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  #1   ^
Old Sat, Jan-16-10, 09:27
robmedina robmedina is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 178
 
Plan: paleo adaptation
Stats: 248/215/200 Male 70
BF:
Progress: 69%
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ
Default Distance running on LC

I have been LC since 1/4 and started back running sometime in December. I did do the raw food diet last year and although I felt great and I was able to run 8minute miles, I noticed that the first time I ran on Raw I did 8 miles, second time 6 and kept going down from there- the more fat I lost the shorter my distances would be.
Now that I am LC (I don't really follow any one plan- more paleo than anything) I am wondering if I will feel the same way.
I do know this subject has been beaten to death- but I am just curious if any real people out there eating real foods are able to successfully run marathon or even half marathon distances all LC-
I am going to try- I will let you know how I make out.
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  #2   ^
Old Sat, Jan-16-10, 15:54
jschwab jschwab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,523
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/191/195 Female 5 feet 5 inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Default

I am in the "no" category. I lost on LC and eventually at my bottom weight felt awful and got injured. I was training (not crazy mileage - about 30 miles per week - more than I'd run ever before, though). I gained back 20 pounds while training and felt better. I *want* to run without carbs but I am not sure it's right for my body, but finding a balance is hard. Mostly I just try do what I need to do not to get injured, but it usually means weight gain. It sucks.
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  #3   ^
Old Sat, Jan-16-10, 17:07
sybil878's Avatar
sybil878 sybil878 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 157
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 175/166/150 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 36%
Location: Alberta, Canada
Default

I'm in the yes category. I just finished my first full marathon and although I did carbo load for the race I did many training runs completely LC without problems. This is something that I've worked up to though over 8 months. In the early LC eating days for me if I ran/cycled more than 2 hours I would bonk hard. Now I'm good to go!
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  #4   ^
Old Sun, Jan-17-10, 03:47
robmedina robmedina is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 178
 
Plan: paleo adaptation
Stats: 248/215/200 Male 70
BF:
Progress: 69%
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sybil878
I'm in the yes category. I just finished my first full marathon and although I did carbo load for the race I did many training runs completely LC without problems. This is something that I've worked up to though over 8 months. In the early LC eating days for me if I ran/cycled more than 2 hours I would bonk hard. Now I'm good to go!


Can you give any detail? Was it just a matter of getting the body used to burning fat? was it a trial and error on diet? was it running at 75% max like I have recently read about (where you train LC and run 75% and then when you race you run hard and load up with carbs- supposedly makes you so much more efficient at burning carbs for fuel on race day)

It will be interesting to see how I run when I am down 50 or 60lbs. Obviously I wont need as much fuel because I will be a lot lighter- I am looking forward to finding out.

So any information you could provide would be helpful.
Thank you!
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  #5   ^
Old Sun, Jan-17-10, 09:55
jschwab jschwab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,523
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/191/195 Female 5 feet 5 inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sybil878
I'm in the yes category. I just finished my first full marathon and although I did carbo load for the race I did many training runs completely LC without problems. This is something that I've worked up to though over 8 months. In the early LC eating days for me if I ran/cycled more than 2 hours I would bonk hard. Now I'm good to go!



I am wondering what you mean by "many training runs", though. Is that all your training runs under three hours? All your midweek runs? Everything that you weren't doing the first time? I have done the majority of my training runs low-carb - it's the 12+ milers in the heat that killed me. Even if I was careful the rest of the time, those long runs meant gaining weight, KWIM? And what is LC for you? I can only lose on 25 carb grams per day or less, regardless of how much I am working out. So, even if I'm running on 40-60g per day, I am still gaining rapidly.
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  #6   ^
Old Mon, Jan-18-10, 08:37
sybil878's Avatar
sybil878 sybil878 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 157
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 175/166/150 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 36%
Location: Alberta, Canada
Default

I eat VLC - basically meat & eggs with occasional nuts thrown into the mix.

Early on if my training runs were over 2 hours I'd bonk. Now some of my training runs were 4+ hours. I'd generally have some coconut oil chocolates during the run to keep me going ... maybe an orange at christmas. A few times I'd have a gel or two while running since this was my race strategy. I try to stay in ketosis while running even when I was using gels.

The rest of my weekly workouts I'd have nothing. (They range from an hour run to an hour in the pool to a 90 minute spin class) I feel like now I could do any of my runs without any carbs no matter how long they are. I also do heart rate training though and my long runs are definitely easy runs, keeping my target heart rate around 140. If I was running with my heart rate at or close to my lactate threshold (for me in the 160's) I would expect I would bonk at some point after 2 or 3 hours, so maybe that's the difference.

