26
rissa's Avatar
rissa rissa is offline
Chaos in the flesh!
Posts: 1,725
 
Plan: custom
Stats: 386/218.2/167 Female 69
BF:
Progress: 77%
Location: Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick
Amazing!

I'm with your son, on this one. Asparagus is one of the most bitter foods that I've ever tasted.


my husband thinks they taste like feet smell :P and I only like them if they're sautee'd in butter and garlic
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  #482   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 12:00
lynnp's Avatar
lynnp lynnp is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 4,072
 
Plan: My Version of M/E
Stats: 284/000/140 Female 65 inches
BF:54%/49.5%/25%
Progress: 197%
Location: Rhode Island
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My point exactly TBoneMitch. Thank you.
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  #483   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 13:07
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
Posts: 26,772
 
Plan: Muscle Centric
Stats: 238/153/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: UK
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lynnp, I think that this is the book by Dr Bernstein ~ a fascinating read and a fascinating personal story.


And while I was looking for it on Amazon for you, I came across this one too ~ have not seen it before.
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  #484   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 13:25
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
Posts: 26,772
 
Plan: Muscle Centric
Stats: 238/153/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: UK
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Frederick ~ thanks for outlining your plan. I'm still deciding how I'll approach it.

I usually work out at lunchtime, I did wonder whether to eat my usual breakfast of eggs, and then maybe have some whey protein mixed into some cream about an hour before I lift. I will then eat my lunch straight after (probably salmon mashed with mayo and some cheese).

With regard to the power walking, I'll probably do that on empty. By that I mean, that I will still have breakfast, but not eat again until after I walk (which will be around 4-5 hours later).

Obviously, I am open to ideas too, so if anyone else has any suggestions ...


and lynnp ... thanks for the encouragement
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  #485   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 13:36
Totoro Totoro is offline
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Posts: 25
 
Plan: Carnivorous
Stats: 146/129/125 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: United States
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I don't post often, but I have been following this fascinating thread for awhile now. Very interesting!

I like veggies okay, but I have always wondered in the back of my mind if they were necessary, especially in the recommended quantities. And when I'm busy, they can be a hassle to prepare. But I felt like I "should", or felt guilty if I just ate chicken or steak and skipped the salad and veggie b/c I didn't feel like making them!

Also, I'm realizing now that when I eat a meal with a lot of veggies, I am just shy of feeling really satisfied.

From a Paleo point of view, I also just couldn't imagine hunter/gatherers sitting around eating a lot of vegetable matter. Broccoli and cauliflower are touted as great vegetables, but I can't imagine coming across a lot of those vegetables in the wild (of course, I know that my imagination has no bearing on whether or not they were actually available then).

Something else I wonder about but don't see mentioned very often--what about insects and small reptiles? It seems to me if big game wasn't available, the "low-hanging fruit" would be bugs, grubs, small snakes, lizards, etc. Those would provide protein (and fat?) to keep people going, I would think.
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  #486   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 13:47
lynnp's Avatar
lynnp lynnp is offline
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Posts: 4,072
 
Plan: My Version of M/E
Stats: 284/000/140 Female 65 inches
BF:54%/49.5%/25%
Progress: 197%
Location: Rhode Island
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Thanks Demi for the info on the books and you're very welcome!
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  #487   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 13:49
serrelind serrelind is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,649
 
Plan: paleoish
Stats: 130/104/105 Female 5'1"
BF:-
Progress: 104%
Location: Florida
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I can imagine these people eating vegetables, but only when there was no meat available or during lean times. Meat is so much more tasty than the vegetables and the dense calories would keep their belly full for a long time. Anyone tried to eat veggies w/o dressing or spices or butter or cheese on it? It's hard to get them down by themselves. However, I CAN imagine our ancestors eating fruits with gusto if they find them. Fruits are sweet and I think humans are naturally drawn toward sweet stuff.
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  #488   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 13:55
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
Posts: 26,772
 
