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  #31   ^
Old Fri, Feb-15-13, 15:17
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbmoore
Back to the low carb/cancer connection. We have several people on this website who are suffering with, or have succomed to cancer. I know there are no absolutes, but I do know that at least two or more of my low carb friends here had been low carbing for a long time. I'm not schooled in medical jargon, and I'll have to do some digging to be sure I'm understanding what I'm reading, so if this comment isn't applicable to this discussion, please disregard. I just thought I'd post it to see if there are any explanations for this observation.

Explanation on why two people out of how many thousands who have posted here have cancer? I can't answer that, other than simple probability.
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  #32   ^
Old Fri, Feb-15-13, 15:18
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
I have been testing safe starches for less than two weeks and will need to do so much longer. But so far, for me, Sweet Potato worked like a charm bringing BS down; white rice not at all, and it changes daily. Eat sweet potato with dinner, next morning the BS is low and I can fast to noon, no hunger. Eat white rice, the next morning BS is high and I am hungry early. A weekly dose of carbs wouldn't work for me, at least so far... but I haven't ventured into the land of white potato, boiled and cooled into "resistent starch"...yet. I really would like to "just eat real food".

I did experiment with "safe starches" for awhile and found, like you, sweet potato wasn't bad but white rice was terrible. White potato was iffy too.
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  #33   ^
Old Fri, Feb-15-13, 15:42
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Daryl Daryl is offline
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Plan: ZC
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Do sweet potatoes have a lot of fiber? Would that slow or blunt the spike?
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  #34   ^
Old Sat, Feb-16-13, 07:19
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JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Plan: P:E/DDF
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Sweet potatoes do have more fiber than rice, but some of the other rules of eating safe starches blunts the difference. To avoid hyperglycemic reactions, must also eat any starch with vegetables(so way more fiber), fats, and an acid, after cooking them gently and cooling. You can understand why I am becoming cranky about adding any more food rules.

But back to Dr Edes diet, it is interesting that her FBG has dropped quickly, where mine has increased over 30 months eating less than 50 g carbs, but not to the extreme levels she is trying. This might work well in the short term, but as a long term solution to remain in ketosis for possible cancer protection, it appears easier to eat a diet that avoids physiological insulin resistance from developing in the first place.
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  #35   ^
Old Sat, Feb-16-13, 09:39
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Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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We don't really even know if physiological insulin resistance, where we have high FBG's and they're lower after eating, is even a problem.

We do, however, know that high postprandial blood sugar is a problem.

Dr. Syefried recommended that everyone do a 7 day fast every year to nip any young cancers in the bud. I think she's exploring this via ketosis because fasting is so difficult for many of us.

Anyway, I'm following this with keen interest. The only thing I could wish for is that she got a dexa scan to measure muscle mass before and after.
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  #36   ^
Old Sat, Feb-16-13, 09:57
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Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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I just posted another comment to Dr. Ede, on the 2nd week of ketosis, about this thread and the potential issue of mucin and whether her muscle mass is at risk and whether she's getting enough sodium.
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  #37   ^
Old Sat, Feb-16-13, 09:59
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Liz53 Liz53 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Explanation on why two people out of how many thousands who have posted here have cancer? I can't answer that, other than simple probability.


The other thing is that there are many types and causes for cancer. This book focuses on those that are improved by reducing insulin, and his expertise is brain tumors, if I recall correctly. He does NOT claim to cure all cancers with his diet.
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  #38   ^
Old Sat, Feb-16-13, 10:29
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jbmoore jbmoore is offline
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Thanks for your responses to my observation. There are many contributing causes to cancer, and diet, I'm sure, is one of them.
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  #39   ^
Old Sun, Feb-17-13, 16:31
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Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
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I wrote a comment to Dr. Ede about some of the things we discussed here and here is her reply.

Quote:
Hi Twin


I really appreciate the crowdsourcing help! Thanks, crowd!


I haven't looked into the long-term physiological insulin resistance myself yet, but will do that at some point...if only I didn't have to sleep and see patients I would know everything already All I can say at this point is that insulin resistance is not always a bad thing. It spares glucose for the brain, for example. I think insulin resistance may only be a problem if you're eating too many carbs...because that really taxes the insulin system. Insulin's primary purpose is not to process carbohydrate. It is to act as a growth hormone under certain special conditions (childhood/adolescence, pregnancy, etc.). Maybe the body is only supposed to be sensitive to insulin under certain circumstances. I don't know enough about this topic yet to say anything more intelligent than that yet...


