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  #61   ^
Old Mon, Feb-27-06, 13:42
JandLsMom's Avatar
JandLsMom JandLsMom is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,719
 
Plan: atkins induction
Stats: 330/330/165 Female 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Illinois
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thebear,
thanks for your response. I put mayo in tuna or in eggs. (eggsalad or tunasalad) thats about it. OH, and i make a hamburger patty with cheese and throw some mayo on it also. I'm a bit disappointed to find out that hard boiled eggs takes away some of the protein, i love them! Well, I am learning. I do cook in butter and barely use oils, except in salad, which i rarely eat. Thanks for bringing 47 years of wisdom and research to this board, its highly appreciated.
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  #62   ^
Old Mon, Feb-27-06, 13:49
foxgluvs's Avatar
foxgluvs foxgluvs is offline
From Flab to Fab!
Posts: 11,752
 
Plan: Fat Flush / SB
Stats: 300/225/185 Female 5ft 8"
BF:No Thanks
Progress: 65%
Location: UK
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duparc
'Bear' If you fail to understand to what I am alluding then why attempt to answer? I was wrong about the commercial aspect of your Web site but if you are not selling per se then what is its true purpose; merely a shop window? How does IQ connect to the authenticity of your statements? To throw-in my 2 cents worth, when last measured my IQ rating fell within the top 2% of the male population; so what? I too was aware of the research done by Dr Richard Makarness and the writings of the others but I don't buy your tale that as a young man in your early twenties (which was prior to the publication of Makarness's research findings) that you were sufficiently impressed nor motivated to commit yourself to being a martyr to the cause of low-carbing, the term, which was not then coined. Do try pulling the other leg, it has bigger bells on it!


Looks like we are in the minority Dupark....but I agree with everything you said.

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  #63   ^
Old Mon, Feb-27-06, 15:35
Terranova
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Plan:
Stats: //
BF:
Progress:
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Welcome, Bear! I am soo excited you decided to join here!

You've been a tremendous source of inspiration for my husband and I through the years. I am truly pleased you have come to share you experience in this forum!

Thanks again for your support and encouragement on eating the proper human diet.

*hugs*

Keepin Phaith Alive,
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  #64   ^
Old Mon, Feb-27-06, 15:41
theBear theBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
Progress:
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I see acculturation is alive and well, all the comments on vegetation as well as young kids copying mum are to be expected, as the eating of veggies is learned long before speech.

So far as duparc, I am appalled to find his mind so poisoned with his own calcified ego that he chooses to call me a liar. I have no need to lie. Why bother? The way I found the Eskimo/Inuit diet in 1958 is EXACTLY as I have recounted, and I resent narrow minded fools attacking my veracity and honour. No one has to follow my path, I am just trying to share it for those for whom it may be of use. I do not expect anyone to adapt the all meat lifestyle, it is against the basic modern's acculturation as noted, and my experience has verified the difficulty.

Creationist is it? Whew. Superstition should play no part in a modern educated person's life. This is not to say that the Universe is not a conscious entity, only to say that it works perfectly without a humanoid god-figure controlling it, and follows exactly all the rules of science and nature (I suggest reading a little book called the Kybalion). In my mind, the Universe is a constantly created thing which we are part of, and is not a clock wound up once and let go. Everything in Alchemy can be tested in science and science has proven evolution. But this is not really a part of dietary practice other than to say that life is just as conscious for plants as for animals. Plants are likely to be more conscious due to a lack of an ego limiting and focusing perception due to the need to move around a seek food. It is just that we are not able to understand plants. Some research (Backster)has verified their ability to respond to music and identify threat, etc. Life lives on life, whether an animal eats animals or plants it is the way organic creatures exist, face it. We are what our evolution has made us. If we began and remained herbivorous (which we did not- earliest primates were insectivores), we would be about as intelligent as the other animals which eat plants, like cattle and sheep. The development and maintenance of a large brain and high intelligence, is a very energy intensive undertaking- and is unlikely ever to occur in a herbivore who lives on very low quality, high mass foods- and none have.
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  #65   ^
Old Mon, Feb-27-06, 16:01
manaburrn's Avatar
manaburrn manaburrn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 575
 
Plan: Lots of milk+milk protein
Stats: 27.2/14.5/09.0 Male model, 6'1"
BF:lbs:237/200/212
Progress: 70%
Location: Upstate, SC
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Now theBear, I really appreciate your point of view, but if you would just tone down the acidity in your responses just a tad - I think that would keep this thead from getting locked. I have really enjoyed reading it so far.

You're starting to make me look not-so-confrontational in comparison, and that's not a compliment
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  #66   ^
Old Mon, Feb-27-06, 16:09
PlaneCrazy's Avatar
PlaneCrazy PlaneCrazy is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,146
 
Plan: Modified Paleo Atkins
Stats: 260/260/190 Male 71 inches
BF:Getting/Much/Bette
Progress: 0%
Location: Durham, North Carolina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
... If we began and remained herbivorous (which we did not- earliest primates were insectivores), we would be about as intelligent as the other animals which eat plants, like cattle and sheep. The development and maintenance of a large brain and high intelligence, is a very energy intensive undertaking- and is unlikely ever to occur in a herbivore who lives on very low quality, high mass foods- and none have.


Just one data point, gorillas are almost completely vegetarian, and orangutans eat mainly fruit, with bark, and leaves making up most of the difference during non-fuiting periods. They eat a very small amount of insects, but that is a small percentage of their diet.