Plan: Muscle Centric
Stats: 238/153/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: UK
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Also, let's not forget that our ancestors would only have been able to eat them (fruit/veggies, that is) when they were 'in season' anyway - which would have meant that there would obviously have been times when they weren't available.
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  #489   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 14:37
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JL53563 JL53563 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,209
 
Plan: The Real Human Diet
Stats: 225/165/180 Male 5'8"
BF:?/?/8.6%
Progress: 133%
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
...The following is just my opinion, remember- you can be trained young to eat anything, and will then 'love' it. For example, Vegemite, a heavy, very salty, strong tasting concentrated yeast paste- a byproduct of the brewing industry, is eaten by Aussie kids (and adults), like the Yanks eat jam- on toast... Turnips taste, for lack of a better word, nasty- (along with mustard, collard and kale greens, and the cabbage family). I always wondered how they were ever considered edible in the first place- near starvation, I guess. Conditioning rules the palate.


I can vouch for this from personal experience. When I was in high school, some 25 years ago, we had an exchange student from Australia. He had brought, or somehow abtained, some vegemite. He had some of us try it. No kidding, it was the most God-awful tasting thing I had ever put in my mouth. But they love in Australia. He explained that they eat it much like we eat peanut butter, on a slice of bread or maybe on a cracker.
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  #490   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 14:48
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
Posts: 26,772
 
Plan: Muscle Centric
Stats: 238/153/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: UK
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LOL, we have a similar product in the UK called Marmite. Even the ad for it says that 'you either love it, or hate it'!
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  #491   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 15:12
Rob21370's Avatar
Rob21370 Rob21370 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 225
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 336/297/140 Male 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 20%
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serrelind
I can imagine these people eating vegetables, but only when there was no meat available or during lean times. Meat is so much more tasty than the vegetables and the dense calories would keep their belly full for a long time. Anyone tried to eat veggies w/o dressing or spices or butter or cheese on it? It's hard to get them down by themselves.


Even with all the goo it's still hard to take veggies. My wife always used to make me give them "just a taste". Asparagus was disgusting, cabbage makes me feel like I'm going to throw up, artichokes almost made me sick, lettuce has no flavor, peas and beans make me ill (peanut allergy). The "foo foo" salads (as I call them) were nothing but bitter, radishes and turnips taste sour, brocolli was the only thing that I found interesting. Why do people eat this stuff? It can't be satisfying.
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  #492   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 15:17
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,866
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Quote:
Why do people eat this stuff? It can't be satisfying.

Tastes heavenly to me. Turnips are a symphony of flavor with a great crunch (one of my ultimate favorties), lettuce is crunchy -- some lettuces are peppery and quite flavorful, radishes are bite-y, broccoli is musky, cabbage is a medley of interesting and complex flavors with nice crunch (if raw), and brussel sprouts are... hmmmm... musky is the best word I have for them, a bit of sweetness to them. With a bit of butter or ghee, if freshly steamed, they transport me to heaven!
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  #493   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 15:43
JL53563's Avatar
JL53563 JL53563 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,209
 
Plan: The Real Human Diet
Stats: 225/165/180 Male 5'8"
BF:?/?/8.6%
Progress: 133%
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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Red bell peppers almost taste like candy to me now. I actually like most veggies, although I have to admit that I usually drench them with melted butter or olive oil. I do eat quite a lot of veggies, but I stick to the lower-carb, higher fiber ones. I probably only get maybe 80 claories a day from them.
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  #494   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 15:53
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob21370
Goat rocks! I'm not one for very gamey meats, but Goat is sweeter than beef IMO. My only problem is how to properly prepare it because otherwise it's very chewy. Trust me people, go out and find a slab of goat now...you won't regret it.

