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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Feb-14-17, 13:03
MicheZ's Avatar
MicheZ MicheZ is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 89
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 253/210/150 Female 5' 8"
BF:
Progress: 42%
Location: Colorado
Default Insulin and low carb frustration!


I've been doing low-carb for about a month now and my blood sugar numbers are coming down, but sometimes too low. I recently had a couple of readings in the 50s around 4 AM. I read something, maybe on Diet Doctor, about not treating a low with fast sugar because it can be a trigger for sugar - I've experienced this in the past, so I'm trying to just lower Lantus, but it's so hit and miss for me.

I'm on Metformin 1,000 mg 2 x day Lantus. When I started my most recent LC quest, I was taking 60 units of Lantus am & pm, and I've reduced it to 40 units am & pm. I've just started reading Dr. Fung - and posts here about IF - and was wondering about implementing IF. Does it help to be more firmly into LCHF or even Keto before starting IF? Is LCHF the first step, and Keto the second? I've dabbled in LC before and even kept about 20 lbs. off (about 5 years ago). Then, it's been off and on since. I've had diabetes for about 15 years and been on only Metformin and Lantus with Lantus dosing increasing with doctor recommendations. I've had a couple of good doctors work with me through the years, but mostly I've been winging it.
I get most of my information from this website, doctor Bernstein's books and the diet doctor website. Looking for help and suggestions.
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Feb-14-17, 13:25
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Welcome back, Miche
Please don't wing it! Read the advice about meds in the Warning sticky above ^^^. (You have posted there before but the thread has since been made a sticky) Ideally you would have a doctor help you reduce meds, but to avoid lows, most LC docs reduce the meds even before patient starts LC. Quote from DietDoctor article in that thread: "As a general guide you may need to lower your doses by 30-50% or more when starting a strict low-carb diet." I know patients where it was a 50% reduction in advance of a 20g carb diet.

IF is definitely easier if you fast after being VLC/Ketogenic and well "fat-adapted", but Dr Fung uses long fasts with patients who have been eating HC diets. If you stay Ketogenic, the first 24 hours is a snap since so many who do Keto can eat one meal day no problem anyway. Day 2 and 3 is harder but I believe less difficult than if you were still a sugar-burner. You could start on a less strict LCHF, then move to Keto (less than 20g and moderate protein) but starting at 20 g isn't that hard either. But adjust your meds and monitor your BG!

Last edited by JEY100 : Tue, Feb-14-17 at 13:36.
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Feb-14-17, 17:47
MicheZ's Avatar
MicheZ MicheZ is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 89
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 253/210/150 Female 5' 8"
BF:
Progress: 42%
Location: Colorado
Default

Thanks for the info Janet! I had stumbled on that sticky and chuckled because I'm dealing with the same issue = slow learner?!! I'm "winging it" because my current doctor is more than willing to write me prescriptions, but not much else. I know LC works for lowering my blood sugar and I would really like to reduce medications. When I had this issue previously, the Diabetes educator told me to take the glucose tabs, wait 15 minutes, and eat half a sandwich 🙄 She also said NOT to reduce insulin, but decrease the Metformin. The next doctor told me he would write me prescriptions for diet pills! The doctor after that gave me hope of being someone I could work with - she had even heard of LC and was supportive - but, she moved to another state! It's been a downward doctor spiral since then which is why I'm "winging it".
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Feb-14-17, 18:26
Justin Jor Justin Jor is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 184
 
Plan: Bernsteinish
Stats: 314/231/199 Male 6'1
BF:
Progress: 72%
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So, my experiences. I am not a doctor.

1. I need to eat pretty close to zero carbs to get my blood sugar under control. I am usually under 10 grams a day, but the Bernstein rec of no more than 30 grams is good. Almond flour can do wonderous things, if you miss bread.

2. Sugar alcohols and fancy ogligosaccharides act differently on my blood sugar, but they ultimately raise my blood sugar. I recommend eating real food only.

3. Read the labels for EVERYTHING.

4. IF definitely makes compliance easier. If you're only eating twice a day, well, you only have to make the choice to eat right once or twice a day.

5. I can't tell if IF makes a difference in blood sugar beyond that. I've never been able to tell a difference.

6. If you're adding supplements, add one at a time and don't change anything else for a week, so you know what works. For me, ALA and vanadium work. Everything else doesn't. But that's me. I'm trying out apple cider vinegar, then more magnesium, then bitter melon, and then wine. Yes, wine.

7. For me, Jason Fung is for sure right about insulin causing insulin resistance. I'm off Lantus, and my blood sugars have actually improved. It doesn't happen right away, but it does happen. I had a 73 the other day, which I think is literally the lowest I ever measured it.

8. Because of seven, I am going off medicines in the order of how they affect insulin. So the first thing for me was insulin (obviously) then the next thing to go is glyburide. Metformin, I have no intention of going off of, since I've not had any sides and it's got benefits beyond diabetes.