This says nothing about what humans should eat, but just to point out that there are other large, related primates who are pretty much completely vegetarian. The primates who are closer to us genetically, chimps and bonobos are most definitely omnivorous. That last link is a very interesting article on chimp predatory behavior and possible relations to our distant ancestors' hunting behaviors.

Plane
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  #67   ^
Old Mon, Feb-27-06, 16:32
Duparc's Avatar
Duparc Duparc is offline
New Member
Posts: 586
 
Plan: self-designed
Stats: 216/189/190 Male tad under 6'
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Kirriemuir, Scotland
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PlaneCrazy I thought you had gone on a world cruise and died from over-eating. Nice to see your return!
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  #68   ^
Old Mon, Feb-27-06, 16:47
Rob21370's Avatar
Rob21370 Rob21370 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 225
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 336/297/140 Male 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 20%
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Default Welcome Bear!

Glad to see you here. Being Terra's hubby, I can say that Bear has been a wonderful resource and fountain of information on the diet. In fact, I read his essay and started the diet long before I even knew of the existance of Atkins, the Eades, et al.

Focus and discipline on the diet is easily the hardest thing I've ever done, as I've started and failed several times over the years.

In the end it's all mental and I'm convinced that this time I have the positive energy to succeed. There are not many people like Bear so I'm glad he's around to share.
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  #69   ^
Old Mon, Feb-27-06, 17:35
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,791
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 212/179/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Rural Maine
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Just wanted to jump in here and say that I'm thoroughly enjoying the give and take of this thread. Fascinating!

Just curious what everyone thinks of a gender and age facet to this argument. Any difference between men and women here? Any difference for a women "of the age"?

This is fun! Keep it up!!!
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  #70   ^
Old Mon, Feb-27-06, 18:00
Duparc's Avatar
Duparc Duparc is offline
New Member
Posts: 586
 
Plan: self-designed
Stats: 216/189/190 Male tad under 6'
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Kirriemuir, Scotland
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I am beginning to suspect that this thread has been hijacked by a religious sect called 'creationists' or maybe I am just becoming paranoid due to longevity! Seen it and heard it all before (as I pat a few yawns)!
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  #71   ^
Old Mon, Feb-27-06, 19:00
Fauve Fauve is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,274
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 167/135/127 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: Victoria, BC
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Fascinating post, Bear! You have answered quite a few of the questions I had on proper nutrition. It makes sense to me, and I will follow your way of eating as closely as I can manage. I am nearly there anyway. Thanks for all the info.
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  #72   ^
Old Mon, Feb-27-06, 19:40
quax's Avatar
quax quax is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 95
 
Plan: relaxed Paleo
Stats: 194/154/154 Male 177 cm
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Germany
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If the real human diet is a totally carnivorous one, so when and especially WHY did the Aborigines (and other hunter-gatherers) include plant food in their diet? Where the lads suddenly tired of going hunting all the time? Why go through all the hassle of hunting, simply hang out at home and let the ladies get some fruit and tubers.

I haven’t met anyone in my entire life yet who doesn’t like sweet stuff (ice cream, cookies, fruit, or whatever). If we had been purely carnivorous, this trait, e.g. the sweet tooth, would have been lost during evolution since there hadn’t been any advantage in keeping it. I have a hard time believing that a taste for sweet stuff stems purely from the period birth to 8. However, I know to little about taste buds and their development.
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  #73   ^
Old Mon, Feb-27-06, 19:56
TheCaveman's Avatar
TheCaveman TheCaveman is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,429
 
Plan: Angry Paleo
Stats: 375/205/180 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Sacramento, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
It requires a powerful will and a determination to change, in order to succeed in adopting the 'extreme' diet which this website is based on.


I see that will is a requirement for the changes you propose. Yet, I'm confused when you talk about will, and then claim:

Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
nothing I have written in my posts or on my site is a 'guess', it is all verifiable fact. I do not deal in guesses nor belief systems.


How are you defining "will", then? Do you think that will exists?
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  #74   ^
Old Mon, Feb-27-06, 20:09
Wyvrn's Avatar
Wyvrn Wyvrn is offline
Dog is my copilot
Posts: 1,448
 
Plan: paleo/lowcarb
Stats: 210/162/145 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Olympia, WA
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I mostly agree with the meat/fat theory, but I do get a few calories on a daily basis from non-starchy veggies, mainly brassicas and herbs. I much prefer them fermented, slathered with butter, or with a vinegrette dressing. In this preference I see a possible link to the fact that when our ancestors killed their prey, often a large ruminent, it often had a stomach full of fermenting vegetable matter, and that this material, like the organ meats, could have been a superior source of certain nutrients to the hunters.

So pardon me if I have a bit of sauerkraut or kimchi, or a nice wild greens salad with vinagrette to go with my slab-o-beef

Wyv
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  #75   ^
Old Mon, Feb-27-06, 23:27
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyvrn
when our ancestors killed their prey, often a large ruminent, it often had a stomach full of fermenting vegetable matter, and that this material, like the organ meats, could have been a superior source of certain nutrients to the hunters.

So pardon me if I have a bit of sauerkraut or kimchi, or a nice wild greens salad with vinagrette to go with my slab-o-beef

Wyv
This article (one of my all time favorites) makes many mentions of fermenting matter in herbivore intestines as being very nutritious!
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