The best to cook goat is by slowly brasing. Cut meat (preferably with bones attached) in big chunks, add chopped onions (if you eat vggies) and some water, season with salt, pepper, spices and herbs to your taste, and bring it a boil, cover with lid and let simmer for 1.5-2 h. I make it in a dutch oven but any heavy bottom pan will do. Initially it will start to boil, then the liquid will evaporate and the meat start slowly braising and even browning in it's own juices and fats. I use this technique for goat, mutton and any tough piece of meat. Actually, the amount of onions should be ..matching amount of meat, volume vise. You don't have to eat onions if you strict with carbs, you can cut them in large chunks and fish out whe it's ready. This technique produce the most tender and delicious goat and mutton. Just watchnot ot burn and keep the heat very low.
HTH
EDA: reduce the heat after it starts boiling, so it simmers very slowly,

Last edited by dina1957 : Thu, Mar-09-06 at 16:28.
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  #495   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 16:20
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Tastes heavenly to me. Turnips are a symphony of flavor with a great crunch (one of my ultimate favorties), lettuce is crunchy -- some lettuces are peppery and quite flavorful, radishes are bite-y, broccoli is musky, cabbage is a medley of interesting and complex flavors with nice crunch (if raw), and brussel sprouts are... hmmmm... musky is the best word I have for them, a bit of sweetness to them. With a bit of butter or ghee, if freshly steamed, they transport me to heaven!

Nancy,
We are so much alike, I love all vegetables and even without lots of fat on them. After reading this thread, I feel a bit like a weirdo for liking "awfull" things like artichockes- just steamed with lemon and garlic (hold the mayo) asparagus- both steamed and broiled, bell pepper - sweet and crunchy, I eat them raw and roasted, young spring radishes and fresh persian cucumber with a sprinkle of sea salt - yummy, green onions - in salads and simpy on the side dipped in sea salt. Delicious green korean radish, bite-y and juicy, just cut in chunks or shreded with carrots for a great salad with lemon juice; all kind of lettuce: endive and radiccio included, beets - roasted with a splash of balsamic vinegar or fermented and made into a cold summer soup or borcht, or beet greens - sauteed with balsamic vinegar. Not to mention humble white cabbage and all her cousins, I can just cut it in chunks and eat it raw, or made into home made souerkraut, yum yum. My mouth waters when I think about helroom and cluster tomatoes, again, dont need dressing for those, and all varieties of onions and garlic, that I can't imagine cooking without. Delicious winter and summer squashes, steamed, baked, roasted and made into pancakes, eggplants roasted in the oven, add some lemon juice and a bit of olive oil - delicious, and don't forget thinly sliced fennel in salads or halved and roasted in the oven with turnips, which I love both - roots and greens, crunchy celery and meaty spinach...and the list goes on.
And don't get me started on fruits: crunchy juicy apples, tart marachino cherries, fragrant and delicious appricots, peaches and pears, perfume like smelling huge asian melons, juicy mangos and the king of fruit- ruby red pomegranate, and all variety of berries.
I did not mention potatoes and corn, since they are my least favorite and I almost never eat them, I think of them as grains, not veggie.
So all those who like vegetables and fruit are poisoning themselves, I guess. I am not arguing just trying to understand how anyone can live on meat and fat alone, even if this is 100% healthy, isn't it simply boring? JMHO

Last edited by dina1957 : Thu, Mar-09-06 at 16:26.
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  #496   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 16:53
lynnp's Avatar
lynnp lynnp is offline
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Posts: 4,072
 
Plan: My Version of M/E
Stats: 284/000/140 Female 65 inches
BF:54%/49.5%/25%
Progress: 197%
Location: Rhode Island
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I love the taste of veggies and pretty much all fruits...that is why I am so big. Once I eat even a little, I am hungry the rest of the day and nearly obsess about food. If I avoid them, I am not hungry and even forget to eat. It is weird, but it is my addiction. I LOVE FOOD! I love to cook, taste and serve it. I just have to avoid certain things (fruits and veggies) or I go into a carb tailspin and binge for months at a time. It is an ugly cycle, but that is how it is for me.
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  #497   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 17:47
JSH's Avatar
JSH JSH is offline
New Member
Posts: 12
 
Plan: cracklins, meat, fat
Stats: 238/203/180 Male 72.5 inches
BF:six feet tall
Progress: 60%
Location: Indianapolis
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LynnP: Here's a quote from the book using Amazon's search feature. I checked the book out at the library and don't have it here at the house.

