I don't think I've ever started a War Zone thread before, but I have to rant about this.

Ever since Gary Taubes wrote that article Does Exercise Really Make Us Thinner?, we've had an explosion of people on these forums advocating against exercise.

Read the article, people. It doesn't say that exercise makes you *fatter*. It says that exercise doesn't necessarily make you thinner.

I'm not saying that the point Taubes makes isn't important. It is. Exercise is not the be-all & end-all road to slimness. If you indulge in exercise, you should be aware that you will likely get hungrier later, probably to the point where you eat enough to make up for the calories burned in the workout. It's not a licence to eat whatever you like. Exercise isn't mandatory for weight loss. You can lose weight without exercise, yes, it's true. People that feel guilty for not exercising can and should take comfort in that fact. It's one less reason to beat up on ourselves. We do too much of that already as overweight or obese people in this society.

But can we please stop trying to actively persuade people to stop working out if they want to? Can we please stop telling people they'd lose weight *faster* if they sit on their butts all day? Or worse, stay in bed?

Exercise has many good benefits, not the least of which is improved insulin sensitivity, which, in the long run might mean that exercise is good for weight loss, at least in a small part, after all. It's good for our heart health. It's a proven mood-enhancer, often people with low-grade depression get better relief from mild to moderate exercise than with anti-depressants. Resistance training helps with bone health.

Not deluding people into thinking that exercise will solve their weight problem is one thing. I applaud the dissemination of new and important information. But trying to discourage exercise and it's benefits seems is flat-out wrong. We don't go around this board telling people to keep smoking until they've lost their weight because most people that quit smoking gain some weight - that would be irresponsible. I think it's just as irresponsible to suggest that someone should not exercise if they want to.

Some ideas are just silly. Thinking that exercise is *bad* for you, is a silly idea.

Interestingly enough, Dr. Mike Eades addresses this in a response to his latest blog entry:

Given your comment about total energy expenditure, I’m wondering what you think of Taubes’ assertion that exercise doesn’t help weight loss. It seems as though it could make a big difference, especially if you are running a few miles a day and don’t add any more calories to your diet. I realize Taubes basically believes that exercise will just make you eat more. From my own experience, though, I’m not sure that’s true.

When Taubes said that exercise doesn’t help weight loss he made a distinction that most people didn’t pick up on. He said that exercise as typically prescribed - i.e., to move a little more, to walk 20 minutes, etc. - doesn’t help weight loss. And the medical literature backs him up. When people are put on these fairly gentle regimens and are compared to others who don’t follow the protocol, they don’t lose any more weight. More intense exercise - running a few miles per day, for example - is a different story, and Gary would be the first to agree.

Exactly. And since most of us on this forum are in various states of "overweightness" most of us can't really do these intense workouts required to really work weighloss vise.

The main thing I've gotten from all the discussion on this board is: If you are ONLY exercising to lose weight AND you don't like doing it, you don't have to feel really guilty for not doing it.

Exercising for your health is a whole differnt thing and I think both Dr. Taubes and the people on this forum advocte that.

While I do agree that we shouldn't specifically discourage exercise per se, I also agree with this - if someone is exercising yet not enjoying it, continuing isn't necessarily going to add much benefit long-term....my main reason for this thinking is that when one really doesn't enjoy something, in time, they're going to grow resentful and quit anyway, perhaps losing the later opportunity, after they've lost weight, to give it a go again, at a lower weight. When one has a bunch of weight to lose, it's often difficult to really get into exercise and/or activity - later, as weight is shed and they feel better and have the energy to do more, they will do more.

That said, I'm also one of those folks who simply abhors the idea of being a gerbil on a wheel going nowhere at a gym....yet, I've never been sedentary, even at my fattest. The activities I engage in are those I really like and like to do not for "exercise" but pleasure, it's fun! And, at least in my experience, it is true that as the weight is lost, you do have more energy to do more and sometimes feel absolutely compelled to do something....just move....and with or without conscious effort you wind up moving more anyway.

