Hi guys!

First off, not sure if this post is in the right area, moderators please feel free to move it if its out of place!

Well, when I was trying to calculate my goal weight, I used my BF percentage to see how much fat I had on me:

169 lbs, 38% BF = about 105 lbs lean mass, 64 lbs fat mass.

So that means 105 pounds of me is not something I'd want to lose, correct? And obviously I can't be ALL lean mass, I'm aiming for a 21 or 22% BF. So -- how does this work? Will I lose some of that lean mass? I was thinking this might be a better goal, if I won't be losing much lean mass:

120 lbs, 21% BF = 95 lbs lean mass, 25 lbs fat.

Is this a reasonable goal, or will I lose more lean mass than that? I figure if I wanted to get down to 105 and have a 22% BF I would have to have about 82 lbs lean mass and 23 lbs fat. But I don't think I want to lose 23 lbs of lean mass . . . do I??

As you can see I am quite muddled here! Any advice would be most appreciated.

Dolly, you're right! You definitely don't want to be losing any lean mass. Losing body fat is great, losing lean mass will lower your metabolism and make your job of being lean, strong and healthy that much more difficult.

There is a thread in the BFL subforum about using BF% as goals , about half way down the thread is a post giving examples of what BF% at various weights means from a lean mass/bf stand point. It might help you understand a little better.

If you maintain your current LBM of 105 lbs and end up with a BF% of say 22% you'd weight 128 lbs with 23 lbs of fat. While it's not your goal of 105 lbs it would be a weight that you would be lean at. To give you an example a woman with 20% BF weighing in at 150 lbs would be a lot smaller and more compact than one weighing 150 lbs with 30% BF.

Only time will tell just what your end size will be, but I can tell you that getting there with more lean mass will result in a higher metabolism and a body able to handle a lot more food while still staying slim.

HTH
Nat

Whatever the numbers turn out to be, it is highly unlikely - no, impossible to lose lean body mass on an LC diet because it contains adequate protein. One loses lean body mass when one's diet does not have enough protein. The body begins to take protein out of the muscles for fuel. But we have arranged to have the body use stored fat for energy and also to have enough protein coming in each day so that there might even be extra, rather than barely enough. Also, I'm pretty sure that the LBM also contains bones and organs.

Nat (as always) is right. Your size may be much smaller on LC at a higher weight, than someone losing on a low fat diet. I know I was 2 sizes bigger at this weight on the way up, than I am now on the way down.

Your body will decide how much fat it wants to lose and you might even increase your LBM if you exercise. You certainly will not lose LBM on an LC diet. Don't sweat the numbers because you haven't seen the end result yet.

Yes, Barb, is right. LBM is everything other than fat. This is partly why older people have a higher BF% range than younger people (and certain ethnicities have higher/lower ranges as well) - bone density factors into the equation.

Nat

Thanks, Nat and Barb! I am glad to know that I won't lose much, if any, LBM on this diet. I wanna be firm and compact, not mushy and jiggly! Also, I've started working out my muscles for about 20 mins/4-5x week, so I may even gain some lean mass in the form of muscle tissue!

So I think I will change my goal to around 120-125 lbs instead of 105 as my "ballpark figure", or pretty much whatever weight I'm slender and firm at -- I'd rather have a firm body and be a size 8 than have a somewhat flabby size 4 figure!

Thanks again for you help. I'm really glad I figured out my approx. LBM, it showed me how off my goal of 105 was!

Hi Dollygrrl,

Your calculations at your goal of 105 lb should be expected and are correct.



You will lose lean body mass for several reasons.

1. As you gained weight your lean body mass increased in order to carry and support that weight. This amount of muscle will not be required as you lose weight. The body automatically adjust for your new weight.

2. As you gained weight your body was placed in an anabolic metabolic condition (building). This is the method used by professional bodybuilders. They eat to maintain an anabolic metabolic condition to build muscle and burn off the carbs to prevent fat gain.

3. In a weight losing mode your body will enter a catabolic condition (tearing down). Therefore, it is very hard to prevent the loss of some lean body mass.

The low carb diet is much better than other diets for preserving LBM. I found my LBM to remain pretty much constant during my recent loss of 15 pounds on a diet of high protein, restricted fat, restricted calories and very low carbs. My carbs for the last two months were sometimes less than 10 gm. after subtracting fiber in order achieve weight loss. They are always less than 20 gm. Be sure to take your essential oils. I take Carlson's lemon flavored cod liver oil for Omega-3 and use almond oil for Omega-6 with red-wine vinegar on salads. A moderate amojnt of natural fat on meats is OK but avoid large quantities of bacon, cheese, etc.