1. on Page 190:
"... Elevated Serum Triglycerides During Weight Loss When you're losing weight, fat is "mobilized" for oxidation - i.e., to be burned - and it will appear in the bloodstream as triglycerides. If you see elevated serum ..."
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  #498   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 18:09
lynnp's Avatar
lynnp lynnp is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 4,072
 
Plan: My Version of M/E
Stats: 284/000/140 Female 65 inches
BF:54%/49.5%/25%
Progress: 197%
Location: Rhode Island
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Thanks Steve. I guess my theory is substantiated then
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  #499   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 18:19
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dina1957
Nancy,
We are so much alike, I love all vegetables and even without lots of fat on them. After reading this thread, I feel a bit like a weirdo for liking "awfull" things like artichockes- just steamed with lemon and garlic (hold the mayo) asparagus- both steamed and broiled, bell pepper - sweet and crunchy, I eat them raw and roasted, young spring radishes and fresh persian cucumber with a sprinkle of sea salt - yummy, green onions - in salads and simpy on the side dipped in sea salt. Delicious green korean radish, bite-y and juicy, just cut in chunks or shreded with carrots for a great salad with lemon juice; all kind of lettuce: endive and radiccio included, beets - roasted with a splash of balsamic vinegar or fermented and made into a cold summer soup or borcht, or beet greens - sauteed with balsamic vinegar. Not to mention humble white cabbage and all her cousins, I can just cut it in chunks and eat it raw, or made into home made souerkraut, yum yum. My mouth waters when I think about helroom and cluster tomatoes, again, dont need dressing for those, and all varieties of onions and garlic, that I can't imagine cooking without. Delicious winter and summer squashes, steamed, baked, roasted and made into pancakes, eggplants roasted in the oven, add some lemon juice and a bit of olive oil - delicious, and don't forget thinly sliced fennel in salads or halved and roasted in the oven with turnips, which I love both - roots and greens, crunchy celery and meaty spinach...and the list goes on.
And don't get me started on fruits: crunchy juicy apples, tart marachino cherries, fragrant and delicious appricots, peaches and pears, perfume like smelling huge asian melons, juicy mangos and the king of fruit- ruby red pomegranate, and all variety of berries.
I did not mention potatoes and corn, since they are my least favorite and I almost never eat them, I think of them as grains, not veggie.
So all those who like vegetables and fruit are poisoning themselves, I guess. I am not arguing just trying to understand how anyone can live on meat and fat alone, even if this is 100% healthy, isn't it simply boring? JMHO
Hiya, dina!

You know, you should post this on Nancy's new thread!

BTW... corn IS a grain!

Oh... and you guys need to cut this out! You're making me HUNGRY! I do miss my fruits and veggies!
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  #500   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 18:24
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totoro
I don't post often, but I have been following this fascinating thread for awhile now. Very interesting!

I like veggies okay, but I have always wondered in the back of my mind if they were necessary, especially in the recommended quantities. And when I'm busy, they can be a hassle to prepare. But I felt like I "should", or felt guilty if I just ate chicken or steak and skipped the salad and veggie b/c I didn't feel like making them!

Also, I'm realizing now that when I eat a meal with a lot of veggies, I am just shy of feeling really satisfied.

From a Paleo point of view, I also just couldn't imagine hunter/gatherers sitting around eating a lot of vegetable matter. Broccoli and cauliflower are touted as great vegetables, but I can't imagine coming across a lot of those vegetables in the wild (of course, I know that my imagination has no bearing on whether or not they were actually available then).

Something else I wonder about but don't see mentioned very often--what about insects and small reptiles? It seems to me if big game wasn't available, the "low-hanging fruit" would be bugs, grubs, small snakes, lizards, etc. Those would provide protein (and fat?) to keep people going, I would think.
Totoro,

Thanks for posting!