I'd never considered a muscle scan, and shouldn't pay for one rig ht now, but even if I could, it might be confounded by exercise...which I plan to add back to my regimen very soon. Theoretically I believe the opposite to be true of carbs and muscle--it is well-established that body protein is broken down regularly on standard low-calorie diets that contain significant carbohydrate (see carbohydrate page and also low-cal diets page). I doubt muscle loss is an issue with ketogenic diets, but I really don't know for sure. I don't know, maybe I should invest in this scan after all...I'll think about it...


My eyes are only dry on certain mornings upon waking (for about 30 mins), and at least for me, it's been about olives. Yesterday I ate zero olives for the first time in many days, and no dry eyes this morning. I have never had constipation on an all-meat diet, even when I did it for a full 90 days last summer. I believe constipation is about what IS eaten, not about what is NOT eaten, if you follow me. I used to have a major problem in this area before I changed my diet 6 years ago, so I am no stranger to the issue. When I ate a "standard" Atkins diet over 10 yrs ago for a month or more, it was a major issue, for example. For me it seemed to be about nuts, dairy, crucifers, and soy foods (also see my blog post about constipation if you haven't already).


The fact that my blood sugar levels were so much higher on 75 g of protein than on 50 g of protein suggests to me that my body wasn't using that extra protein to build muscle or enzymes or mucus or anything else...it was just turning it into blood glucose--far in excess of what anyone needs in the bloodstream. Unhealthy levels of blood glucose. Even according to the Jaminets, hyperglycemia is perilous. I do agree with them on that. How would they propose I lower my blood glucose below 90's then? I was already eating very low carbs, and even low calories on many days. Lowering protein really did the trick.


On pa ges 32 and 33 of the Jaminet's book, they write several paragraphs about the "dangers of glucose deficiency" and cite exactly zero sources to support their bold claims. I find that to be very unfortunate. It doesn't mean that the theory is definitely false, or that it may not be true for some individuals, but without any evidence, it will remain in my mind as a belief of theirs that each individual would need to test for him/herself.


Thanks, twin, for your continued interest and the great questions--much food for thought!
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  #40   ^
Old Sun, Feb-17-13, 17:21
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OregonRose OregonRose is offline
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Plan: Meat.
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Nancy, I just wanted to say thanks for "crowdsourcing" your great questions to Dr. Ede. They've elicited such interesting responses from her!
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  #41   ^
Old Sun, Feb-17-13, 17:25
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
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I can't believe how thoughtful and complete her answers are. I love it.
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  #42   ^
Old Sun, Feb-17-13, 20:15
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Daryl Daryl is offline
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I like her mind!
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  #43   ^
Old Mon, Feb-18-13, 06:22
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
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Progress: 134%
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She must be using the original PHD book, nothing on my p 32-33. The new Scribners edition is 50% longer, has a different structure, and all citations are on the website. The Jaminets concept of a "natural carbohydrate intake" is in a chapter on carbs. Five steps are listed to add some safe starch to meet that intake, while muting the hyperglycemic response. People have seen lower FBG by adding carbs but she has dismissed the concept without trying it herself.
Admittedly, I haven't figured out how to also remain in ketosis while adding carbs, but lower FBG can result if managed well.
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  #44   ^
Old Mon, Feb-18-13, 09:25
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OregonRose OregonRose is offline
Wag more, bark less.
Posts: 692
 
Plan: Meat.
Stats: 216/149/145 Female 65.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 94%
Location: Eugene
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Jey100, maybe they took their "glucose deficiency" warnings out of their new book; if so, that's a big improvement. I'm less concerned with their "safe starch" business -- lots of people seem to tolerate starches, or at least they don't fatten on them, so I'm at peace with human variation. But on the Perfect Health blog a couple of years ago, they sounded a huge alarm about "Zero Carb diets and the dangers of glucose deficiency." It was, not to put too fine a point on it, a load of crap (he didn't eat zero carb, or even close to it; his symptoms were not indicative of scurvy, as he thought they were; and the "mucin deficiency" was purely observational -- in decades of people eating VLC and ZC diets, there were no reports of this until he raised the alarm on his blog, and suddenly lots of Paleo people who wanted to eat rice or potatoes began to "suffer" from this "syndrome," lol).

This is what I believe Dr. Ede is dismissing; I don't see where she's dismissing the addition of safe starches to the diets of people who can tolerate it.
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  #45   ^
Old Mon, Feb-18-13, 09:55
PilotGal PilotGal is offline
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Plan: KetoCarnivore
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i have enjoyed reading all the questions you all are asking her...
it's nice to be able to think "I know these people."
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