9. Activity helps a lot too.

10. Most diabetes educators are insane, and should be sued into oblivion.

Your mileage may vary.
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Feb-15-17, 04:57
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Sorry to hear about the downward doctor spiral. Dr Gerber is still in LIttleton, has a lovely PA Erynn I have heard interviewed who handles some cases, and they have a LC support group too. (Also a LC conference in Breckinridge this month)

I believe you said he was 100 miles away...Consider phoning and explain the situation to learn what CO allows to be done remotely...also ask if they know someone good in your area. My understanding in NC, after one in-person appointment, the doctor can advise by phone, depends on case of course. Maybe CO too?
Also watch the Dr Westman videos on DietDoctor about his clinical experience with diabetes. He uses case examples with amounts of insulin, speed of reduction, BG readings, etc. Like Justin, most patients drop the insulin first then later the metformin. If you stay at a 20-30g carb diet, your need to reduce insulin can happen quickly. Better to let your BG go high for a few days than to risk a low.
If you want an easy program to follow, send for the Welcome Kit at HealClinics.com. The program and some recipes are emailed immediately. At the last support meeting, the woman speaking at minute 8:45 has an inspiring story. https://www.facebook.com/ketocasey/...728234507327066
Off insulin in one month, only eats what is on "page 4” for a year (now page 12-14) and her DH has also droppped meds.

Last edited by JEY100 : Wed, Feb-15-17 at 06:43.
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Feb-15-17, 08:18
MicheZ's Avatar
MicheZ MicheZ is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 89
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 253/210/150 Female 5' 8"
BF:
Progress: 42%
Location: Colorado
Default

Justin Jor and Janet - thank you. I'm apologizing in advance for the length and ramblings!

Thank you Justin Jor for your response - I understand the disclaimer "I am not a doctor" and truly appreciate your help. One good thing about those diabetic education classes was the advice to read the labels! 🙂 I'm trying to eat real food mostly, but do add the fake sugars sometimes - and love almond flour! I do the ACV at night for leg cramps and have found a multi vitamin supplement I think actually helps! Eventually, I'd like to stop using it, and try the 'one supplement at a time' method, but not there quite yet.

I've been in denial for most of my diabetic life and until about five years ago, didn't do anything but go to doctors, get prescriptions, and bad advice. I'm extremely blessed and/or lucky, because I don't have any major complications! And, my blood sugar responds very well to low carb - I don't even have dawn phenomenon, because my morning numbers are low.

So, I'm eating LC, not always LCHF though, and trying to lower my insulin and avoid hypo's. Dropped my pm dose to 35 last night, tested 78 an hour ago (probably why it's taking forever to write this - well, and I'm doing it on my phone! &#128580 I'm also eating much lighter than I usually do - visiting son & family (sweet! Grandkid's are awesome!) and less stress, for now.
I've been rereading Dr. Bernstein and Jenny Ruel and trying to get my diabetes figured out before complications find me. My dad was diabetic, had Alzheimer's, and cancer - triple whammy! And my brother has diabetes, first diagnosed with Type 2, but more informed doctor changed it to Type 1. He's had a quadruple by-pass and lots of D complications, so I know the risks are real and I've been lucky!

Janet - I also remembered your suggestion about Dr. Gerber. Unfortunately, I'm not in a position, literally, to make that work! 😐 Traveling, DH's job, so I'm not in CO currently. I also remember the long ago comments about bone broth - still not there personally, but maybe one day! I will check out Dr. Westman's link. I've "lurked" and followed many of your links - thanks! Your advice and knowledge is greatly appreciated.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Feb-15-17, 08:25
MicheZ's Avatar
MicheZ MicheZ is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 89
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 253/210/150 Female 5' 8"
BF:
Progress: 42%
Location: Colorado
Default

Sorry about the "&#125850". Not a clue - auto correct demon!
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Jul-21-17, 21:53
VLC.MD VLC.MD is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 220
 
Plan: Atkins/LCHF
Stats: 209/185/185 Male 69
BF:reducing
Progress: 100%
Location: Toronto, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MicheZ
I'm on Metformin 1,000 mg 2 x day Lantus.

Is that metformin 1000mg twice daily
Lantus 60 units twice daily ?

A more natural insulin might be humalog. It is short acting.
Dr. Fung likes short acting insulin better than long acting as it is more natural (mimic pulsitile hormones). I would also think it be useful in bringing down your sugars periodically as you keep weaning Lantus.
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  #9   ^
Old Sat, Jul-22-17, 03:57
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

VLC. MicheZ last posted on February 15..watch the dates on forum threads, especially if from a search...it can dig up threads from the early 2000s.

If you tap on any name here, the profile, post history, photos etc come up to see if that person is still posting here.

MicheZ...if you get a notification for this thread, please let us know how you are doing Thanks,
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