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  #46   ^
Old Tue, May-09-06, 05:16
zippity zippity is offline
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Posts: 3
 
Plan: i don't.
Stats: 135/135/175 Male 6' 3"
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristine
I don't think you'd have to be kidding. He's not a LCer... yet he felt compelled to register here and comment. This thread was a year and a half old and would have been on page 9 or so. I wonder what his search keywords were to come up with this thread. "Low risers?" "Bellies?"

Call me a kill-joy, but even though his comments sound nice, I'd have to wonder if they're coming from a spirit of genuine kindness or creepy fetishism.


it's okay - i've been being misunderstood and eyed with suspicion by most Women for the better (or rather, the longer) part of 42 years. i hold many unconventional points of view (many of which pertain to Women) and often express my views with great passion, and that's not a combination calculated to set culturally-indoctrinated Feminine minds at ease.

the truth of me is complex, but to try to put concisely those parts that influenced my post here: my tastes in the physical Woman are different from, and in some cases precisely the opposite of, those espoused by the common man and broadcast incessantly throughout our culture (and accepted by most Women) as being the one and only physical ideal, and it frustrates the &$#~?! out of me to see Women buying this line of B.S. (which is invariably linked directly to this and that line of products) hook, line and sinker and running around knocking themselves out, starving themselves, having cosmetic surgery, and otherwise &$#~?!ing with their bodies and minds in their efforts to rid themselves of physical characteristics i love and find incredibly sexy. Women spend huge amounts of time and effort and money trying to achieve flat bellies. well guess what: i don't find a flat belly anywhere near as attractive as one that isn't. and i was never so aware of this fact as i became when i started seeing beautiful, fit young Women walking around downtown with their fat little bellies sticking out between the bottoms of their short shirts and the tops of their low-rise jeans - without being all self-conscious and self-deprecatory about it, but rather very confident and secure in their sexiness. these Women were owning their sexiness - and a Woman's sexiness is a huge part of Her power - and i found that, and find it, more refreshing than i can easily express.

Women spend thousands of dollars - millions, collectively, i'm sure - to damage their bodies with cosmetic surgery in their efforts to make themselves appear to have huge, spherical, thoroughly unnatural-looking breasts. well guess what: nothing takes my breath away in that department like the sight of a perfectly flat-chested Woman in some form-fitting top. my knees go weak. i want to fall down and worship at Her body. yeah, i know, You think it sounds superficial, but we're talking about physical characteristics here - and our attraction to Your physical characteristics is one of the holds You have on us, and one for which You should be grateful. it's an aspect of Feminine power. but, like many powerful and attractive physical characteristics, You're conditioned to view it with disdain by men who fear Your power over them and want You to turn away from it, rather than toward it.

oh jeez...i told You it's complex. okay...to simplify:

- You have it drilled into Your heads that the only sexy belly is a flat belly. i feel the opposite. so Your buying that line is frustrating to me.

- You have it drilled into Your heads that the only sexy breasts are large breasts (partly because men who feel otherwise tend to have too much discretion to belch out their views on the matter on prime-time television). i feel the opposite. so Your buying that line is frustrating to me.

- big butts? "unsightly" panty lines? same thing. a small butt is a MASCULINE trait. why the hell would a straight man want to look at that?? panty lines call attention to the Feminine shape (and lack of masculine smallness) of Your butt. they're viciously sexy. who tells You they're not? people selling girdles that make Your ass look like it's made out of hard plastic - like it's NOT HUMAN. no industry is going to tell You that You look hot as You are, because You do that naturally - without the aid of any aftermarket product. You don't have to buy anything to look natural...so there are vast industries whose survivals depend on convincing You that Nature and beauty are mutually exclusive; that beauty must be bought.

oh boy. this is all disjointed and i'm sure i'm not done but it's now quarter to seven in the morning and i have to sleep. i just hope some smart Woman can decipher what i've said here and see it as i mean it rather than however it may sound. what i'm saying is not much different from what Divina99 is saying...i'm just saying it from a different (and male, and thus often sexually-charged) perspective, and that tends to freak Women out (sorry, Mesdames, but that's what it is to be male - we're slaves to our sexual desires...which means we're slaves to YOU, which is precisely what all the aforementioned industries and our culture on the whole are striving to prevent You from realizing).

