It's common knowledge now that the body uses a self-defense mechanism when not given adequate carbs. Tricking the body into thinking it's starving so that it acquires it's main source of fuel from fat. It's a deception. The body doesn't know one is on a "diet" and sets off into survival mode.

Low-Carbing to the point of ketosis forces the body into survival mode. Survival Mode. How long is it suitable for the body to be in this burn fat or die mode?

Lets just hope we all have strong healthy livers. Yes, I know....no one has ever proven that ketones in the blood put an unhealthy strain on the liver.

Bottom line: your body is in a constant state of self-defense.

I always thought of it the other way around

You're body store fat when you eat all sorts of carbs and sugar, so the body thinks it's starving and stores all the fat on your body as a survival mechanism.

When you start eating healthy, poviding your body with healthy doses of protein and fat, avoiding all kinds of sugar, and junk processed foods, just adding vegetables, your body feels healthy and starts to elease all the excess body fat.

That's the way all humans ate all along, unil refined processed carbs were introduced.

So which one sounds more like a deception?

Wa'il

Hi Fodus,

I am impressed.

What you’ve just articulated was eloquent, lucid, and very well thought out. The concept of self-defense has always put me in a state of unease especially when I realize that it’s being forced upon me unwittingly—even by an eating philosophy, of all things.

The words “burn fat or die mode” has been permanently engraved into my mind. Or, as per the hilarious Nike commercial, “scorched into my retina.”

Whenever I read something as thought provoking, I’m always reminded of an old adage, “a moment to make, and a lifetime to break.” With that in mind, you’ve convinced me completely. I have decided to give up on limiting my carbs and hope that I will have engendered enough good will with my body so it doesn’t opt to “die” on me.

With a look to the past, and a nod to the future,

Deceived No Longer

LOL!

It also used to be "common knowledge" that the world was flat and that the earth was the center of the universe.
Common knowledge does not equate to truth.

Studies, please, not opinion .

If forcing your body to burn its fat stores is a bad thing, either through lack of carbs so it has to burn fat, or caloric deficit or both, then all diets that work this way (and that would pretty much encompass all of them) are bad. I don't think you'll find one serious doctor or health professional that will tell you that burning body fat (and that's exactly what weight loss entails by any method) is bad for you or puts undue stress on the body.
Second; fat burning mode does not last forever. When one reaches goal weight, one moves on to maintainance levels of both calories and carbs which if you were following the plan correctly, you should nearly be at by the time you reach that point.
Last....the body does not go into "survival mode" or "starvation mode" as long as there are adequate calories coming in to support basal metabolism. It's only when caloric intake drops below that point (which is about 10 times idea body weight) that the body begins to lower metabolism in response. Whether it be from fat or carbs, as long as the body has enough calories, it doesn't care where it's getting its fuel supply from.

Let's hope so, or we'd all be quickly overwhelmed with infection and die (it's called a healthy functioning immune system).

Everyone seems to answer my questions with some oddball sense of wit. I guess the answer is "no one really knows for sure if this is healthy." Answering my questions and my search for what is right with sarcasm is, I'm the first to admit, funny, but just not helpful. I came to this board to learn more about low-carbing but I've run into the writers of theonion.com.

Sorry to let you down but that stuff you learned in high school about Columbus being the only one who thought the earth was round is just not true. Any educated man at that point in time was well aware the earth was round. Look it up.

It's difficult to think of a lifetime with limited access to all fruits, complex grains, and sugars.

I have an interesting question. Take a person with a normal metabolism at a normal weight. Feed him/her with a steady diet of carbs and lots and lots of fats. Steak, pork, cream, lard, eggs, butter, duck, buffalo balls (kidding), and huge amounts of grease. Ooops, I forgot my question.

Here's another question: I have a two year old baby who has a little body fat on him. I was thinking of starting him on an all-bacon diet. Would this be a good thing? Since ketosis is the natural human state of being.

Hello again Fodus,

“Sorry to let you down but that stuff you learned in high school about Columbus being the only one who thought the earth was round is just not true. Any educated man at that point in time was well aware the earth was round. Look it up.”