I think you are VERY correct in what you are saying in this post! We may eat veggies now, but that does not mean we always did, or that they are necessary... just some of them are really GOOD! * just kidding * ...sorta

BTW... can you believe this is post #500?! What did Bear start?!

Last edited by PaleoDeano : Thu, Mar-09-06 at 18:37.
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  #501   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 18:47
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,793
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 212/179/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Rural Maine
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Just wanted to jump in here with something I read in (I think) one of the Protein Power books. Totoro mentioned something about eating the "low-hanging" fruit.

The gist of it was that in research into current hunter/gatherer populations, the collection of snails, insects, clams, and other marine life was categorized as the "gatherer" part rather than the "hunter" part, so that this marine life was in fact categorized as vegetable matter.

NOT!
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  #502   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 18:47
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serrelind
I can imagine these people eating vegetables, but only when there was no meat available or during lean times. Meat is so much more tasty than the vegetables and the dense calories would keep their belly full for a long time. Anyone tried to eat veggies w/o dressing or spices or butter or cheese on it? It's hard to get them down by themselves. However, I CAN imagine our ancestors eating fruits with gusto if they find them. Fruits are sweet and I think humans are naturally drawn toward sweet stuff.
Serrelind,

You are so correct about veggies not being satisfying without butter or cheese or the like... and, of course, they had nothing like this in the past. And the fruit that our ancestors had was not even sweet at all. So, I doubt they would have eaten them at all (except, as you say, during lean times). But, as others have pointed out... during lean times, I think they would have gone for grubs and other insects. Sorry, but I just don't see the reason they would have EVER eaten vegetation... that is for herbivores!

Last edited by PaleoDeano : Thu, Mar-09-06 at 18:55.
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  #503   ^
Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 20:35
theBear theBear is offline
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Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
Progress:
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Been down to sealevel yesterday to see the ear doc, so this is a long one-

Right- full cream milk here is 4.8gm / 100 ml. Must have been thinking fortified skim or something.

I don't weigh, measure or worry about the amounts I eat, whether it be protein or fat. I eat fat first if I can, until it feels right, and then lean till I feel satisfied. I don't eat anything like as much as I did in my 20's and 30's.

It is quite normal for ignorant people to claim that any diet other than the high carb, high veg one they learned from mum is 'unhealthy'. I doubt anyone would even consider the right diet unless they personally are having great difficulty with bodyfat. Those who are lucky in the genetic sweepstakes are fixed in what the consider is good nutrition. This has been my experience with literally thousands of people who I have told about my lifestyle over the very lengthy period I have been living it. So, deal with diet at your own space and forget about what happens elsewhere- normal weight people never accept our ways- even many of the obese have a hard time with it.

I like coconut cream, but it varies from brand to brand- the best is >30'% fat, no carbs. This lovely fatty stuff is very sensitive to heat, and turns to oil very quickly- you just can't heat it at all- add it last. I does not work in ice cream- it turns the whole thing to grease (butter?) as it is churned.

I live where the macadamia is native. We buy it in a 10 litre package from the mac oil extracting mob here in Queensland, it lasts us a year at least- cost: ~A$8/litre.

Generally in families where the meat is well-cooked, people do not like meat much, and do not eat very little of it.

I feel I am repeating some things over and over: The muscles do not, and cannot 'burn' glucose OR glycogen. The ONLY fuel the body uses is fat to run the muscle's contractions. Eating carbs interferes with fat metabolism, so keto-adaptation removes this problem- the 'wall'.

The body does do a bit of glucose-making to stabilise glycogen/glucose when needed, just as it will if you are below your native 'fatostat' setting, say you have dropped to around 5%, like a competing body builder- to say at that low fat level requires exact matching of caloric intake to calories burned, coupled with exercise. It is important the the diet supply sufficient protein, of course to spare incorporated protein. In dealing with protein in the muscles etc, one should be aware that the body is constantly breaking down and rebuilding the various protein structures anyway- like a mad mob of tiny housebuilders who dismantle the brick walls and pass the bricks around, rebuilding them as fast as they are taken apart- I have no idea why, but this is how it works. I think this is why you lose muscle mass you gain from exercising, if you don't continue to exercise. The body is very conservative relative to carrying mass, and does not maintain structures like muscle size and strength at levels beyond perceived current 'need'.