argh. must sleep. somebody just open Your mind and *think* about all this, please? the world would be a much different, and i believe a much better and healthier, place if Women would just understand and assume their rightful place in it. the patriarchal establishment has a vested interest in Your *not* doing this, so it will be an uphill battle for a long time yet...but Your winning could save the Earth before those who currently have the greatest influence kill it altogether.

oh yes, i should have shut up a while back. goodnight.
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  #47   ^
Old Tue, May-09-06, 05:33
Meg_S Meg_S is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,276
 
Plan: lots of meat
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 5 10"
BF:goal: 17%
Progress: 41%
Location: Germany (Canadian abroad)
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I have to say Zippity's attitude seems a lot healthier than the one that likes women.. grown mature women to look like boys with ballons on their chests. I don't think the economy could handle too many people with that attitude though. Too many men and women would start to feel comfortable and sexy and stop the crazy drive to look that way.. too many women... ditto.. and then men would come around eventually
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  #48   ^
Old Tue, May-09-06, 07:04
zippity zippity is offline
New Member
Posts: 3
 
Plan: i don't.
Stats: 135/135/175 Male 6' 3"
BF:
Progress:
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i'm back. briefly. i was just thinking about what i wrote and felt a couple more things needed clarification. and i'm going to try to make this brief.

first, in my zeal i will sometimes make a point at the expense of diplomacy, and i feel i've done that here. i don't mean to dis flat bellies or small butts as unattractive - they're not. i myself have felt very strong physical attractions to some rail-thin Women. what i mean to say is that the range of attractive physical configurations is in actuality much, much wider than marketing mouthpieces would have You believe. yes, flat bellies are sexy. yes small butts are sexy. but so are convex bellies and non-small butts. it's *all* good. for every type of body and body part, there's somebody who's crazy attracted to it. and what turns one guy off is exactly what makes the guy standing next to him as turned-on as he can be.

and the most important point that i barely touched on is that - at least for me - none of these physical traits stands by itself: what makes a person really attractive is the attitude, the confidence, and the personality that bind it all together. yes, the physical person is extremely attractive - most Women would probably be astonished at the impact the sight of a certain body or physical trait can have on a man. it can run really deep, resonate deep in our souls like a really powerful piece of music. that's why we're so affected by sex and the Female body and all that - because it does resonate right down into the core of our being. You think it's all superficial, that for us to place so much importance on Your body equates with "objectifying" You - and i suppose some men do that, or act like they're doing that, or think they're doing that - but i know from being a man and from talking with a lot of others that for many of us, Your bodies are nothing less than holy, and to make love to You is to worship at the altar of the highest Deity we know. but that depth, that significance is not something that we can find in the physical person as an entity detached and isolated from the essential, non-physical person. the physical and non-physical You are interdependent, and so is their significance to us.

oh, and blah blah blah. i'm getting less clear as i go instead of more, so i should stop. but just please bear in mind that the physical Woman is not independent, in our minds and hearts, from the non-physical Woman. reading a lot of really good literature, or expanding Your range of experience so You have a lot of interesting things to talk about, will do more to make You attractive to those around You than will all the dieting and working out You can do in three lifetimes. and Your body - no matter what kind of shape it's in - will just be icing on the cake.

okay. goodnight now really.

oh, and thank You, Ms. Meg - You're right, of course.

Last edited by zippity : Tue, May-09-06 at 07:11.
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  #49   ^
Old Wed, Jun-07-06, 11:40
Galliard Galliard is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 108
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 215/167/165 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 96%
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What a treat to read all these posts! I finally caved in to fashion a couple of months ago and bought a pair of low-rise, boot-cut jeans (fairly modest, actually, and not tight!). My husband liked them but every time I caught my reflection in a store window I felt huge! I have a long, narrow waist and big hips and the old-style jeans are so much more flattering. Anyway, after reading these posts I went home and dug out my old jeans and put them on and they feel so comfortable and I think they look so much better! So maybe I look dowdy and dated, but at least I look slim(mer)!
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  #50   ^
Old Thu, Jun-08-06, 15:19
HairOnFire's Avatar
HairOnFire HairOnFire is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 489
 
Plan: Carbs not
Stats: 159/124/130 Female 67 inches
BF:Playing the field
Progress: 121%
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Low rise jeans are just more flattering and more comfortable. I'll never go back to wearing high-waisted pants (do they even sell them anymore??).