Essentially, I have been on induction for 8 weeks and expect to continue in order to drop a few more pounds of fat.

Good luck,
Kent

Actually, it is pretty easy. Eat enough protein to sustain your LBM (roughly 1g per lb of current body weight), workout consistently with heavy enough weights to recruit active muscle fibers (both slow and fast twitch by varying reps, sets and weight), eat several smaller meals throughout the day so that muscles are constantly being supplied with the amino acids they require and do not have to resort to eating your hard earned muscle, and keep carbs at a level that allows you to do all this.

Dolly, it is very likely that you will build on your 105 lbs of lean mass. It is also possible that you can lose a few lbs of it - but if you are new to weight lifting it is less likely than if you had been doing resistance work for years. Newbies to weight lifting can experience dramatic losses in body fat and gains in muscle mass at the same time - this doesn't last though - so enjoy it now

Nat

Kent~ I had heard that overweight people have more lean mass b/c they need to carry more weight around. Thanks for the clarification.

And Nat, thanks a bunch for the tips on preserving my LBM. I've decided that, if at all possible, I want to try and keep as much as possible of my 105 lbs of lean body mass. I'd rather weigh more but have more LBM, as it (especially muscle!) burns up more calories!

I am a grazer, so the small meals thing should be no problem, and I'll try and keep my protien intake at the right level. And since I am new to weight training (I am such a wimp now! ), hopefully I will make up for any lost muscle by adding new muscle.

And I have just one more question -- is water weight LBM or fat mass? I know I will lose at least 6 lbs of water, and was wondering what "category" it falls under. TIA!

OK Nat,

I understand and agree with your statements about bodybuilding, but that doesn't seem to apply to Dollygrrl. She has a beginning LBM of 105 lb. and has set a total weight goal of 105 lb. Her calculations were correct for that goal and her LBM loss should be expected. Your suggestion of keeping and even trying to increase her LBM does not computer with her goal.

Most people have a good idea what their ideal weight should be based on past experience before gaining weight. If Dollygrrl want to hold her beginning 105 lb. LBM and drop to 20% fat she would have reset her final goal at 131 lb.

Achieving a bodybuilder's physic takes many hours a day in the gym and a top priority of life. Even then, many people simply don't have the type of body to achieve big growth and others are just naturally very muscular.

I would like to see your results, but your stats do not have the weight shown that is necessary to do so. Have you been able to hold or gain LBM since your starting LC?

Kent

Hi Dollygrrl,

My understanding is that LBM is muscle, bone, water and everything except the fat.

Kent

Kent, if you re read Dolly's initial message she was wondering if her number were correct - and yes, you're right, she was correct. But she was also questioning the value of losing 23 lbs of lean body mass. Which she was right to do - you don't want to be sacrifcing that for the sake of a lower scale weight (at least IMHO you don't).

I believe from her more recent posts she has re evaluated her final goal with the aim of keeping all the LBM she currently has, and perhaps growing some more



This may seem like it's true, but it just isn't. There is little benefit of being in the gym for hours every day - it is actually quite counter productive. The majority of people who tend to spend hours working out 6 or 7 days a week keep at it because they are not seeing results. They are not seeing results because they spend so much time in the gym. It's a Catch-22.

Yes, some of us are naturally more muscular than others - genetics most certainly plays a role in this. However, it is possible to transform one's body without moving out of your home and into a gym Muscle growth happens when you rest, in the time inbetween working out.

Have you read through Trainerdan's Story in the success stories forum? His is the classic case of someone who was told he could not transform his shape. I think we'll all agree that this isn't the case. To top it off, he recently revealed that he is a diabetic.

Many of us (lowcar.ca members) who have and are currently following the BFL training program have and are in the process of changing our shapes. We spend three 45 minute sessions lifting weights and three 20 minute sessions doing some kind of cardio (interval training). I don't think you'll find anyone following this program who'll tell you it's excessive. It amounted to a lot less time spent working out for me than what I had been doing prior to BFL.

My stats do not show my weight because they are numbers that are irrelevant to me - the fact that I have lost in excess of 80 lbs of fat and gained 15-20 lbs of lean mass is lost when the scale is used as a frame of reference. It means more to me that I have gone from barely being able to wear a size 20 to fitting into my size 12 wardrobe again. And like you it means a lot to me that my blood profile has improved and that my blood pressure has come down.

Nat

Kent and Dolly (and anyone reading) if you'd like some very recent indication of what a few hours a week of weight lifting can do for your LBM and your body fat have a quick read here

Niky's results

Nat

Thanks for the link to that Journal, Nat! Very inspirational, I love browsing people's journals here.

And Kent, thanks for the info. Since I will undoubtedly lose some water wight too, this is helpful to know.