I mentioned that I have a paper (somewhere) which pouts to rest the idea that glycogen is used for energy.

I am carb free, I exercise anaerobically by lifting weights. I NEVER get sore muscles the next day- or the day after unless I am forcing a severe weight overload, which causes more severe micro damage to the muscles, and some second-day soreness. So there's the 'practical' proof that glycogen does not deplete with exercise.

Blood triglyceride is an ester, not a sugar. By further oxidation, one-half of a molecule of glucose can be derived from the glycerol moiety, but this tri-hydroxy alcohol represents only a very small percentage of the mass of the triglyceride molecule.

I take three or four ex-large eggs -very soft- with each meal, plus ~60 gm of camembert or brie. It makes the texture of the meat component easier to swallow.

My blood triglyceride level is always at the low end of 'normal'.

People 'eat that stuff' because their family ate them, and they were persistently fed them as babies until they accepted them as food.

I have never said I do not 'like' the usual vegetables people consider food, I learned to eat everything but turnips as a teen (thus my coronary problem). However I gave them away once I learned they are not good food for my body, full stop. I don't even think about them any more. People who wax eloquent about the rapture of eating various veggies are simply showing how very deep running their social conditioning is- to the point it has completely swamped any trace of instinct- instinct is why kids spit out veggies and make a face... People in this category never remain on a strict low to zero carb regime for very long, at least that has been my experience with a large number of 'attemptees'. Their mental state prevents it.

People who eat fibrous things should be aware of the damage this kind of rough, scratchy material does long term to the lining of the small intestine- It irritates it and causes a kind of 'callous' to form, which reduces the ability to extract nourishment from the chyme as it passes through.

Goat, like mutton is tough, kid is not, it is as soft and succulent as lamb...

Meat is not boring to a carnivore, only to a mixed-dieter, to whom all foods are quickly 'boring'.

Carnivores love each and every meal and eat to be nourished, not to be 'entertained'. The low level of gastronomic attraction of vegetables requires a lot of spice and theatre to keep you eating.

No amount of talk or sight of veggies/fruit makes the slightest impact on me- but then, I have had a lot of practice. I have successfully overcome my acculturation, a very unusual thing.

What indeed, did I start, dietary heretic that I am.

Other than as a guide to our lengthy period of evolution under a carnivorous lifestyle, resulting is the loss of tolerance for diet with a high carb/vegetable content, the actual diet of paleolithic people is not really of much value to us in today's modern world. Most of the animals they hunted for food are extinct, and we really do not have any solid data on what they may have consumed but did not bring home.
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Old Thu, Mar-09-06, 21:03
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Hey, Bear,

Welcome back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
I like coconut cream, but it varies from brand to brand- the best is >30'% fat, no carbs.
What kind do you use that has no carbs? I would love to try it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
I live where the macadamia is native.
Talk about living in the right place!
Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
The muscles do not, and cannot 'burn' glucose OR glycogen. The ONLY fuel the body uses is fat to run the muscle's contractions.
Thanks for clearing this up. Can you please direct me to studies that say this... when you find that paper? I want to show others that which they won't believe. I am sure it is correct, since our evolution would have heavily favored this type of metabolism, due to our dietary intake of fat, and lack of carbs. Makes a lot of sense... as most of what you are saying does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
one should be aware that the body is constantly breaking down and rebuilding the various protein structures anyway
This is a very true statement. Our cells are constantly manufacturing proteins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
People who eat fibrous things should be aware of the damage this kind of rough, scratchy material does
I agree. Thanks to you, I am going to avoid this damage.

Thanks for being here, Bear!

Last edited by PaleoDeano : Thu, Mar-09-06 at 21:11.
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