At my heaviest weight last year, I wore low-rise jeans with tops over the waistband, not tucked in. This takes care of the problem of the "spilling over" thing. After just three weeks of LC-ing, I'm already back in my size 8 Gap low-rise white jeans with a T-shirt tucked in (still working on the arms, though, so I wear 3/4 sleeves ).

Thank you, Dr. Atkins!
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  #51   ^
Old Sat, Jun-10-06, 09:49
waywardsis's Avatar
waywardsis waywardsis is offline
Dazilous
Posts: 2,657
 
Plan: NeanderkIF
Stats: 140/114/110 Female 5 feet 2 inches
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Toronto, ON
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Hell, wear what looks good on YOU. I'm short and short-waisted, and jeans with too low a rise make my legs look like stumps. Who gives a crap what anyone else is wearing? Caveat: pants look best when the waistband sits BELOW your navel! On everyone! Doesn't have to be miles below, but below.

Zippity - I love ya My BF loves my belly too. I am working on loving it. I will get there someday.

Here in Canada, Dove has a new campaign (soap, shampoo, etc) that features 'normal' women - women of all shapes and sizes, colours and ages; women with bellies, butts, hips, thighs, freckles, grey hair, big noses, big ears...in short, REAL WOMEN. I can't tell you how fantastic it is to drive down the highway and see a huge billboard with women who look like me (short and soft) on it! And they are always smiling and looking happy - not pouting and looking a) stoned b) hungry c) painfully orgasmic. They are calling it their "Campaign for Real Beauty", and, driven by dollars or not, it's a huge step in the right direction IMO, esp for young girls.

Tangent: Women are always being told they suck: too smelly, oily, hairy, pimply, dry, fat etc. How many men do you know that have a cabinet full of skin care products? Not many, I'm sure. How many companies would admit that what you eat has more to do with the health of your skin that what you scrub it with? None, I'm sure (unless they were also selling products, a la Dr. Perricone). I see your frustration, Zippity, because I feel it too with myself and with other women. We buy into this ~#*! I mean, come on...why are we pretty much the only species where the man is the less colourful one?
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  #52   ^
Old Mon, Jun-12-06, 06:46
highsteaks's Avatar
highsteaks highsteaks is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 584
 
Plan: General LC
Stats: 240/235/155 Female 5' 9"
BF:
Progress: 6%
Location: UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waywardsis
Who gives a crap what anyone else is wearing? Caveat: pants look best when the waistband sits BELOW your navel! On everyone! Doesn't have to be miles below, but below.

Here in Canada, Dove has a new campaign (soap, shampoo, etc) that features 'normal' women - women of all shapes and sizes, colours and ages; women with bellies, butts, hips, thighs, freckles, grey hair, big noses, big ears...in short, REAL WOMEN. I can't tell you how fantastic it is to drive down the highway and see a huge billboard with women who look like me (short and soft) on it! And they are always smiling and looking happy - not pouting and looking a) stoned b) hungry c) painfully orgasmic. They are calling it their "Campaign for Real Beauty", and, driven by dollars or not, it's a huge step in the right direction IMO, esp for young girls.

Tangent: Women are always being told they suck: too smelly, oily, hairy, pimply, dry, fat etc. How many men do you know that have a cabinet full of skin care products? Not many, I'm sure. How many companies would admit that what you eat has more to do with the health of your skin that what you scrub it with? None, I'm sure (unless they were also selling products, a la Dr. Perricone). I see your frustration, Zippity, because I feel it too with myself and with other women. We buy into this ~#*! I mean, come on...why are we pretty much the only species where the man is the less colourful one?