Is exercise beneficial? Absolutely....and IMO it really doesn't matter if it's structured/formal exercise routine or just day-to-day activities/sports you like....it does have health benefits beyond weight loss; but if you're not yet at a point where it's comfortable, enjoyable or you're feeling a benefit, then fine - wait - try again another time!

Sometimes the problem with addressing common misconceptions is that saying "A does not lead directly to B" does not also mean that "A does not lead to lead to B indirectly by way of Q, D and X, but only if A is in place with the following 14 conditions and the factors of D, L and M are not present."

Taubes's "Alternative Hypothesis" from the "eat less and exercise and you'll lose weight" read to me like, "Exercise might burn a few calories but in most it stimulates appetite, so merely exercising is not going to make the world thin". That doesn't mean that exercise is not good for OTHER reasons. Exercise that builds muscle is significantly great, for example. And even cardio for someone not used to it can do some of that, and can greatly increase flexibility, sense of well being, joint/ligament strength, etc. The increase in lean body mass and decrease in insulin resistance are both fantastic (more found in resistance training than cardio obviously) as a contribution to weight loss. But "walking 20 minutes each evening" is probably not gonna do jack for weight loss. That doesn't mean it won't improve your body and your health in some way. Just that promoting it as the cure-all for obesity -- the "Hypothesis" to which he offers an alternative -- is one that really NEEDS an alternative.

I think people should be encouraged to do whatever movement they feel comfortable with. As people get lighter, the desire to move, and the optimism to come up with reasons to do it (not gerbil racing, but from cooking to serious yard work, things that naturally pull a little more 'movement' into the live of sedentary people) increase naturally.

I actually think some of these women that are eating very low calorie and spending ages doing cardio and stalling are over-exercising and they really should back off. Do resistance training instead.

Agreed. I can't think of anything better than distance running to aid weight loss.

Running is not as hard as you think. Even very large people can condition themselves to run ala "Biggest Loser."

20 minutes walking on the treadmill is better than nothing as it at least helps cardiovascular conditioning. If you break a sweat you are conditioning your heart. If you are pouring sweat for an extended period of time, then you will be burning fat and stimulating the release of endorphins that will make you feel wonderful afterwards.

It is DANGEROUS for obese people to run. It can cause all sorts of ankle and knee stress & injuries, especially if you run on asphalt (the pavement or the road).

I heard a saying that I find so true: "The only people who gain anything from jogging or running are knee surgeons."I agree wholeheartedly with Nancy. I would recommend strength training any day. THAT is somethong even very heavy people CAN do.

Wrong. Sorry. There was a study where they took average people (some over weight) and trained them to RUN MARATHONS. The result? Most of the women they trained did not lose weight, but in fact, gained.

(Now...I need to find that study...or put on my asbestos underwear )

That being said, I LIKE exercise. It can be fun...water aerobics and belly dance are 2 of my favorites. But when I was going to the gym, exercising an hour a day, 6 days a week for 2 YEARS I never lost a pound and I started having problems with my knee.

If you start low carbing, I think a lot of people SPONTANEOUSLY start to exercise because they finally have energy and just feel so damn good.

But if you are seriously overweight, starting to jog or something like that is going to do more harm to your joints than good to your body. If you are 350 lbs.....relax, stay in bed and drop your weight with low carb until you get to 250 if you can get away with it (most can't because we have to earn a living or at least feed the damn cats). THEN start biking or hiking or swimming. Once you reach 'onederland', then it makes sense to start running marathons if you want.

Sometimes it is just plain stupid to exercise. Anyone watch Work Out on Bravo? Only took a couple of workouts for a woman in her high 200's to tear up her knee. Jumping jacks, jogging on the beach....what they hell were they thinking?