As far as gaining weight, not really. Maybe some water weight the day after a 4 hour run. Your body releases a hormone in reaction to a large stress that causes water retention, so it's perfectly normal to gain. My DH runs 100 mile races and he often weighs more at the end of the race due to water retention. This is also why people who just start going to the gym often experience a gain in the first week.

I don't know what KWIM means.
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Jan-19-10, 03:11
robmedina robmedina is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 178
 
Plan: paleo adaptation
Stats: 248/215/200 Male 70
BF:
Progress: 69%
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ
Default

Sybil- I was just reading somewhere that if you run at 75% on training runs (in Ketosis) your body becomes so effecient at using energy that when you do run on race day you can carb up and get drastically better times.
I am still just trying to work my way through ketosis.

I have only done up to 9 miles in this LC state- I did a run/ walk not run only as I am just getting back into running. I actually should not be attempting to go that far just yet- but you know how it is with runners.
Anyway- I have another 50lbs of weight loss- so it will be interesting to see how I run with less fat (less fuel per say) and also when I am lighter, my fuel needs will be less-We shall see-
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  #8   ^
Old Tue, Jan-19-10, 20:19
jschwab jschwab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,523
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/191/195 Female 5 feet 5 inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sybil878
I eat VLC - basically meat & eggs with occasional nuts thrown into the mix.

Early on if my training runs were over 2 hours I'd bonk. Now some of my training runs were 4+ hours. I'd generally have some coconut oil chocolates during the run to keep me going ... maybe an orange at christmas. A few times I'd have a gel or two while running since this was my race strategy. I try to stay in ketosis while running even when I was using gels.

The rest of my weekly workouts I'd have nothing. (They range from an hour run to an hour in the pool to a 90 minute spin class) I feel like now I could do any of my runs without any carbs no matter how long they are. I also do heart rate training though and my long runs are definitely easy runs, keeping my target heart rate around 140. If I was running with my heart rate at or close to my lactate threshold (for me in the 160's) I would expect I would bonk at some point after 2 or 3 hours, so maybe that's the difference.

As far as gaining weight, not really. Maybe some water weight the day after a 4 hour run. Your body releases a hormone in reaction to a large stress that causes water retention, so it's perfectly normal to gain. My DH runs 100 mile races and he often weighs more at the end of the race due to water retention. This is also why people who just start going to the gym often experience a gain in the first week.

I don't know what KWIM means.


That's really helpful information. KWIM means "know what I mean". I gain actual poundage whether or not doing lower than 20g carbs a day or not, but I can see it getting easier over time. I have only been running for two years.
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  #9   ^
Old Sat, Mar-06-10, 12:45
burbuja burbuja is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 319
 
Plan: Paleo - VLC
Stats: 163/175/140 Female 64
BF:
Progress: -52%
Location: Colorado
Default

Glad to see this post. Back in 2003, I took a whole year to train for a marathon that I ran in 2004. I was high-carb, low-fat and while I ran pretty well, I never lost weight. My running weight back then was in the mid 140's, which on my 5'4 frame is at the very high end of normal. I always wondered how someone running so many miles could still need to lose a few pounds.

Now that I am 4 months post-pregnancy, trying to lose my baby weight, I am considering joining a running club. (Denverfit.com) I am scared because I have only done moderate exercise on LC, but I am also wondering if running and LC would get me into the 120 weight range, which is really ideal for me.

I'm a little nervous to begin because there really aren't a ton of LC runners out there and I wonder if there's a reason for that. Anyhow.. I would love to see if there are any other LC long distance runners that post... would love to hear more words of encouragement.
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, Mar-07-10, 03:59
robmedina robmedina is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 178
 
Plan: paleo adaptation
Stats: 248/215/200 Male 70
BF:
Progress: 69%
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ
Default

[QUOTE=burbuja]I'm a little nervous to begin because there really aren't a ton of LC runners out there and I wonder if there's a reason for that. [QUOTE=burbuja]

I think the biggest reason is people have been fed the wrong information for so long. I did a RAW food diet last year, which consisted of raw fruit and veggies (organic to boot) I lost 20lbs really quickly (20 days) My resting hear rate went from 84 (pre-diet) to 54bpm. I felt really good (even though the food was outrageously expensive) I felt hungry all the time but would just eat a huge salad or a bunch of fruit. It felt good to just be able to eat when I was hungry without gaining weight. The two downsides to this were #1 I could not afford to purchase the food long term ($1,000 in food for 20 days just for me) #2 I had only enough energy to do minimal things- When I would run on this diet, I would get to a certain point and just conk. That distance got shorter with the longer period of time I was on it.