I don’t dispute this, naturally. We’re not endeavoring to engage in revisionist history here, but merely to take something from which to draw a parallel. Think of it as an effort to place the future into the service of the present. The similarity is that back then—as it is now—the establishment, both educated and otherwise, believed the world was flat, which had been the historical dogma since the inception of primitive deductive reasoning to the then relative scientific thoughts of the 14th century. Becoming isolated, being berated, and often ridiculed was the price for conviction one paid for being a lone individual dissenter and independent thinker, as Columbus et al were.

“It's difficult to think of a lifetime with limited access to all fruits, complex grains, and sugars.”

The key concept here is “limited” and not “none”. A common misperception of proponents for the high carb/low fat view is that the low carb view means no carb. Equally, I would argue that for some of us, it is just as challenging to embrace a lifetime of limited access to fatty meats, cheese, rich cream, and the variety of fat foods which we naturally find both delectable and exquisite to our palates.

“Here's another question: I have a two year old baby who has a little body fat on him. I was thinking of starting him on an all-bacon diet.”

I see you’ve a natural flair for posing questions of diametric extremes. I’m first to admit that it is very funny, but as you so artfully put it, “not helpful”? LOL It is sort of akin to asking a violinist, if you must, would you prefer to sever your right arm, or your left one? Let me ask you this, if I may. In Fodus-ese, if you could only choose one, would you opt to place your two-year old boy on an all bacon diet? Or, an all granulated sugar diet?

And, finally, in my view, sarcasm is the highest form of wit, but lowest form of intellect. Perhaps, there are times when we’re more one than the other.

With kindest regards,

Frederick

My point, dear Fodus, is that what is considered "common knowledge" may or may not be true or fact. It's equivalent to saying, "everyone knows..." to support a point which you cannot back up with fact or proof. If something that is incorrect is repeated 1 million times, that will not change it into a correct statement or make it truth simply in the repeating of it or by the number of people that believe it and repeat it in turn.




Which of the studies and articles that you have been presented with so far did you find unhelpful? I did quite a bit of searching last night and couldn't find a single study to support your first statement in this thread. If you have one, please feel free to post it; studies, not opinion.




Carbs and fat are not what low carbing is about. Fat, yes. Carbs, no. At least not in the quantities that most people are accustomed to consuming. What low carb encourages, if you look past the 2 week induction phase of one plan, is lots of vegetables low in carbs and high in nutrients and antioxidants along with healthy fats and adequate amounts of protein. Even the induction phase of Atkins requires a minimum of 3 servings of veggies daily. Currently, I average 5-6 servings of vegetables daily and occasionally some fruits and this on 30 grams of carbs per day.




I think Frederick addressed this question nicely. An all-bacon diet would not be low carb and there isn't a single low carb plan that I can think of that consists of nothing but meats processed with nitrates, although there are cultures (the Inuit) who existed on primarily seal and whale meat and blubber, including all children who were weaned. Dr. Atkins also discourages the use of meats containing nitrates (health concerns from the nitrates) and enourages instead consumption of unprocessed meats. Dr. Atkins also does not recommend induction levels of carb for for children under 12, but again I don't think you'd find a single health professional that is all in favor of kids eating all the junk food and sugar that they can get their hands on. My kids are 7 and 8 and and follow a carb restricted program that includes lots of veggies, fruits, nuts, cheese, yogurt and whole grains in moderation which usually averages out to about 125 grams of carb per day; much lower than the average of 300 or more mostly coming from high fructose corn syrup, and transfats. Am I depriving them and causing them ill health by not allowing them to gobble sugar by the pound and keeping hydrogenated and transfats out of their diets?



Unless you care absolutely nothing about your health, restriction of one type of food or another is going to be a necessity. You can't have your cake and eat it too if you want to remain healthy. The question becomes what are you going to limit your access to? Sugar, highly refined starches and hydrogenated fats or proteins and healthy fats? There isn't a single vitamin, mineral or nutrient found in fruit that cannot be obtained through vegetables, sometimes in better quantity (potassium for example). The same principle applies to grains and there is absolutely no nutritive value to sugar at all; it just tastes good. So good, in fact, that millions of men, women and children have unwittingly become addicted to it. There are essential proteins and essential fatty acids, there are even essential vitamins and minerals, but there are no essential carbs or sugars.