Running is far less impact than jumping jacks, so they really can't be compared. Running can absolutely be done safely at higher weights. I know that I gained weight when I started running longer distances (3-5 miles per run) and I definitely had to cut back to lose weight again. This is a reality for many people and if you check out the Runner's World forum you will find it is a much-discussed phenomenon among both smaller and bigger people. It is a huge shock for most people that they do not lose whilst training for long distance racing. Everybody is different and I do know people who just shed pounds while running, but it's not everybody's experience. Until you have tried running (and I ran at 235 pounds with no injuries whatsoever), please don't make judgements about what is possible or not possible. I have passed far thinner people and have also been passed by far heavier people in races.

If someone wants to lose weight more than they currently want to be exercising, what's wrong with concentrating on their current goal? I know so many dangerously heavy people who do cardio religiously who could really use this advice to just concentrate on weight for awhile. It is possible to be fit and fat, but if you want to be fit and thin, first you have to get the thin part down. And I want to be a thinner, faster runner, are you going to begrudge me my backing off on mileage to lose more weight?

I don't drive and have had periods in my life where walking 5-10 miles a day just to get around was completely normal and I just got fatter and fatter. Letting people know that it is OK to stop exercising to achieve their weigt goals does not seem so horrible to me.

Janine

The idiot trainer had her doing both, so hard to tell which one blew out her joints. In my case, I tried running while I was doing my 1 hour a day work outs and that had me hurting every time.

I tell seriously overweight people who want to incorporate exercise to do water aerobics. It's a lot harder to hurt yourself doing that

I just wanted to add that when I do long cardio sessions, I seem to hold on to my belly more. Belly fat = bad, so I am more than a little ambivalent about the kind of exercise most of us do. I'm still going to do my half-marathon this year, but is it the healthiest thing to do? I'm not conviced. My waist convinces me otherwise.

I think that a great deal of injury with running (or anything else) relates to the strength of the connective tissues and the smaller muscles. Some people have a pretty good muscular system.

I have muscle in some ways. But shifts sideways can nearly trip me to the ground, strain to the hip flexors in certain positions can as well, and although I can squat to get something off the floor, doing it properly on my heels makes my knees feel so terrified I don't dare. I think this simply means that while the primary main muscles are ok, the connective tissues, ligaments, and some of the smaller less-used muscles are not up to dealing with my weight.

There's always going to be things that some people can do... a friend's wife is 330 and on crutches because she's too heavy to walk, yet I weigh 375 and I can mow the lawn and walk around for a few hours at the stores -- people are different.

But the reality is that MOST people who are severely obese are at incredibly high risk of injury from rapid and impact exercise.

And the real problem is that most people tend to leap into exercise too rapidly. And most obese people at one point were thinner and, rather like ex druggies LOL, tend to overestimate what they can handle as a result.

Exactly PJ. Well said.

I agree with what Valerie, Regina and PJ say. There are benefits to exercise that have nothing to do with weight loss, may change insulin resistance over the long run but if you hate it you are not going to do it for anything other than short periods of your life. Frankly, if I have to use the word "exercise" to describe an activity then I need to just skip it. I ride a bike and go on bike rides, I do not exercise by riding bikes.

I am not going to start running, in part because I don't enjoy it, and in part because my knees and ankles have had the "benefit" of carrying over 300 pounds around for an extended number of years. The benefits include injury induced arthritis in my ankles and cartilage destruction in my knees. I think others who have benefit from gaining strength by carrying a lot of weight would do well to know what their benefits have been before attempting to run, particularly when you've heard "no pain, no gain" for 20 years.

What I worry about on the pro-aerobic side, particularly the "HIIT is very beneficial and you should try it" is that you take a fat, out of shape person who's been told they are a lazy slug and then tell that person to push themselves. Fine. Except that person is *predisposed* to think they don't make enough of an effort and *ignore* the warning signs from their body that they are pushing too hard. That happened to me. I got a heart rate monitor and discovered that doing low level aerobics, like Sansone's Walk Away The Pounds, had my heart rate going at dangerous levels. So I slowed down and built up to it. Not everyone builds up at the same rate, either -- my improvements were slow but steady and did not conform to any timetable I've seen.

I guess I see problems on both ends of the spectrum. Happy middle anyone?