So when I started LC I thought the same thing would happen. My HR was again 84 before LC, it is now 63. MY runs are actually faster now and greater distances. Because your body is using fat for fuel (which is 9 calories per gram as opposed to 4 calories for carbs) you actually get a little over twice the volume of energy and you don't get that lactic acid buildup (the burn).

Another thing I love about this is that before I would be nervous if I ate enough food the night before a big run and if I had enough "Gu" with me, now I don't even bother, because it doesn't matter if I ate small or large the day before, I am using body fat.

Today I am running a trail run, my running group is doing 26.2 miles (2 loops of one trail and an out and back of another trail) I am going to do 1 loop, but if I feel good I may do 2- giving me 20. I will let you know how I make out.
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Mar-07-10, 11:58
black57 black57 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,822
 
Plan: atkins/intermit. fasting
Stats: 166/136/135 Female 5'3''
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: Orange, California
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I am , by far, not an athlete. However, the older I get I like to make some athetic endeavors a part of my life's journeys. I participated in a 5K run about 15 years ago. I came in "BUTT LAST" and pretty much walked the entire distance. I had tried to prepare for this but I did a sucky job. I participated in the carb-loading party that took place the night before.

I was in my mid-thirties at that time. Fast-forward: before turning fifty, I wanted to do another 5K "run", especially since I decided to become a low carber. This time I trained and was able to run completely run the distance of 5 kilometers, albeit slowly. I didn't care, I just wanted to be able to do it. When the time came to do the run, not only did I run the entire distance, I did it following protein-loading, I was older, and I was heavier. Yes, I was heavier runner then than when I did this in my thirties and carb-loading.

I am going to try and do another run this year because, not only am I getting older ( dam, I hate when that happens ) but now I combine LC with IF. I exercise while during my fasting period and my body responds well to that. I have been walking 30 minutes to an hour on a daily basis. My running isn't much faster than my walking. Having a goal like this keeps me physically active. It's all good.
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  #12   ^
Old Sun, Mar-07-10, 13:09
jschwab jschwab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,523
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/191/195 Female 5 feet 5 inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by black57
I am , by far, not an athlete. However, the older I get I like to make some athetic endeavors a part of my life's journeys. I participated in a 5K run about 15 years ago. I came in "BUTT LAST" and pretty much walked the entire distance. I had tried to prepare for this but I did a sucky job. I participated in the carb-loading party that took place the night before.

I was in my mid-thirties at that time. Fast-forward: before turning fifty, I wanted to do another 5K "run", especially since I decided to become a low carber. This time I trained and was able to run completely run the distance of 5 kilometers, albeit slowly. I didn't care, I just wanted to be able to do it. When the time came to do the run, not only did I run the entire distance, I did it following protein-loading, I was older, and I was heavier. Yes, I was heavier runner then than when I did this in my thirties and carb-loading.

I am going to try and do another run this year because, not only am I getting older ( dam, I hate when that happens ) but now I combine LC with IF. I exercise while during my fasting period and my body responds well to that. I have been walking 30 minutes to an hour on a daily basis. My running isn't much faster than my walking. Having a goal like this keeps me physically active. It's all good.


I find my weight is fairly meaningless when it comes to how fast I am - training and overall health is way more of a factor. Running three miles straight twice in your life already puts you ahead of the vast majority of the population in terms of grit and determination to be active and physically, well, capable. I can't wait to hear about your next race!
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  #13   ^
Old Sun, Mar-07-10, 20:23
black57 black57 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,822
 
Plan: atkins/intermit. fasting
Stats: 166/136/135 Female 5'3''
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: Orange, California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jschwab
I find my weight is fairly meaningless when it comes to how fast I am - training and overall health is way more of a factor. Running three miles straight twice in your life already puts you ahead of the vast majority of the population in terms of grit and determination to be active and physically, well, capable. I can't wait to hear about your next race!


I guess that I have committed myself now, huh?
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  #14   ^
Old Sun, Mar-07-10, 20:41
jschwab jschwab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,523
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/191/195 Female 5 feet 5 inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by black57
I guess that I have committed myself now, huh?


Yup. Do I need to come to California to make sure you do it?
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