I read an interesting review of the Dove ad campaign in Slate magazine. The writer was saying that the campaign will do really well at first, as women embrace the feel-good idea of "Real Beauty". But, he pointed out, long-term Dove will become the "fat girl brand", and ultimately sales will drop due to this association. What do you guys think?

I admire the effort to bring some reality to the world of beauty marketing.

On the topic of guys and love handles, I had a very interesting conversation with my wonderful man the other night. He was telling me that most guys don't find super skinny girls attractive. The guys who DO find skinny skinny girls hot tend to be a few things: more insecure (need a thin girlfriend as a social status symbol), more immmature (tend to be obnoxious and vocal - like catcalling), and, obviously, more superficial. Since these type of dude is louder about his preferences (he's more likely to be the guy in the bar making loud comments at skinny girls), these preferences are attributed to the majority of guys.

However, "good" guys - smart, well-educated, funny, down-to-earth, sensible - don't find the skin and bones thing attractive at all. They tend to prefer normal looking girls, slim and healthy and curvy, NOT skinny.


Regarding who gives a crap what anyone else is wearing...I think this thread is partly a fashion "Don't!". Basically, it's the information that the majority of people find skin spilling over the top of tight jeans unattractive. If, when you get dressed in the morning, you care about the way the rest of society will see you, that might be useful information.
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  #53   ^
Old Mon, Jun-12-06, 11:16
Wyvrn's Avatar
Wyvrn Wyvrn is offline
Dog is my copilot
Posts: 1,448
 
Plan: paleo/lowcarb
Stats: 210/162/145 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Olympia, WA
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Interesting comments about toiletries. We have four "beauty products" in the bathroom. Soap, coconut oil, toothpaste and deodorant. No shampoo, conditioner, body scrub, exfoliant, cosmetics, lotions, gels, etc etc. The soap is a locally hand-made and nicely scented "artisanal" soap, but it's the only product in the shower, and the only scented product in the room. I've found the simplicity is far more relaxing and luxurious than a huge clutter of products, no matter how expensive.

Wyv
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  #54   ^
Old Mon, Jun-12-06, 12:13
HairOnFire's Avatar
HairOnFire HairOnFire is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 489
 
Plan: Carbs not
Stats: 159/124/130 Female 67 inches
BF:Playing the field
Progress: 121%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
I'll just be glad when this low riser fashion has run it's course. We got over them 30 years ago, it'll happen again.


LOL! I look better now in low rise jeans than I did back in the 70s. But I am thankful the whole "elephant bell" thing died out.

So I hope low rise jeans stick around a while. I will never wear high-waisted pants again.
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  #55   ^
Old Tue, Jun-13-06, 11:25
waywardsis's Avatar
waywardsis waywardsis is offline
Dazilous
Posts: 2,657
 
Plan: NeanderkIF
Stats: 140/114/110 Female 5 feet 2 inches
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Toronto, ON
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Here we call it a 'muffin top' when you're puffing out over your waistband!

As for Dove becoming the 'fat girl' brand - I don't agree. The ads don't just show heavier women, they show all sorts of women. It's not about weight at all - it's about the diversity of beauty. I'm happy bc there's short chicks! Woo hoo!
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  #56   ^
Old Tue, Jun-13-06, 11:38
Samantha22's Avatar
Samantha22 Samantha22 is offline
7 yrs and counting!
Posts: 8,623
 
Plan: Vegan/Crossfit
Stats: 285/212/199 Female 5'7
BF:33.4%
Progress: 85%
Location: Seattle, WA
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I live in a resort area. The skin has already begun to appear. Just the other day i was driving with my bf and we both coudln't stop staring at this girl....her shorts were that of denim material...but they fit like underwear...lol. I mean...it was kinda crazy. But i'm the kinda person who'll tap my sis and go "oh god look over there"....but i also think that people are entitled to wear what they want...i just wish some people had better taste..that's all.
On topic..i've found that alot of times lowrise jeans are THE ONLY thing i can find in the stores...the last pair of jeans i bought..no lie....the zipper was only about an inch in length. I had no choice...it's all they had. But i do think it's important to pair them with the right shirt, and to get a size that fits.
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