If you're truly interested in information about low carb, go down to your local library and get a book (or several) on low carb plans and see what the authors have to say beyond the weight loss phase, which in the lives of most people following the plans is not forever. I say several because each author gives a different perspective and references different studies and articles. The studies and supporting documentation are well noted in the books by footnotes. Read the whole book as well as the referenced studies and articles and base your decision on that; not the opinions of those who stand to lose a great deal if low carb ever becomes mainstream.

Well said, LisaN, very well said!!

I doubt you're on a search, you've made up you're mind Otherwise, you wouldn't see other's polite response as sarcasm.

My reply was very serious, and not meant as sarcasm. Didn't see any other sarcastic responses either.

So if you are really on a search, open up your mind, and you may be able to read the other side's opinion in a different light, without taking every other opinion than yours as sarcasm.

Just my $0.02.

Wa'il

Thanks for the funny follow-up Frederick. At first, I didn't know what to think of you and your sarcasm. Seems like some of your audience completely missed the boat. Anyhow, I think you're quite witty. I do tend to be a bit dramatic on the example front but it's mostly terrible sarcasm, which you obviously picked right up on. "Baby bacon diet." I understand your point about the all bacon or all sugar diet. It was a good one. Once again we all have to listen to the adage, "Everything in moderation." Hell, even too much exercise can kill you.

I understood the flat earth reference the first time around, it's just more fun to poke fun at the Columbus round earth thing.....
I googled Columbus.....
http://www.id.ucsb.edu/fscf/library.../FlatEarth.html

I know the low-carb diet works for many people and that's all that matters.

Well, yes and no. Yes it works for many people, but no that is not all that matters to most of the people here.

If your search for information about lo-carb diets brought you here to ask "Is this diet healthy?" Then you have come to the right place and there is a lot of experience, information, and results to be found.

If you are suggesting, by that statement, that people here only care about losing weght and not about overall health, I think you will find that you are wrong. Most people here are very concerned about their health and many of them experience an "adjustment period" of uneasiness when they begin low-carbing, as they switch over from a low-fat mentality.

In fact, I would bet that people here are more up to date on new literature about heart disease, cholesteral, high blood pressure, diabetes, insulin, syndrome X and other medical issues, than a typical low-fat dieter.

But what we are all finding out, via this site, via new information, new studies, and our own experience, is that this does appear to be a healthy, happy way to live. The establishment is catching on. Its true that they may not be jumping onto the uber-low-carb bandwagon, but reccomendations to cut back on refined starches and sugars are everywhere these days.

Read the books, give it a shot. You can always go back to low-fat.

[QUOTE]It's common knowledge now that the body uses a self-defense mechanism when not given adequate carbs. Tricking the body into thinking it's starving so that it acquires it's main source of fuel from fat. It's a deception. [QUOTE]

Yes it is a deception. Througout the world and for millions of years, there are seasons (winter/dry season) when no carbs are readily available.
When you don't eat carbs, you trick your body into thinking that it's winter and we should our stored fat reserves.

When you eat carbs you deceive your body into thinking that it is mid-summer to early fall, and we better pack on as much fat as possible as soon as posible because winter is coming.

danny

Here's another question: I have a two year old baby who has a little body fat on him. I was thinking of starting him on an all-bacon diet. Would this be a good thing? Since ketosis is the natural human state of being. [/B][/ QUOTE]

Where is all this venom coming from? Has someone who eats low-carb harmed you in some way?
Everyone knows that a 2 year old needn't be on a low-carb eating plan. And why, when someone wants to criticize low-carbing, do they always accuse us of eating too much bacon? I have been eating low-carb for 2 months and haven't eaten one piece of bacon. I don't like it, therefore I don't eat it. Dr. Atkins himself doesn't promote the unlimited eating of bacon-he says right in his book that the preservatives in it are harmful and it should be eaten every moderately.

However, refined sugar and flour aren't healthy for our bodies, no matter what our age. Perhaps, fodus8, you should read up on the way of eating you are so angry about (low-carbing) before you start your ranting on this forum.
I can't believe anyone would go thru all the trouble to register just to post such antagonizing, ignorant blather!

You googled Columbus? Well done! Now try looking at Aristotle - he knew the earth was round as early as 360BC.